Are We Sure Dooley Runs a Pro-Style Offense?

#27
#27
TENNFOLD1974 said:
The spread was created to open up passing lanes and run draws.
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Yeah,and it's also to spread the field and open up running lanes,still the "spread" is a generic word these days.When I played HS football in the mid-80's we "spread" the field with a shot-gun formation,4/5 receivers sets,and no TE. Nobody labeled it a spread offense,but that's what it was by now days standards.
 
#29
#29
orangepeel said:
Yeah,and it's also to spread the field and open up running lanes,still the "spread" is a generic word these days.When I played HS football in the mid-80's we "spread" the field with a shot-gun formation,4/5 receivers sets,and no TE. Nobody labeled it a spread offense,but that's what it was by now days standards.
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Agreed..you played ball too...cool...I get bashed a lot talking about X's and O's...everyone who gives me sarcasm seems to think I think I'm a guru and the truth is I played so I know a little bit about how X's and O's work, and try to explain some things and then get bashed for it...kudos for being a player:eek:k:
 
#30
#30
LawVol13 said:
Spread in terms of Shotgun and 3 and 4 wide receiver packages most of the time. I'm definitely not trying to criticize him; I'm just curious as to what we'll run.
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I think Dooley will tailor his offense to the players he has. Considering he coached under Saban for 7 years, I am sure he knows how to run a pro-style offense.
 
#31
#31
I wish he would line up in two tights flanker I and run it down folks turd cutters. You folks on here talking "spread" and "pro offense" are simply repeating what you've heard on sports center. Florida does NOT run the SPREAD. Its the single wing....Jesus. Who gives a crap what the man runs. His best bet will be controlling the clock with a run oriented style and playing solid defense. He's got no qb, an offensive line with two walk on's but....he does have a tb who can go. I will say he is an idiot if he attempts to run spread or pro. Just block down and kick out.
 
#32
#32
TENNFOLD1974 said:
Agreed..you played ball too...cool...I get bashed a lot talking about X's and O's...everyone who gives me sarcasm seems to think I think I'm a guru and the truth is I played so I know a little bit about how X's and O's work, and try to explain some things and then get bashed for it...kudos for being a player:eek:k:
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Same here, I'm a playbook nerd, love discussing different systems - erhardt-perkins, west coast offense, air coryell, air raid, run and shoot, etc.
 
#33
#33
bam15 said:
Same here, I'm a playbook nerd, love discussing different systems - erhardt-perkins, west coast offense, air coryell, air raid, run and shoot, etc.
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If you ever wanna chat X's and O's PM me..I would be glad to share my thoughts.
 
#34
#34
LazhilUT said:
Oh please! That is not a slap...if the guy didn't have his helmet on I'd agree but coaches grab face masks and smack players' helmets all the time!
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(well, I don't HAVE to...I do)...smacking his helmet got the players attention. Pat Summitt's stare is much more brutal and the LadyVols don't get to wear helmets.....or blindfolds.

New poster, two posts...yada...
 
#35
#35
bam15 said:
How do you even define spread? You can't. The dumbest term ever invented by sports commentators that have no idea what they are talking about.
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yeah,texas tech and WVU both ran the "spread" but were completely different offenses
 
#36
#36
The Spread Cincy and Texas Tech were running are really nothing more than the Run & Shoot. The Wildcat is simply a single wing. It seems everything old is new again. Football is football. Whatever Offense you decide to run, master it.
 
#37
#37
VolNavy01 said:
The Spread Cincy and Texas Tech were running are really nothing more than the Run & Shoot. The Wildcat is simply a single wing. It seems everything old is new again. Football is football. Whatever Offense you decide to run, master it.
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Disagree here, Texas Tech is 100% air raid which is Norm Chow/Lavell Edwards/Doug Scovil offense on steroids. They run the heck out of y cross, y stick, mesh, shallow, etc. They just spiced it up with Vertical Set blocking, and wide splits, not to mention shotgun every play. Cincy i'm unsure about and I haven't really analyzed them. You are 100% right on wildcat though.
 
