$ for Athletes

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RetroVol

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#1
Discussions about how much money affects recruiting crop up in this forum, and I know I've been a little confused about how things have changed. So, if anyone is interested, this thread is to discuss, cuss, and chew the cud on the topic. Maybe even beat a few dead horses.

Interestingly, Knox News has a big story on NIL today for those who have a subscription or want to pay a $1 for the article. There's also a story available from the same reporter that says it from KnoxNews at Yahoo Sports. Here's a paragraph that stood out to me from the latter:

Athletics director Danny White said he allocates 75% of UT’s athlete pay, or $13.5 million, to the football program. The rest includes 15% to men’s basketball ($2.7 million); 5% to women’s basketball ($900,000); and 5% to other sports ($900,000), including $750,000 of that to baseball.

$900,000 divided by 15 roster spots is $60,000 per year. Again, that's on top of a scholarship. Not that it will be divided evenly, but that's a starting point.

Opendorse has a report "NIL at Four" that pulls from all their data about NIL deals. (You have to give them email, etc. to download. I said I was media. Here's my publication site!) Lots of interesting stuff. I'll try to post some of it, but here's two things to start. One, what a crazy few years for athletic directors and coaches. Total money involved in NIL (not all of which gets to athletes) went from just over $900 million in 21-22 to $2.26 BILLION in 24-25 and an estimated $2.75 BILLION this year. That's there's some tumultuous change! Interesting point from this is that the role of collectives is shrinking rapidly: $1.3 billion in 24-25 to $227 million this year.

Finally, the NCAA has a dashboard where you can play around looking at NIL data by year, sport, position of the player, etc. For example:

For deals reported from July 1 of this year (after the House settlement went into effect), half of the 840 or so women basketball players in the P4 conferences have total NIL earnings of $3390 or less (the median). But the average is $20,724. Obviously, a few players with HUGE deals are pulling the average up. In fact, the site shows that only about 1% of players have total NIL compensation over $50,000 -- that would be about 8 players!

Finally, "social media influencers" rack up some big NIL dollars, and they aren't always the best athletes. For example, the Cavinder twins from Miami pulled in around $1.7 million based on their social media following:


Cavinder twins.jpg

And, one of the leading all-time NIL money earners is an LSU Gymnast:

Olivia Dunne.jpg

So, as with so much of marketing and media, there's more than sports going on here.

And, one final point I saw in some of my reading (I think from Geno): What happens as this goes forward. UCLA has already committed to support of its women's team, and there's a lot of money floating around in LA businesses. Does it end up like baseball, where the Dodgers and Yankees are much better spots for a player, over and above salary, due to the "outside" endorsement deals?

Anyway, I find it all very interesting and, as I said, am just learning. Happy to be corrected if others see where I've misunderstood something, and would love to hear others thoughts and comments!
 
#3
#3
Discussions about how much money affects recruiting crop up in this forum, and I know I've been a little confused about how things have changed. So, if anyone is interested, this thread is to discuss, cuss, and chew the cud on the topic. Maybe even beat a few dead horses.

Interestingly, Knox News has a big story on NIL today for those who have a subscription or want to pay a $1 for the article. There's also a story available from the same reporter that says it from KnoxNews at Yahoo Sports. Here's a paragraph that stood out to me from the latter:



$900,000 divided by 15 roster spots is $60,000 per year. Again, that's on top of a scholarship. Not that it will be divided evenly, but that's a starting point.

Opendorse has a report "NIL at Four" that pulls from all their data about NIL deals. (You have to give them email, etc. to download. I said I was media. Here's my publication site!) Lots of interesting stuff. I'll try to post some of it, but here's two things to start. One, what a crazy few years for athletic directors and coaches. Total money involved in NIL (not all of which gets to athletes) went from just over $900 million in 21-22 to $2.26 BILLION in 24-25 and an estimated $2.75 BILLION this year. That's there's some tumultuous change! Interesting point from this is that the role of collectives is shrinking rapidly: $1.3 billion in 24-25 to $227 million this year.

