Atlanta Braves III

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#4,126
#4,126
Vercingetorix said:
He's basically owed Cole Hamels' entire contract. Five more years at $25m per. There's no way the Phillies will eat a significant chunk of that.
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I don't think that's accurate. I think he has 3/75 left and an option at 27.5 with a 12.5 buyout. He's guaranteed 87.5 million over the next three years. Either way, it's a lot of coin
 
#4,127
#4,127
Ah, I counted wrong. Three more years at $25m per, then an automatically vesting option for $27.5m in 2016 if he pitches 200 innings in 2015. At which point he will be 37 years old.

So four more years at $25m+ instead of five. Either way it's an albatross.
 
#4,128
#4,128
I wonder if a team would get him for the stretch run, then try to trade him again this winter.
 
#4,129
#4,129
Dbake005 said:
I wonder if a team would get him for the stretch run, then try to trade him again this winter.
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It would have to be one of the teams that doesn't care about payroll. It's too big a risk for most teams. Get him for the stretch run, he bombs, now he's untradeable and you're stuck with the contract.
 
#4,130
#4,130
I just don't think he bombs at all. I get what you're saying, though. You'd be relying on him being GREAT to get a better package than you gave up.
 
#4,131
#4,131
Dbake005 said:
I just don't think he bombs at all. I get what you're saying, though. You'd be relying on him being GREAT to get a better package than you gave up.
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The fact that the Phillies are apparently making him available when they've got him under contract for so long tells you all you need to know about how likely he is to get back to that October 2010 level. They don't care about their budget, and you know they're going to do a major overhaul of the team this offseason to get competitive again as fast as possible. If they thought he was likely to be good the next two years, they'd hang on to him.
 
#4,132
#4,132
Vercingetorix said:
The fact that the Phillies are apparently making him available when they've got him under contract for so long tells you all you need to know about how likely he is to get back to that October 2010 level. They don't care about their budget, and you know they're going to do a major overhaul of the team this offseason to get competitive again as fast as possible. If they thought he was likely to be good the next two years, they'd hang on to him.
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It might just be a situation where they think they can get the best prospect in the minors.

Jim Bowden mentioned Washington as a possibility. No way they trade him in division.
 
#4,133
#4,133
No prospect in the minors is likely to be as good as the Cliff Lee the Phillies thought they were signing. If you're one of big-budget teams like the Phillies, you don't trade away a guy whom you think is one of the best pitchers in baseball for a guy who might be great one day. It seems likely that they've soured on him and are just trying to get out from underneath that contract while they still can.
 
#4,134
#4,134
The Rangers can take on Cliff Lee. They are pretty much the only option right now.


I seen where the Nats could be a fall back for Dempster.
 
#4,136
#4,136
Giving up good prospects AND taking on that contract is the stupidest move imaginable. I can't believe they'd do it for a guy having the kind of year Lee is having.

It'd be only slightly less stupid than giving up good prospects for 9 starts of Ryan Dempster.
 
#4,137
#4,137
He has pitched there before so I'm sure they know the risk/reward. They have targeted him all season, and Yu Darvish is not ready to be a playoff number 1/2 right now. IMO.
 
#4,138
#4,138
allvol_12 said:
He has pitched there before so I'm sure they know the risk/reward. They have targeted him all season, and Yu Darvish is not ready to be a playoff number 1/2 right now. IMO.
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The reward is that they move from having about 5-1 odds of winning the WS to about 4-1 odds. In return for that lousy extra 5 percent chance of winning, they give up a top-shelf prospect who probably becomes an all-star and take on $90m of a terrible contract. Seems insane to me.
 
#4,139
#4,139
Vercingetorix said:
The fact that the Phillies are apparently making him available when they've got him under contract for so long tells you all you need to know about how likely he is to get back to that October 2010 level. They don't care about their budget, and you know they're going to do a major overhaul of the team this offseason to get competitive again as fast as possible. If they thought he was likely to be good the next two years, they'd hang on to him.
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They need to cut payroll because of the luxury tax
 
#4,141
#4,141
Vercingetorix said:
The reward is that they move from having about 5-1 odds of winning the WS to about 4-1 odds. In return for that lousy extra 5 percent chance of winning, they give up a top-shelf prospect who probably becomes an all-star and take on $90m of a terrible contract. Seems insane to me.
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I understand clearly what you are saying. I don't care what they do personally, but we are talking about a team that spends money, and that has lost back to back world series. So if they feel this is what they need, then they will do it. We will see.
 
#4,143
#4,143
allvol_12 said:
No matter what they say, that had to choose between Cliff and Cole.
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If it were that simple, then they never would have signed Hamels to that extension before knowing that they could dump Lee's contract. Or at least they're stupid if they did. You don't buy the second Maserati before you sell the first if you can't afford to make both car payments.
 
#4,144
#4,144
allvol_12 said:
I understand clearly what you are saying. I don't care what they do personally, but we are talking about a team that spends money, and that has lost back to back world series. So if they feel this is what they need, then they will do it. We will see.
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I don't care about the Rangers either, but it would be a shame for the Phillies to get an elite prospect and a Get Out Of Jail Free card for that contract because some American League team is in panic mode.
 
#4,146
#4,146
I'll say it again no one is dumb enough to take on that contract without the Phillies eating some of it. No way. It would be career suicide to give up stud prospects while taking on that monsterous contract.
 
#4,148
#4,148
I think we end up getting a reliever.

Medlen might be a better option than giving away good prospects for some middle-rotation rental. A deal for Dempster is still possibly, although unlikely, and if it happens, it might be for someone other than Delgado.
 
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