Recruiting Forum: Football Talk VII

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#576
#576
jave36 said:
Schools are not businesses or professional sports teams. You could make that same argument for scholarship distribution, and that didn't seem to hold water.

The only way it could work is if a minor league system started where the teams were affiliated but now owned by the university, some sort of partnership. They could stil pay the school for the right to use the university name, and that could allow the athletic department to still be funded. That would be a massive undertaking, but some entrepreneurial person could give it a shot.
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I think it is going to be inevitable at some point that the entire system as we know it will undergo fundamental changes. It has developed into a billion dollar industry built on the backs of kids who are basically indentured servants.
 
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#577
#577
Ashevillevol said:
I think it is going to be inevitable at some point that the entire system as we know it will undergo fundamental changes. It has developed into a billion dollar industry built on the backs of kids who are basically indentured servants.
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If a quarter million spread over 4 years is an indentured servant where do I sign up? Ya'll act like businesses making money on their employees backs is a new thing. Where can 17-22 year olds make that kind of money?
 
#578
#578
BruinVol said:
You believe equals dollars should be spent on both sides regardless of where the money comes from??
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Has Title 9 actually been interpreted as equal dollars? All I know about it is females can't be denied benefits or participation.
 
#579
#579
Brett McMurphy (@McMurphyESPN) tweeted at 0:02 PM on Sat, Sep 21, 2013:
RT @GatorZoneFB: WR Demarcus Robinson will not play today due to violation of team rules. #UFvsUT
 
#580
#580
tim said:
Why not pay students for making good grades? I think its fine like it is.
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Well thats good and all that you think things are fine this way but obviously it isn't working. So according to you the NCAA should just shut our program down because some players took money to pay bills. If you don't agree with that last sentence then your just not making any sense. You can't say that things shouldn't change but they also shouldn't do anything to us for breaking the current rules.
 
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#581
#581
tim said:
Why not pay students for making good grades? I think its fine like it is.
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Well us normal students can get jobs and those jobs pay us real money so that we can take care of everything that a scholarship doesn't cover.

Football players have a job that is much more demanding of both time and their health. Guess how much they get paid for this job? 0

Since scholarship football players can't juggle an actual paying job and football I believe they should receive a some form io payment. Ironing out all the details and issues will be difficult but the current state of affairs is not fair
 
#582
#582
The best thing the NCAA could do to save themselves is to adapt the olympic model. Basically say that the schools are not allowed to give the athletes anything more than they are currently getting, but the athletes are free to make money off of their names and images. So a football player wouldn't be geting anything more from the university than the women but if someone wanted to pay them to sign autographs or do commercials then they could do that without being punished.
 
#583
#583
tim said:
If a quarter million spread over 4 years is an indentured servant where do I sign up? Ya'll act like businesses making money on their employees backs is a new thing. Where can 17-22 year olds make that kind of money?
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They aren't employees Tim. Why is it that someone like Johnny Manziel can't make money signing helmets or pictures if there is a market for it? But the NCAA sell his jersey on their own website for profit? I bet there could be some type of collaborative effort between the business/marketing colleges in the schools and the athletic depts. to develop products that people would buy and the players who generate the markets would get something for it. If the women's soccer team can generate thousands of dollars selling balls with the whole team signing then let them do it. Going with the idea that they shouldn't be treated any differently than any other student is not realistic. They don't generate revenue for the school. They are not stopped from getting jobs outside the school like scholarship athletes are. That isn't equal treatment.
 
#584
#584
volinexile17 said:
Has Title 9 actually been interpreted as equal dollars? All I know about it is females can't be denied benefits or participation.
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I have been apart of a process that involved a title 9 lawyer and officials from a school system.

Private donations were used to build facilities in baseball. The lawyer successfully argued that softball had to have same money spent for them even though private donations funded the project.

IMO clearly an example of what's wrong with title 9
 
#585
#585
JFBanicki said:
The best thing the NCAA could do to save themselves is to adapt the olympic model. Basically say that the schools are not allowed to give the athletes anything more than they are currently getting, but the athletes are free to make money off of their names and images. So a football player wouldn't be geting anything more from the university than the women but if someone wanted to pay them to sign autographs or do commercials then they could do that without being punished.
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If I was one these high profile players I would fight to have my name and image copyrighted.
 
#586
#586
BruinVol said:
Lol!!!!

Guessing sarcasm or you think he is worth 30pts
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No sarcasm. Objectivity goes out the door on gameday for this Vol fan. I honestly think Worley is bringing down the offense and a mobile QB will give us the spark we need to move the ball and get up early. If Florida is playing from behind, we can pull off the upset.
 
#587
#587
MockingVol said:
Well us normal students can get jobs and those jobs pay us real money so that we can take care of everything that a scholarship doesn't cover.

Football players have a job that is much more demanding of both time and their health. Guess how much they get paid for this job? 0

Since scholarship football players can't juggle an actual paying job and football I believe they should receive a some form io payment. Ironing out all the details and issues will be difficult but the current state of affairs is not fair
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Normal students dont get free tutors, free tuition, free room, free board and other freebies. So what is the argument? Free vs. not free? Cant get a job have to get a job? Again, I'll take the free.
 