Finally, the NCAA has a dashboard where you can play around looking at NIL data by year, sport, position of the player, etc. For example:

For deals reported from July 1 of this year (after the House settlement went into effect), half of the 840 or so women basketball players in the P4 conferences have total NIL earnings of $3390 or less (the median). But the average is $20,724. Obviously, a few players with HUGE deals are pulling the average up. In fact, the site shows that only about 1% of players have total NIL compensation over $50,000 -- that would be about 8 players!

Finally, "social media influencers" rack up some big NIL dollars, and they aren't always the best athletes. For example, the Cavinder twins from Miami pulled in around $1.7 million based on their social media following:


View attachment 794130

And, one of the leading all-time NIL money earners is an LSU Gymnast:

View attachment 794131

So, as with so much of marketing and media, there's more than sports going on here.

And, one final point I saw in some of my reading (I think from Geno): What happens as this goes forward. UCLA has already committed to support of its women's team, and there's a lot of money floating around in LA businesses. Does it end up like baseball, where the Dodgers and Yankees are much better spots for a player, over and above salary, due to the "outside" endorsement deals?

Anyway, I find it all very interesting and, as I said, am just learning. Happy to be corrected if others see where I've misunderstood something, and would love to hear others thoughts and comments!
So……LSU giving Kiffin double the amount we have per year?
 
#4
#4
Facts. Not many on message boards fully understand the dynamics. Tennessee NIL is at the top and there’s no signs of it falling off any time soon.
The historic adidas apparel deal was the cherry on top.
GBO 🍊.

The pay DW is talking about is the 20m from house settlement not NIL. They are different pools of money.
 
#5
#5
The pay DW is talking about is the 20m from house settlement not NIL. They are different pools of money.

It's not 3rd party NIL, but it is a sharing of the revenue streams the University earned from it's athletes. I don't know how it is addressed in the NCAA data. I was thinking that was total athlete earnings including school revenue sharing, but I could be wrong. Regardless, it seems a lot of money has moved from collectives into revenue sharing by schools. And then there are some big dollars for a few athletes from 3rd-party deals.
 
#6
#6
Facts. Not many on message boards fully understand the dynamics. Tennessee NIL is at the top and there’s no signs of it falling off any time soon.
The historic adidas apparel deal was the cherry on top.
GBO 🍊.

Fully admit I'm still trying to understand. Just looking for verifiable data.

As I understand it, the Adidas deal goes into the pool from which UT can share money with athletes up to the limits set by the House settlement. I'm other words, having that money does not increase the revenue share from UT to Lady Vols basketball. Still $900,000 for 2025-26.

Of course, according to the News Sentinel story, we have a staff administrator dedicated to helping connect athletes to 3rd-party NIL deals. But these have to be for actual value rendered and pass NCAA scrutiny, which estimates are that 70%+ of prior-year collective deals would have failed. This the sharp drop in collective money.

@KnoxLikeUs,I would love to know that UT has a lot of money it can hook athletes up with that cometes with UCLA, Texas , etc. As of yet, I haven't seen anything that seems like reliable confirmation of that. Of course, I have no inside sources. Just looking at publiclu available information.
 
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#8
#8
The settlement money does not include any money Danny can get from donations, the shoe deal, or deals players get on their own, or deals companies give players with interest in them attending a certain school.

I don't know how Tennessee Lady Vols stack up in the money outside the settlement. TCU has a money man who paid a million for a softball pitcher. He also gave our third baseman on the softball team enough money to make her leave Tennessee. I don't know how much Miles got, but it was more than Notre Dame was willing to pay.

Were in an area in NIL where to top ten players in a class going forward in every sport even women's basketball are going to be close or over a million in NIL. So the 900 thousand from the settlement is nice, but it is going to take a lot more so who do we have that is willing to pay the support that will be needed.