#38
#38
bam15 said:
Disagree here, Texas Tech is 100% air raid which is Norm Chow/Lavell Edwards/Doug Scovil offense on steroids. They run the heck out of y cross, y stick, mesh, shallow, etc. They just spiced it up with Vertical Set blocking, and wide splits, not to mention shotgun every play. Cincy i'm unsure about and I haven't really analyzed them. You are 100% right on wildcat though.
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Oh I completely agree that it's Air Raid, no doubt. It just seems to me that the basic concept of the Run & Shoot was expanded upon in today's variants of the "spread' where you see 4 and 5 receiver sets. What you have your receivers doing once the ball is snapped is coaching preference. But the Pass Dominant Offense with short passes and quick reads by the qb to create mismatches really seem quite similar.
 
#39
#39
VolNavy01 said:
Oh I completely agree that it's Air Raid, no doubt. It just seems to me that the basic concept of the Run & Shoot was expanded upon in today's variants of the "spread' where you see 4 and 5 receiver sets. What you have your receivers doing once the ball is snapped is coaching preference. But the Pass Dominant Offense with short passes and quick reads by the qb to create mismatches really seem quite similar.
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True, Tiger Ellison, and Mouse Davis truely revolutionized the game with extensive 4 WR sets and no TEs, and you even see teams extensively using choice. But I don't see many teams running switch, slide, go, choice, and streak and especially not TT. I don't see the half-roll protection either. If I were to really classify the RNS teams though, I'd say Hawaii, Portland State, and SMU are the only true shoot teams, and that is thanks to Bob Davie and the Houston Oilers. GA Tech throws in some shoot principles. June Jones has sorta evolved though, he runs the heck outta levels, and has threw in some WCO stuff, he is also extensively BOB protection, and Shotgun, totally different then Mouse. I can see your point though and similarities can be seen with the Colts and Pats with the shoot. I would love to see it in the SEC.
 
#40
#40
well from what i hear he runs an offense that's designed to move the football. and runs a defense that's designed to stop or slow the offense. it's not brain surgery, the term "spread offense" is just a supposed 21st century innovation that has actually been run for years and years at all levels of the game. place 3 receivers and a tight end or just 4 receivers on the outside to "spread" the defense out. It's been used going all the way back to SOME versions and/or packages of the air coryell, the run and shoot, and even the west coast offense. The spread option is the exact same thing but with a qb that can run. i personally don't care what offense he plans to install as long as we score points.
 
#41
#41
TENNFOLD1974 said:
Agreed..you played ball too...cool...I get bashed a lot talking about X's and O's...everyone who gives me sarcasm seems to think I think I'm a guru and the truth is I played so I know a little bit about how X's and O's work, and try to explain some things and then get bashed for it...kudos for being a player:eek:k:
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I hope you didn't take my post as being an attack on you.When I brought up being an ex-player I was just talking about how things didn't have the " spread label" then. LOL- I don't even recall what we called offense,we would go from a spread type formation one series and the next series of downs we might go to an option.I know, it was crazy!

I like to read,and discuss X's & O's but I'm don't consider myself a guru at it.I enjoy going to HS games around the state and trying to see if I can pick out talent.I'm not a scout,but I like to pretend I am. :)
 
#43
#43
bam15 said:
Disagree here, Texas Tech is 100% air raid which is Norm Chow/Lavell Edwards/Doug Scovil offense on steroids. They run the heck out of y cross, y stick, mesh, shallow, etc. They just spiced it up with Vertical Set blocking, and wide splits, not to mention shotgun every play. Cincy i'm unsure about and I haven't really analyzed them. You are 100% right on wildcat though.
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Yes, Texas Tech is pretty much a modern take on what Brigham Young ran with McMahon, Bosco and Detmer back in their days of 46-45 and 52-52 games.

You're right about the blocking and splits. Leach spread out his linemen more than just about any other team I can think of.

And I hate the generic term "spread" as much as anybody. The first time I heard the term used was in the late 1980s when Hawaii ran a spread-option offense and had a lot of success with it. But their version (which they just called a "spread") almost always had the quarterback under center, not in a shotgun.

Urban Meyer was an assistant at Colorado State, one of Hawaii's conference rivals, during the time Hawaii ran that offense. I've always wondered if that is where he got the idea.
 
