Religious debate (split from main board)

#229
#229
IPorange said:
This sort of question indicates that you don't completely get what evolution is.
Evolution doesn't say an ape "turned into" a man.

Humans and modern apes share common ancestors, which were "ape-like" from a modern analog perspective. At a certain point, two separate populations diverged because each were responding to different environmental and ecological pressures. Modern apes are the product of evolution from those ancestors just as much as humans are. They were just adapting to a different set of circumstances, along a different path of biological success.

It's a common mistake to assume that evolution has a "direction" or end point towards a sentient being, but it doesn't. It is always moving in a "direction" for successful survival to reproduction.


Not to be overly confrontational, but I have a hard time believing you issued this question to very many educated people, or looked for the answer very hard. It's addressed in any high school textbook, and google is so familiar with it, it auto-finishes it. The answers to all those sort of Christian teen convention questions are readily available and addressed, as they have been put forth for over a hundred years. Hence, why Evolution is so widely accepted.
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Excellent point.
 
#232
#232
Roll Tide Rev said:
Sorry to offend you, but I will say this in all sincerity and love. I believe there is only one way to heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ and Jesus only. He is the only one who died for my sins and his blood was what made it happen.
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I try to be a good Catholic, so I'm down with JC, I just find it hard to understand why other Christians feel like this.
Jesus died for all of man's sins. I seriously doubt that half of the world is screwed because they might have grown up in a family supporting another religion.
It says that those who believe in Christ shall not perish. I don't think it says that you shall perish if you do not believe in Christ...does it?
I believe the main point of God sending His son to earth was to show us how to live. As long as you love and live (the best you can) like Christ did, then you will have a clear shot to the pearly gates. I do, however, believe that the "mortal sins" are most definitely ones that could reserve yourself a spot down south too.
Now, having said that, I choose to praise at church every week and on every Holy day because I'm thankful. That doesn't mean that I'm arrogant enough to believe that everyone who doesn't share my passion for religion is in the wrong.
God wants to see is in heaven. IMHO
Merry Christmas!
 
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#233
#233
Merry Christmas! Panthro:hi:

John 14:6

Jesus speaking to Thomas.

"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father, but by me."

Jesus is stating, that he is the only way to the Father.
 
#234
#234
As far as perishing, for not believing in Christ.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have eternal life.
 
#235
#235
IPorange said:
Just for a chuckle, how do you explain the existence of the fossil record?
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When did we ever discover a complete fossil record? The last that I heard there were gaps in this fossil record. I guess they would have had that on the news one day.
 
#236
#236
BeecherVol said:
As far as perishing, for not believing in Christ.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have eternal life.
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I'm familiar with those verses, I think I'm just looking at it differently.
It says that those who believe shall have eternal life. That takes care of those who do believe, but doesn't say that those who don't believe cannot make it into heaven.
I know this is a semantics discussion here, but I almost look at it like this verse says that those who believe in Christ have a short-cut to heaven. Those who may not know about him, or who may live LIKE Christ may still have a shot.
I just refuse to believe that such a loving God would turn away a good person who may have done His will...just under the name of a different god.
As far as what he said to Thomas, again, I think it comes back to the job of those on earth to follow Christ's example for how to love and live.
That is why I take weekly communion so seriously. It's kind of the "you are what you eat" saying. I may not be worthy, but if I can literally have Christ's body and blood inside me, then I should feel more capable (and more reminded) to live like He did while on earth. Of course I fail every week (often when I read posts from Bama fans in the football forum), but I believe that's the big goal here...to live the way He wants me to live.
 
#237
#237
Panthro said:
I'm familiar with those verses, I think I'm just looking at it differently.
It says that those who believe shall have eternal life. That takes care of those who do believe, but doesn't say that those who don't believe cannot make it into heaven.
I know this is a semantics discussion here, but I almost look at it like this verse says that those who believe in Christ have a short-cut to heaven. Those who may not know about him, or who may live LIKE Christ may still have a shot.
I just refuse to believe that such a loving God would turn away a good person who may have done His will...just under the name of a different god.
As far as what he said to Thomas, again, I think it comes back to the job of those on earth to follow Christ's example for how to love and live.
That is why I take weekly communion so seriously. It's kind of the "you are what you eat" saying. I may not be worthy, but if I can literally have Christ's body and blood inside me, then I should feel more capable (and more reminded) to live like He did while on earth. Of course I fail every week (often when I read posts from Bama fans in the football forum), but I believe that's the big goal here...to live the way He wants me to live.
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I agree that we should pattern our life after Christ, and do the best we can do at it, while we are here. We will never live up to perfection, and we don't have to. Lord knows I haven't.