Just reported that at LSU Kiffin is getting 25 million for the football team guaranteed. This is more than the entire settlement so a lot of outside sources handing out money for LSU to give him that much NIL money. I would look for them to have a huge recruiting class in the next season. Tennessee will need a lot more than the 13.5 million settlement allotment for football. They are going to need more than what men's basketball is getting and certainly more than the 900 k that women's basketball is getting to get top players and stay competitive. Going to be interesting as at some schools the money is really flowing. The settlement was supposed to make it a level playing field actually it just made everything worse since there in no limit on where other money can come from.
 
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#10
#10
@Volfan2012 Thanks for discussing this. I'm learning, and talking about it with others helps me sort out my thinking. Hopefully, further discussion will help us all better understand the new financial landscape for P4 teams.


The settlement money does not include any money Danny can get from donations, the shoe deal, or deals players get on their own, or deals companies give players with interest in them attending a certain school.

As I understand it, there are several streams of compensation that flow to athletes, some of which a school controls, some of which it can influence, and many of which the school has virtually no control over.

Scholarships: Let's not forget this. Hopefully a college education is still valuable to many players, and maybe even more so to those, even in the 840 or so P4 women's players who aren't getting life changing money. And it costs the athletic department, but it does not count against the $13.5 million of revenue schools are allowed to pay athletes. The best thing about scholarships is that everyone gets one. Hopefully, this mitigates some of the feelings of not being valued as much by players who don't get the top dollars and promotes team cohesion.

Revenue Sharing: $13.5 million that a school allocates. Tennessee has publicly announced that $900,000 of this is going to Lady Vols basketball. This is "pay to play" money -- minimal requirement for appearances, autographs, endorsements or anything else from individual players. Schools fund this with TV revenue, licensed merchandise, ticket and concession sales, donations -- the total revenue stream into the athletic department. In most schools, even P4, this means football is bringing in the majority, followed by men's basketball and then women's basketball. Thus the way the money is being divided between teams. I do not think there is any publicly available information on how individual schools are handling this. (Anyone who knows more, please chime in.)

NIL Collectives: This has been the biggest change. These were huge until this year, but have dropped dramatically. Basically, these were often "pay for play" funded by donors and over which schools had a huge influence. Wealthy donors could give a school an advantage as, for a few years, this was basically the wild west of player compensation. Now, these have to be approved by the NIL Go. I suppose a luxury sports car dealership in LA might be able to justify some significant amount of NIL money to a players, but I'm guessing a lot of this is going to go to getting those 30-60 players you mentioned. It's going to be hard to know for sure because, as @chuckiepoo mentioned, most of these deals are going to include Non-Disclosure Agreements.

Individual NIL Deals: These seem to cover a range from global deals like what Oliviya Edwards signed with Adidas to whatever money local endorsements, sports camps, and autographs. This money also seems to include the "influencer" type of income that flows from having large numbers of followers on Instagram, etc. Thus the photo ops at all the schools -- they're not just to stroke the egos of players, they are promoting each girl's brand and for some, such a Livy Dunne and the Cavinder twins, this is a lot of money. The camps and autographs may be even more significant for those players who do not get a large chunk of Revenue Sharing.

NOTE: We do have a window into how much money is flowing through NIL deals, whether from collectives or individually at the NCAA NIL Assist data dashboard. I don't think this site includes Revenue Sharing agreements directly from school to player.

I don't know how Tennessee Lady Vols stack up in the money outside the settlement. TCU has a money man who paid a million for a softball pitcher. He also gave our third baseman on the softball team enough money to make her leave Tennessee. I don't know how much Miles got, but it was more than Notre Dame was willing to pay.

Again, this has all changed, but perhaps not all that much. While individual donors can no longer just give cash to players to pay because all such "NIL" deals must be approved by the NCAA clearing house, it may well be that some schools in some locations (UCLA, for example) will be able to nudge more endorsement deals to their players than others. For the biggest stars, this may not matter because they will sign deals with the huge brands that are global and likely won't have the time or energy to scoop up a lot of local endorsement deals. But, for players below the top 2 or 3 in each class, these deals may be significant. (Remember, only about 8 out of 840 P4 women's basketball players have NIL income over $50,000. I think this is all in flux right now.
Were in an area in NIL where to top ten players in a class going forward in every sport even women's basketball are going to be close or over a million in NIL. So the 900 thousand from the settlement is nice, but it is going to take a lot more so who do we have that is willing to pay the support that will be needed.

