Excerpts from Chris Low chat on ESPN today

#52
#52
PMC2726 said:
It's not that Florida, Georgia, Texas, Cali have BETTER talent, it's that they have MORE talent, as is MORE population playing high school football. It's an issue of numbers -- far more high school football teams in Texas, etc than in TN. Also, a lot of TN's talent is based in Memphis (where I'm from) and everyone knows the success rate of bringing these kids to Knoxville.

With that said, I do see your point and I've repeated this fact over-and-over: not many people know or remember, but 1/3 of our '98 championship team was from Tennessee. I don't know that our numbers will ever be higher than that, but 1/3 is really impressive when you look at the numbers and everything does go in cycles.
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Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com Ranking - Rivals.com Tennessee Preseason Top 25 2013

Notice a pattern? All from the major TN market areas. Not one player from off the beaten path. Those kids exist, they're just playing WR on a team with a 5'7" 130 lb QB or they're a kid that would be a 6'4" 230 lb TE recruit forced to play O-line....The kids are there.
 
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#53
#53
PMC2726 said:
It's not that Florida, Georgia, Texas, Cali have BETTER talent, it's that they have MORE talent, as is MORE population playing high school football. It's an issue of numbers -- far more high school football teams in Texas, etc than in TN. Also, a lot of TN's talent is based in Memphis (where I'm from) and everyone knows the success rate of bringing these kids to Knoxville.

With that said, I do see your point and I've repeated this fact over-and-over: not many people know or remember, but 1/3 of our '98 championship team was from Tennessee. I don't know that our numbers will ever be higher than that, but 1/3 is really impressive when you look at the numbers and everything does go in cycles.
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Those figures sound about right for the '98 team, and they equate to roughly 6-8 instate signees per year. Even that ratio reflects good times in our onfield fortunes. Right now, our boundaries are quite porous and, thus, subject to widespread poaching of the few instate elite prospects. All of the factors which we have collectively identified underscore how critically important it is for us to have a head coach who is an absolute recruiting juggernaut. There was a time when Fulmer was, as a recruiter, among the very best head coaches in the country. When his recruiting classes began to noticeably decline, the handwriting was on the wall in terms of his inevitable dismissal.
 
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#55
#55
Rudy123 said:
My concern is that Hart will retain Dooley. Then Strong will go to Arkansas. Malzan will go to Auburn and Gruden will end up somewhere else.
Then Dooley gets fired at the end of the 2013 season and no really, really good coach is available to come to U.T.
Then we will all realize that had Hart pulled the plug in 2012, we could have had Gruden.


I say gauge the interest that Gruden has in U.T. If he is serious, then we fire Dooley and hire Gruden....

If we can't get our top three choices to be receptive to coming to U.T., the just keep Dooley, until a real good coach is available and ready to come to U.T.

Don't fire Dooley just to fire him. Have a great coach already hired before you fire him.....
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If Gruden was really interested Dooley would be gone whether or not he wins out. This ought to tell you that Gruden is a long shoot. A very long shot.

I agree--don't fire DD and end up a a position where we are no better off. Firing him is going to set us back--if it is a great hire, we can make upo ground quickly. If i's a average hire, we struggle for several more years.
 
#56
#56
1725gatorhater said:
I was glad to see fulmer go in 08 and get kiffin. Things did not work well because Tennessee was too cheap and settled for Dooley. Wished they would have dug a little deeper in their piggy bank. I think if kiffin or fulmer coached this team they would have had at least 9 wins.
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You did say you were glad to see Fulmer go! not that glad now are you? Mama said be careful what you ask for. REAP IT!!!!!!!
 
#57
#57
Wilhelm,

Look at where Pahoke is located. Check out Frostproof where Travis Henry is from. Those places are as rural as it gets.
 
#59
#59
Wilhelm16 said:
Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com Ranking - Rivals.com Tennessee Preseason Top 25 2013

Notice a pattern? All from the major TN market areas. Not one player from off the beaten path. Those kids exist, they're just playing WR on a team with a 5'7" 130 lb QB or they're a kid that would be a 6'4" 230 lb TE recruit forced to play O-line....The kids are there.
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Yes we have Talent. Every team we play has good players from Tennessee. . With Dooley you will see Tennessee finish at The bottom (in the sec ) from now on in recruiting because all those connections that took years to build before he arrived are going down the tubes...quick! The guy is a 100% ass to former players ,coaches etc. We will improve the minute they announce he's gone !
 
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#60
#60
Boca Vol said:
Wilhelm,

Look at where Pahoke is located. Check out Frostproof where Travis Henry is from. Those places are as rural as it gets.
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Might I ask, where is the closest high school to Pahokee or Frostproof? It doesn't matter how rural the area is when the schools serve a larger area. I see Pahokee has around 700 students. That's about like combining Jo Byrns and East Robertson into one school.

According to Google maps, if you start at Jo Byrns and drive to each of the RobCo high schools with a football team (there are 6, I forgot South Haven Christian) it would only take an hour and 13 minutes to hit all 6 of them. Talk about diluting a talent base?