I take John 14:6 to mean, that Jesus is "the way".
And I take John 3:16 to mean, that if you do not chose to believe "the way" (Jesus), you will perish. Because the alternative is eternal life in heaven.

Im Baptist, but that alone does not save me. My grandfather was Catholic his entire life, being Catholic did not save him either.
 
#238
#238
BeecherVol said:
I agree that we should pattern our life after Christ, and do the best we can do at it, while we are here. We will never live up to perfection, and we don't have to. Lord knows I haven't.

I take John 14:6 to mean, that Jesus is "the way".
And I take John 3:16 to mean, that if you do not chose to believe "the way" (Jesus), you will perish. Because the alternative is eternal life in heaven.

Im Baptist, but that alone does not save me. My grandfather was Catholic his entire life, being Catholic did not save him either.
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Excellent points!!
 
#239
#239
Maj. Richard Anderson, USAF chaplain, put it this way.

"Its not about religion, its about a relationship with Jesus Christ."
 
#240
#240
BeecherVol said:
Maj. Richard Anderson, USAF chaplain, put it this way.

"Its not about religion, its about a relationship with Jesus Christ."
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Amen! And thats the part that some people just don't understand. Perhaps if they did, they would understand what we believe.
 
#245
#245
Oldvol75 said:
No, where is there a complete fossil record? Link me some imformation on the complete fossil record please.

The one that takes us from ape like creatures to 100% man.
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So you ignore all fossils found until it is aehow determined every species that has ever existed has been found (which is impossible)? I take that as having no explanation for a woolly mammoth or Homo Habilis. At least be honest about it.
 
#246
#246
IPorange said:
So you ignore all fossils found until it is aehow determined every species that has ever existed has been found (which is impossible)? I take that as having no explanation for a woolly mammoth or Homo Habilis. At least be honest about it.
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Wait, so you are now saying that the Mammoth "de-evolved" down to just an elephant? Wern't mammoths superior to the modern day elephant?
 
#247
#247
T-TownVol said:
This from the guy who just told us that "some" apes decided not to become human like the other apes did.
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The traits that are the most advantageous for a population's existence tend to be the ones that get passed on. The pre-apes in the jungles needed to brachiate and stay high to avoid predators. The pre-humans used their hands dor other things, which then favored more complex thinking, which then favored more complex communication, which then created a cycle of growing intellect.
 
#248
#248
IPorange said:
The traits that are the most advantageous for a population's existence tend to be the ones that get passed on. The pre-apes in the jungles needed to brachiate and stay high to avoid predators. The pre-humans used their hands dor other things, which then favored more complex thinking, which then favored more complex communication, which then created a cycle of growing intellect.
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So, the tree dwellers are retarded? Or, they chose to stay as apes. Your answer does not help your cause.

It takes faaaar more "faith" to believe what your shoveling.
 
#249
#249
IPorange said:
So you ignore all fossils found until it is aehow determined every species that has ever existed has been found (which is impossible)? I take that as having no explanation for a woolly mammoth or Homo Habilis. At least be honest about it.
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Your branching here. If man truly evolved from apes, which is the excepted theory by science. There has to be one link that is complete to trace this back in order to prove this theory as real. Why can't you find this scientific link to prove what science says is fact? It shouldn't be hard, science says its a fact.

Speaking of Wolly Mammoth's, how come they seem to be surrounded, mostly intact in ice (water)?

Never said that I doubted fossils of other creatures that existed at one time or another. Just want the line from ape to man.
 
#250
#250
T-TownVol said:
Wait, so you are now saying that the Mammoth "de-evolved" down to just an elephant? Wern't mammoths superior to the modern day elephant?
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You still don't get what evolution is. It isn't possible to "de-evolve." In any case, elephants did not evolve from mammoths, they just had common ancestors. As far as superior, each is superior for it's native environment to the other. Perhaps it would be helpful to learn about the science one is trying to ridicule and discredit. It is the information age, after all.
 
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