Absolutely the top players are going to make bank. Caitlin Clark made millions while at Iowa, but not much of that was due to Iowa. It was all Caitlin. I doubt the school even knew about most of her deals. Her agent mattered to her, not the Iowa AD. This is still true for a very few college players today, they just have to report the deals to the NCAA and have them approve. I suspect that for deals such as whatever Big Oh signed with Adidas, this is just a formality.

Just reported that at LSU Kiffin is getting 25 million for the football team guaranteed. This is more than the entire settlement so a lot of outside sources handing out money for LSU to give him that much NIL money. I would look for them to have a huge recruiting class in the next season. Tennessee will need a lot more than the 13.5 million settlement allotment for football. They are going to need more than what men's basketball is getting and certainly more than the 900 k that women's basketball is getting to get top players and stay competitive. Going to be interesting as at some schools the money is really flowing. The settlement was supposed to make it a level playing field actually it just made everything worse since there in no limit on where other money can come from.

As far as I know, coaching salaries are not addressed by the House settlement. It focuses on payments to players.
 
#11
#11
@Volfan2012 Thanks for discussing this. I'm learning, and talking about it with others helps me sort out my thinking. Hopefully, further discussion will help us all better understand the new financial landscape for P4 teams.




As I understand it, there are several streams of compensation that flow to athletes, some of which a school controls, some of which it can influence, and many of which the school has virtually no control over.

Scholarships: Let's not forget this. Hopefully a college education is still valuable to many players, and maybe even more so to those, even in the 840 or so P4 women's players who aren't getting life changing money. And it costs the athletic department, but it does not count against the $13.5 million of revenue schools are allowed to pay athletes. The best thing about scholarships is that everyone gets one. Hopefully, this mitigates some of the feelings of not being valued as much by players who don't get the top dollars and promotes team cohesion.

Revenue Sharing: $13.5 million that a school allocates. Tennessee has publicly announced that $900,000 of this is going to Lady Vols basketball. This is "pay to play" money -- minimal requirement for appearances, autographs, endorsements or anything else from individual players. Schools fund this with TV revenue, licensed merchandise, ticket and concession sales, donations -- the total revenue stream into the athletic department. In most schools, even P4, this means football is bringing in the majority, followed by men's basketball and then women's basketball. Thus the way the money is being divided between teams. I do not think there is any publicly available information on how individual schools are handling this. (Anyone who knows more, please chime in.)

NIL Collectives: This has been the biggest change. These were huge until this year, but have dropped dramatically. Basically, these were often "pay for play" funded by donors and over which schools had a huge influence. Wealthy donors could give a school an advantage as, for a few years, this was basically the wild west of player compensation. Now, these have to be approved by the NIL Go. I suppose a luxury sports car dealership in LA might be able to justify some significant amount of NIL money to a players, but I'm guessing a lot of this is going to go to getting those 30-60 players you mentioned. It's going to be hard to know for sure because, as @chuckiepoo mentioned, most of these deals are going to include Non-Disclosure Agreements.

Individual NIL Deals: These seem to cover a range from global deals like what Oliviya Edwards signed with Adidas to whatever money local endorsements, sports camps, and autographs. This money also seems to include the "influencer" type of income that flows from having large numbers of followers on Instagram, etc. Thus the photo ops at all the schools -- they're not just to stroke the egos of players, they are promoting each girl's brand and for some, such a Livy Dunne and the Cavinder twins, this is a lot of money. The camps and autographs may be even more significant for those players who do not get a large chunk of Revenue Sharing.

NOTE: We do have a window into how much money is flowing through NIL deals, whether from collectives or individually at the NCAA NIL Assist data dashboard. I don't think this site includes Revenue Sharing agreements directly from school to player.