So you're sticking with the geography=talent theory? Gotcha :good!:
 
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#61
#61
Volinnooga said:
If Gruden was really interested Dooley would be gone whether or not he wins out. This ought to tell you that Gruden is a long shoot. A very long shot.

I agree--don't fire DD and end up a a position where we are no better off. Firing him is going to set us back--if it is a great hire, we can make upo ground quickly. If i's a average hire, we struggle for several more years.
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How farther back can we go 0 & 5 vs. the SEC thats as far back i'm willing to go. We fired a better coach for a lot less, wake up man.
 
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#62
#62
Boca Vol said:
Wilhelm,

Look at where Pahoke is located. Check out Frostproof where Travis Henry is from. Those places are as rural as it gets.
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Frostproof is a tiny tiny town, beside Lake Wales ,Florida. The High school Travis was from is very small and I know this because I also played ball there! Spook Hill was the biggest thing in Lake Wales,lol It was about the size of Crossville Tennessee
 
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#63
#63
VolFootballlover said:
Well to be Honest if he is given the win out or your done card. He will be done. I'll say this here so you guys can rub my nose in it. Mizzu ,Troy, or Vandy will deal Dooley his card. I'll hate Like hell to have any of those win against Our Vols. But I have no faith he can win 4 Games in a row with this staff!
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Like I said in an earlier post - Donnie the Retard could beat the Faux Four. Boy State, Mizzlose, Candybutt, and Kensucky are as bad as they come.
 
#65
#65
Wilhelm16 said:
I take exception to this myth of the high school talent in TN. Is there some magical effing force that makes you a better athlete simply because you live in a different state? I'd say it's more likely that the talent gets overlooked, because TN doesn't send a bunch of rural kids from now defunct local small schools to centralized super-schools. Call me crazy, but I think Bama faired pretty well with Hightower, Notre Dame with Golden Tate, Ole Miss with Oher and Patrick Willis, Kentucky with Randall Cobb, USC with Patrick Turner, Marshall with Chad Pennington, the Vols with Witten, Leonard Little, Al Wilson, Travis Stephens, Tiny Richardson, etc etc etc

The only difference I've seen is the coaching process. In TN you can't be a head high school coach without being a teacher or having like 10 years as a volunteer coach. Other states have non-staff stipend positions....it's not the talent of the players. It's like saying players from Portland are naturally better than those from Cross Plains because they live 15 miles farther up the road. It's NOT the talent.

That's a myth and the myth is continuously perpetuated. The talent is there...bother to look for it. If Dooley wants to recruit "3 stars with character", at least get the ones that likely grew up bleeding orange.
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I agree to some degree, but I think it's an assumption based on population density. Nevertheless, I'm really surprised Low didn't mention that UT feasts on Georgia talent. Much of GA is closer to Knoxville than Athens. We draw the rest from the other surrounding states and a few from Florida. But we consider GA home territory. That's lost on all of these "woe is us" individuals.
 
#66
#66
1725gatorhater said:
I was glad to see fulmer go in 08 and get kiffin. Things did not work well because Tennessee was too cheap and settled for Dooley. Wished they would have dug a little deeper in their piggy bank. I think if kiffin or fulmer coached this team they would have had at least 9 wins.
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Why do people keep thinking that Kiffin is proven? He entered this season with what pre-season "experts" said was the most talented 22 guys in college football. He is struggling through some games that he should be blowing out. He is more hype than heft.
 
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#67
#67
VOLorNuttin said:
I agree to some degree, but I think it's an assumption based on population density. Nevertheless, I'm really surprised Low didn't mention that UT feasts on Georgia talent. Much of GA is closer to Knoxville than Athens. We draw the rest from the other surrounding states and a few from Florida. But we consider GA home territory. That's lost on all of these "woe is us" individuals.
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Hmm? Anything south of Calhoun, GA is closer to Athens. That is 90% of the state of GA.
 
#68
#68
We keep Dooley unless and until we can find a good /head coach/ to take the job. No assistants, please.
 
#69
#69
armchair said:
We keep Dooley unless and until we can find a good /head coach/ to take the job. No assistants, please.
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Keeping Dooley at this stage would be worse on recruiting than moving on. Too much instability. Recruits knew he was on the hotseat this year. That's why so many prospects have held off committing one way or the other. Too Tenuous. No tangible benefit keeping him.
 
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#70
#70
Wilhelm16 said:
I take exception to this myth of the high school talent in TN. Is there some magical effing force that makes you a better athlete simply because you live in a different state? I'd say it's more likely that the talent gets overlooked, because TN doesn't send a bunch of rural kids from now defunct local small schools to centralized super-schools. Call me crazy, but I think Bama faired pretty well with Hightower, Notre Dame with Golden Tate, Ole Miss with Oher and Patrick Willis, Kentucky with Randall Cobb, USC with Patrick Turner, Marshall with Chad Pennington, the Vols with Witten, Leonard Little, Al Wilson, Travis Stephens, Tiny Richardson, etc etc etc

The only difference I've seen is the coaching process. In TN you can't be a head high school coach without being a teacher or having like 10 years as a volunteer coach. Other states have non-staff stipend positions....it's not the talent of the players. It's like saying players from Portland are naturally better than those from Cross Plains because they live 15 miles farther up the road. It's NOT the talent.