#45
#45
bam15 said:
True, Tiger Ellison, and Mouse Davis truely revolutionized the game with extensive 4 WR sets and no TEs, and you even see teams extensively using choice. But I don't see many teams running switch, slide, go, choice, and streak and especially not TT. I don't see the half-roll protection either. If I were to really classify the RNS teams though, I'd say Hawaii, Portland State, and SMU are the only true shoot teams, and that is thanks to Bob Davie and the Houston Oilers. GA Tech throws in some shoot principles. June Jones has sorta evolved though, he runs the heck outta levels, and has threw in some WCO stuff, he is also extensively BOB protection, and Shotgun, totally different then Mouse. I can see your point though and similarities can be seen with the Colts and Pats with the shoot. I would love to see it in the SEC.
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Good stuff Bam.You've brought back some names I had completely forgot about.
Keep it coming guys,it sure beats whining about our new HC,plus I just might learn something. :)

Oh yeah, my son is interested (for now he's only 15) in becoming a coach,anybody have any good recommendations on a book that teaches different formations?
 
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#46
#46
bam15 said:
True, Tiger Ellison, and Mouse Davis truely revolutionized the game with extensive 4 WR sets and no TEs, and you even see teams extensively using choice. But I don't see many teams running switch, slide, go, choice, and streak and especially not TT. I don't see the half-roll protection either. If I were to really classify the RNS teams though, I'd say Hawaii, Portland State, and SMU are the only true shoot teams, and that is thanks to Bob Davie and the Houston Oilers. GA Tech throws in some shoot principles. June Jones has sorta evolved though, he runs the heck outta levels, and has threw in some WCO stuff, he is also extensively BOB protection, and Shotgun, totally different then Mouse. I can see your point though and similarities can be seen with the Colts and Pats with the shoot. I would love to see it in the SEC.
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Totally agree. That's what I love about the evolution of football. Great insight.
 
#49
#49
jsc1973 said:
Yes, Texas Tech is pretty much a modern take on what Brigham Young ran with McMahon, Bosco and Detmer back in their days of 46-45 and 52-52 games.

You're right about the blocking and splits. Leach spread out his linemen more than just about any other team I can think of.

And I hate the generic term "spread" as much as anybody. The first time I heard the term used was in the late 1980s when Hawaii ran a spread-option offense and had a lot of success with it. But their version (which they just called a "spread") almost always had the quarterback under center, not in a shotgun.

Urban Meyer was an assistant at Colorado State, one of Hawaii's conference rivals, during the time Hawaii ran that offense. I've always wondered if that is where he got the idea.
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I think BYU has wider splits, but not surprisingly they are Air Raid too, and Robert Anae who is BYU's offensive coordinator was the O-Line coach at TT when they first made the change.

BYU_BIG_SPLITS.JPG


Wagner ran the spread option, you are correct, and perhaps you are right about the Meyer-Hawaii connection. But I know for a fact that Meyer, and Dan Mullen visited Louisville to see John L. Smith and Scott Linehan, visited Joe Tiller and Jim Chaney [Yes our very own Jim Chaney] at Purdue, Randy Walker and Kevin Wilson at Northwestern and good old Rich Rod at West Virginia. I also heard he spent a lot of time with Paul Johnson at Georgia Southern, perhaps that is where the option comes into play? He basically incorporated every thing he learned from those guys, and those guys really did know their stuff back in 2001, they were some offensive juggernauts.

Both Purdue and Louisville were traditional "one-back" offenses that Dennis Erickson, and Bill McCartney came up with, and what Scott Linehan, and Bobby Petrino have became so famous for. Which is why I would love to see Jim Chaney get the full reigns of the offense.

I can guarantee that there is little that Meyer runs now that Louisville, Purdue and West Virginia weren't running back then. Most differences are formations and motions, cosmetic things. Meyer just simply took the Counter, Trap, QB Power, Option, Zone Read, and IZ and OZ and put them into Shotgun extensively, nothing revolutionary, but something people weren't ready for, because they thought that it couldn't happen.

YouTube - Percy Harvin Counter Play

Just look at the video, that is nothing short of what Joe Gibbs would run in Washington, but Meyer was intelligent enough to throw it into shotgun, something no one else had thought of.

I'd be willing to bet though, that we won't see some of the stuff he normally runs because Tebow will be gone. The good thing about Urban, is he constantly adjusts, and I'd be willing to bet that he incorporates something else that no one is ready for.
 
#50
#50
Sounds like Chaney is going to be the offensive coordinator so it will be pro style I'm assuming. I agree the person who said he doesn't care what is run as long as we win. Let's hope Bray is the next Drew Brees. I'll settle for Kyle Orton.
 
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