Again, this has all changed, but perhaps not all that much. While individual donors can no longer just give cash to players to pay because all such "NIL" deals must be approved by the NCAA clearing house, it may well be that some schools in some locations (UCLA, for example) will be able to nudge more endorsement deals to their players than others. For the biggest stars, this may not matter because they will sign deals with the huge brands that are global and likely won't have the time or energy to scoop up a lot of local endorsement deals. But, for players below the top 2 or 3 in each class, these deals may be significant. (Remember, only about 8 out of 840 P4 women's basketball players have NIL income over $50,000. I think this is all in flux right now.


Absolutely the top players are going to make bank. Caitlin Clark made millions while at Iowa, but not much of that was due to Iowa. It was all Caitlin. I doubt the school even knew about most of her deals. Her agent mattered to her, not the Iowa AD. This is still true for a very few college players today, they just have to report the deals to the NCAA and have them approve. I suspect that for deals such as whatever Big Oh signed with Adidas, this is just a formality.



As far as I know, coaching salaries are not addressed by the House settlement. It focuses on payments to players.
On the last one he is getting 25 million to buy football players that is his NIL budget. That is not KIffins salary he is getting 120 million for 10 years making him one of the highest paid coaches in NCAA. As everyone will soon find out that approving NILS over a certain amount is a joke many many work arounds already being used to make it totally unimportant.
 
#12
#12
On the last one he is getting 25 million to buy football players that is his NIL budget. That is not KIffins salary he is getting 120 million for 10 years making him one of the highest paid coaches in NCAA. As everyone will soon find out that approving NILS over a certain amount is a joke many many work arounds already being used to make it totally unimportant.
Oops! Sorry. Thanks for the catch.

Wow, that's crazy, since 25 million is 2.5 million over what schools are allowed to share with all athletes in all sports. I assume this include NIL money that the school controls or can influence, the "Collective" money, right? It would be super interesting to know what each school has available total for any sport, but I'm just not sure where that data is available. I'd love to look into it more. Can you give a link or something to go read about that 25 million? Do you know what the total available to Coach Heupel is? Or for CKC?
 
#13
#13
LV high school recruiting is the best it’s been in yrs. There must have been plenty of money from outside sources to land the current fresh and then Big O. Why are we so afraid Thats going to dry up?
I don't think it will, but with the challenge LSU is bringing to football UT going to need a lot more money there. Where does it end is the question. Womens basketball had way over the settlement amount brought in year one for coach Kim. It was far more than Harper ever got according to rumors which we don't know if true or not. 900 k is not going to get it done for womens basketball going forward maybe 3 million will keep you in the game.
 
#14
#14
Oops! Sorry. Thanks for the catch.

Wow, that's crazy, since 25 million is 2.5 million over what schools are allowed to share with all athletes in all sports. I assume this include NIL money that the school controls or can influence, the "Collective" money, right? It would be super interesting to know what each school has available total for any sport, but I'm just not sure where that data is available. I'd love to look into it more. Can you give a link or something to go read about that 25 million? Do you know what the total available to Coach Heupel is? Or for CKC?
Last I heard Heupel was at 18 million. So LSU really upped the total in football.
 
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#16
#16
#19
#19

Here is a short story on the Kiffin deal.

Thanks. Yup, it says "$25-30 million" for "roster building" citing a story in the New Orleans Advocate. I tried to go read that story, but it's behind a paywall, so don't know what that reporter listed as a source, but it is certainly a data point. Does "roster building" include the budget for scouting, recruiting trips, recruit visits, etc.? All of that would be over and above the $13.5 million that seems to be the going rate for football for major schools. In any event, there is obviously some amount over "revenue sharing" that schools can influence, maybe even actually control.

As for NIL deal approvals through NIL Go, I do expect schools and boosters to push for as much room to act within that system as they can get. I suspect we will be seeing stories about this over the next few years. And, of course, I think the whole thing may be subject to further legal challenges, collective labor activity (maybe?), and possibly congressional action. So, even understanding where the lines seem to be drawn today is only a step toward understanding what is going to come.
 