That's a myth and the myth is continuously perpetuated. The talent is there...bother to look for it. If Dooley wants to recruit "3 stars with character", at least get the ones that likely grew up bleeding orange.
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You are correct - there is talent in TN, but the issue is more about the numbers. In terms of population, Florida has three times as many people as TN; Georgia is 50% bigger.

The geography also has a role. Consider the fact that Memphis and Atlanta, the two largest metropolitan areas in this region, are both closer to Tuscaloosa than they are to Knoxville. Consider that Ole Miss (Oxford) is less than 90 miles from Memphis - >300 miles closer than Knoxville. There also isn't as much regional loyalty today; kids are into what's hot today and they don't know or care much about history. As much as it pains me to admit, Bama has a much better product on display today than my beloved UT. (FYI, I live in AL and the past five years or so have felt like I've died and gone to H#LL.)

Finally, I will agree with you that the coaching has a lot to do with the talent level of the kids coming out of HS. There just aren't that many "powerhouse" high schools (particularly in TN and in North AL where I live) with money and facilities to mold some of the better kids. There are exceptions, like the Maryville and Alcoa teams in the Greater Knoxville area, but you also have to be realistic. Yes, there are many good athletes on those teams and the coaches do an outstanding job of creating systems that help them succeed as a team, but if you look down the rosters at the individual players, there just aren't many of them who fall into the so-called 4-star and 5-star category that the big schools desire.

Patience is a virtue, but mine's pretty much used up.

Go Vols! (UT '83)
 
#72
#72
Volrocketman said:
You are correct - there is talent in TN, but the issue is more about the numbers. In terms of population, Florida has three times as many people as TN; Georgia is 50% bigger.

The geography also has a role. Consider the fact that Memphis and Atlanta, the two largest metropolitan areas in this region, are both closer to Tuscaloosa than they are to Knoxville. Consider that Ole Miss (Oxford) is less than 90 miles from Memphis - >300 miles closer than Knoxville. There also isn't as much regional loyalty today; kids are into what's hot today and they don't know or care much about history. As much as it pains me to admit, Bama has a much better product on display today than my beloved UT. (FYI, I live in AL and the past five years or so have felt like I've died and gone to H#LL.)

Finally, I will agree with you that the coaching has a lot to do with the talent level of the kids coming out of HS. There just aren't that many "powerhouse" high schools (particularly in TN and in North AL where I live) with money and facilities to mold some of the better kids. There are exceptions, like the Maryville and Alcoa teams in the Greater Knoxville area, but you also have to be realistic. Yes, there are many good athletes on those teams and the coaches do an outstanding job of creating systems that help them succeed as a team, but if you look down the rosters at the individual players, there just aren't many of them who fall into the so-called 4-star and 5-star category that the big schools desire.

Patience is a virtue, but mine's pretty much used up.

Go Vols! (UT '83)
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I lived in AL for 3 years so I feel your pain. FYI Memphis city population is larger, but the Greater Nashville Metro area is the largest in TN. FWIW.
 
#73
#73
A lot of TN problems is TSSAA regs relating to practice. Tennessee foolball players practice much less than GA ro FL football players. In other words they are not as well coached. As someone said earlier. "it is what it is."
 
#74
#74
Tennessee has more population than Nebraska or Kansas. Tenn. has 6.5 million people while Neb. has 1.6million and Kansas 2.6 million. It's estimated Nashville alone will add about 1 million people by 2025. They both have more farm land than people.Trust me I've seen it first hand.

If Kansas St and Nebraska can recruit then I know we can. Both of those schools dont have near the talent base Tenn. does. Both those places are furher from Texas and Illinois than we are from Georgia, the Carolinas, and Virginia. In fact, many dont realize we are as close to Cinncinatti as we are Atlanta and that Tenn is closer to New Jersey and Pennsylvania than South Florida.

Knoxville is actually well situated as it equal distant to the Great Lakes and the Gulf
Coast and also equal distant from the Mississippi River and the Atlantic Ocean. So Tennessee is actually geographically suited to get players from alot of different areas because it is so centrally located. Tenn should be getting top talent out of New Jersey and Pennsylvia that Florida/LSU cant because of their distance south. We just have to get a coach that can recruit. Gruden could Petrino could.

Now the formula to recruit a winning team is different than the way Florida LSU Ala and Texas do it. Tenn has always been able to get talent though. Dickey did, Majors did, Fulmer did, Kiffin did. You CAN recruit here, but you have to do it in a way that works for Tenn. and its geography,population, and location.
 
#75
#75
volmoon said:
Why do people keep thinking that Kiffin is proven? He entered this season with what pre-season "experts" said was the most talented 22 guys in college football. He is struggling through some games that he should be blowing out. He is more hype than heft.
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At Tennessee he beat SC, killed UGA we was in game with Fla and should have beaten Bama. Dooley has not beaten any of them and never been in game with Bama or Fla. Did I mention he helped Crompton improve.
 
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