#588
#588
MockingVol said:
Well us normal students can get jobs and those jobs pay us real money so that we can take care of everything that a scholarship doesn't cover.

Football players have a job that is much more demanding of both time and their health. Guess how much they get paid for this job? 0

Since scholarship football players can't juggle an actual paying job and football I believe they should receive a some form io payment. Ironing out all the details and issues will be difficult but the current state of affairs is not fair
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My thoughts exactly. And I am a grandpa, not a student. But at one time I was and had to quit a major sport (baseball) to get a part time job so I could eat, have gas for my clunker, and buy personal items like everybody else.
 
#589
#589
BruinVol said:
You believe equals dollars should be spent on both sides regardless of where the money comes from??
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I believe in equality. Yes, if one sport pays its players all sports should pay. Band, trainers, cheerleaders etc.. they all make sacrifices for doing the thing they love.
 
#590
#590
tim said:
I believe in equality. Yes, if one sport pays its players all sports should pay. Band, trainers, cheerleaders etc.. they all make sacrifices for doing the thing they love.
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I Agree all full scholarship athletes should get same pay if we get to that
 
#591
#591
tim said:
Normal students dont get free tutors, free tuition, free room, free board and other freebies. So what is the argument? Free vs. not free? Cant get a job have to get a job? Again, I'll take the free.
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Do you even know what the argument is really about??? Because you clearly think this is about normal students vs student athletes and that right there is taking you completely out of the argument.

But since you want to go there, the average student doesn't generate much revenue for the school. In fact the only revenue they do help bring in is the tuition that they willingly pay. On the other hand these football players do get a free education, but to get that education they sacrifice alot of time along with their health and well being. While making these sacrifices to get a free education the school uses their images and likenesses to make MILLIONS.
Now if the school was using your standard student and making millions off of him then I'm sure we would be having an argument about them getting paid for it. But thats never going to happen so quit trying to make this into something so far-fetched, its just ridiculous to even try and compare the 2.
 
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#592
#592
Alright, guys. Enough of this paying players talk.

It's game day!

UT plays in the swamp in two hours!!

IIRC, we were bigger underdogs in 2001 down there and nobody gave us a chance. We need our QB to step up like Casey Clausen did down there and our RB's to have a Travis Stephens type performance like in '01 today. We can do this! Go Vols!!
 
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#593
#593
Schools paying players is dumb. The money being equal is dumber and because it would not be market driven it wouldn't even prevent what is going on. If you're going to do anything let these kids sign their marketing, manager, training, and handler endorsements and move on. Make them all be registered with the NCAA and ban anyone from the sport who gets caught bypassing it. At that point players can get their money and Instituitions of higher learning can focus on that.

At that point if a booster is caught paying while not being registered then they can be punished. If certain boosters want to register and overpay for players so be it, it's happening now anyway and the only ones being hurt are the teams trying to do it the right way.
 
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#595
#595
JFBanicki said:
Do you even know what the argument is really about??? Because you clearly think this is about normal students vs student athletes and that right there is taking you completely out of the argument.

But since you want to go there, the average student doesn't generate much revenue for the school. In fact the only revenue they do help bring in is the tuition that they willingly pay. On the other hand these football players do get a free education, but to get that education they sacrifice alot of time along with their health and well being. While making these sacrifices to get a free education the school uses their images and likenesses to make MILLIONS.
Now if the school was using your standard student and making millions off of him then I'm sure we would be having an argument about them getting paid for it. But thats never going to happen so quit trying to make this into something so far-fetched, its just ridiculous to even try and compare the 2.
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The biggest question is whos image or likeness are they using to make millions?

Is the number 11 jersey I own representing Justin Hunter or Bryce Brown. The kids jerseys that arent being sold at yhat point get no money .
 
#596
#596
Neyland2nd2none said:
Alright, guys. Enough of this paying players talk.

It's game day!

UT plays in the swamp in two hours!!

IIRC, we were bigger underdogs in 2001 down there and nobody gave us a chance. We need our QB to step up like Casey Clausen did down there and our RB's to have a Travis Stephens type performance like in '01 today. We can do this! Go Vols!!
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I agree. back to the matters at hand. Today is one of the biggest days of our football year. Let's concentrate on beating the gators. It has to happen on of these years and today is a good day for CBJ to get his first signature win.
 
#599
#599
DD4ME said:
Schools paying players is dumb. The money being equal is dumber and because it would not be market driven it wouldn't even prevent what is going on. If you're going to do anything let these kids sign their marketing, manager, training, and handler endorsements and move on. Make them all be registered with the NCAA and ban anyone from the sport who gets caught bypassing it. At that point players can get their money and Instituitions of higher learning can focus on that.
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This is exactly what will have to happen.
There is no way that schools can keep sports or keep football players from taking money when they are paying a cheerleader the same as the football player.
This whole equality thing sounds great but if it would ever be put into place with paying them all equally would lead to either the collapse of ALOT of college sports or the collapse of college football. Eventually someone would start a semi-pro league that could promise the players alot more than any school would be aloud to out of high-school. Why go to college and get paid the same as a band member when a 5* could go to the semi-pro league, make $100,000 and if they wanted to, could afford to pay to go to college while still playing football.
 
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