#20
#20

The top ten in football still looking if there is a top ten in womens basketball. We actually came in at 20.5 million for football. I think we should be at around 3 million for womens basketball.
 
#21
#21

Texas paid 35 million plus for their roster this season. Of course this is football. Womens basketball should be ok in the 3 to 4 million range.

Thanks for the stories! This is all very interesting. This story about Texas is from April, before the House settlement was approved. There was a HUGE push to use up NIL funds before the deadline for that settlement. This is referenced in the Opendorse report I included in the original post in this thread. In fact, in the Texas story, it says:

According to Bohls, Texas athletic director Chris Del Conte anticipates the spike in NIL budget for this season will likely "one-time exorbitant expense" as they plan to phase out the NIL collective for the revenue-sharing model if it gets approved.

It also points out another point in this discussion, the disconnect of the very top athletes from the University's money altogether (at least in the past):

Bohls added that Arch Manning is "by far the highest-paid Texas player," but none of his money comes from the school because "he and his family acquired all his deals on their own 'with no help from the school.'"
 
#22
#22

The top ten in football still looking if there is a top ten in womens basketball. We actually came in at 20.5 million for football. I think we should be at around 3 million for womens basketball.

Thanks! This is a July story, reporting on the big burst in spending schools engaged in ahead of the House settlement. Interesting, but not all that revealing for how things are working for recruiting for 2026 and beyond. I do think some of the NIL money is going to be controlled by schools. The Opendorse report suggests less than in the past, but time will tell. I can certainly imagine, for example, a auto dealership conglomerate saying a school, "We'll pay $X,XXX,XXX to have your top quarterback recruit shoot some number of TV ads, use his picture on billboards, etc." However, what happen when the guy they thought was going to do that goes somewhere else and some less-marketable athlete fills that slot?
 
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#23
#23
Thanks! This is a July story, reporting on the big burst in spending schools engaged in ahead of the House settlement. Interesting, but not all that revealing for how things are working for recruiting for 2026 and beyond. I do think some of the NIL money is going to be controlled by schools. The Opendorse report suggests less than in the past, but time will tell. I can certainly imagine, for example, a auto dealership conglomerate saying a school, "We'll pay $X,XXX,XXX to have your top quarterback recruit shoot some number of TV ads, use his picture on billboards, etc." However, what happen when the guy they thought was going to do that goes somewhere else and some less-marketable athlete fills that slot?
LSU going 25 to 30 million next season can't see any of the stronger SEC schools letting them get the upper hand. So I would suggest that is the new number for football. Mens basketball less than half of that and womens I think will go around 3 million settle money and other funds donations etc.
 
#24
#24
The state with the lowest income per citizen is Louisiana. our former baseball coach on a podcast remarked that LSU football is their god.
 
#25
#25
Fully admit I'm still trying to understand. Just looking for verifiable data.

As I understand it, the Adidas deal goes into the pool from which UT can share money with athletes up to the limits set by the House settlement. I'm other words, having that money does not increase the revenue share from UT to Lady Vols basketball. Still $900,000 for 2025-26.

Of course, according to the News Sentinel story, we have a staff administrator dedicated to helping connect athletes to 3rd-party NIL deals. But these have to be for actual value rendered and pass NCAA scrutiny, which estimates are that 70%+ of prior-year collective deals would have failed. This the sharp drop in collective money.

@KnoxLikeUs,I would love to know that UT has a lot of money it can hook athletes up with that cometes with UCLA, Texas , etc. As of yet, I haven't seen anything that seems like reliable confirmation of that. Of course, I have no inside sources. Just looking at publiclu available information.
No, the adidas money that is referenced for NIL is outside of the school revenue share. It will go directly to athletes as 3rd-party NIL deals. What Tennessee did was secure a guaranteed annual spend from adidas to be paid as NIL deals. And adidas can get those through NILGo because they have dozens of existing deals that set the appropriate market.
 
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