Israel vs Palestinians II

[Ritzwatch]

Their obligation to provide humanitarian aid is in line with the 1/19 agreement, which provides for 600 trucks. You're so eager for a gotcha that you aren't realizing I've been quoting the same ceasefire agreement to you the entire time, and you keep being wrong in different ways. Maybe read the text instead of trying to score Internet points.

The humanitarian aid implementation steps then say:

So, I think our difference in this is that you believe the only expectation for a chance at lasting peace is for the “Agreement” you cite as being the only thing that must be done, while I think the expectation is more in line with the totality of Trump’s 20 point plan. I look at the document you presented as only the “implementation” of a part of a larger agreement, while you see it as the entire agreement, and all that must be done for lasting peace.

I expect there will be further “implementation agreements” to the Trump plan as time goes on.

Maybe you are right, maybe I am right. Time will tell.

 

[NashVol11]

So, I think our difference in this is that you believe the only expectation for a chance at lasting peace is for the “Agreement” you cite as being the only thing that must be done, while I think the expectation is more in line with the totality of Trump’s 20 point plan. I look at the document you presented as only the “implementation” of a part of a larger agreement, while you see it as the entire agreement, and all that must be done for lasting peace.

I expect there will be further “implementation agreements” to the Trump plan as time goes on.

Maybe you are right, maybe I am right. Time will tell.

Our difference is that I am pointing to the actual text, while you had never read it and are now CYA-ing instead of simply acknowledging you were wrong

 

[Orangeslice13]

Lololololol

 

[Ritzwatch]

Our difference is that I am pointing to the actual text, while you had never read it and are now CYA-ing instead of simply acknowledging you were wrong

No, I read it, as well as Trump’s plan, to which it refers. I saw obligations on both sides and believe both should be expected to abide. I also believe your doc makes obvious references to being a part of a more comprehensive agreement, as the actual title of your document makes clear.

I know it may be hard for you to realize that the river to the Sea still belongs to the Jewish state, but I can pray that your heart be softened toward your fellow man, and you truly advocate for peace.

Have a good day, Nash,

RW

 

[NashVol11]

No, I read it, as well as Trump’s plan, to which it refers. I saw obligations on both sides and believe both should be expected to abide. I also believe your doc makes obvious references to being a part of a more comprehensive agreement, as the actual title of your document makes clear.

I know it may be hard for you to realize that the river to the Sea still belongs to the Jewish state, but I can pray that your heart be softened toward your fellow man, and you truly advocate for peace.

Have a good day, Nash,

RW

The below is outright false. The document says 600 trucks per day at a minimum. Are you still pretending you weren't wrong? "Choose a lane" when no choice was necessary if you actually read and comprehended the document

If it doesn’t, well, Israel hasn’t failed to do their part, as the document you link references their obligation to allow humanitarian aid as provided in the very proposal you contend is not in effect.

Choose a lane, Nash.

It should not be this hard to say "I was wrong," even if you did all this "choose a lane" gloating in the process. I've been more charitable toward you than you deserve after your having no idea what document we were talking about, being obnoxious about it, realizing you were wrong and now pretending you weren't

 

[Ritzwatch]

The below is outright false. The document says 600 trucks per day at a minimum. Are you still pretending you weren't wrong? "Choose a lane" when no choice was necessary if you actually read and comprehended the document

It should not be this hard to say "I was wrong," even if you did all this "choose a lane" gloating in the process. I've been more charitable toward you than you deserve after your having no idea what document we were talking about, being obnoxious about it, realizing you were wrong and now pretending you weren't

Israel’s commitment to provide 600 trucks/ day was based on Hamas releasing 48 hostages and/or information about their whereabouts within 72 hours of the agreement. Whatever the reason, Hamas did not do that. If I am wrong, please provide a link to the document where Hamas provided information on all 48 hostages listed in the agreement to Israel within the 72 hour window. When you can’t, I will be gracious and accept your apology.

Hamas claims it is impossible, Israel thinks Hamas is slow-walking it. Israel, in turn, says they are slow walking the aid due to Hamas’ failure to abide by the agreement.

I think 300 trucks a day is better than none, so I am glad for the long-suffering citizens of Gaza. I will be happier when Hamas fully complies with their obligations, so Israel may feel free to fully comply with theirs.

 

[NashVol11]

Israel’s commitment to provide 600 trucks/ day was based on Hamas releasing 48 hostages and/or information about their whereabouts within 72 hours of the agreement. Whatever the reason, Hamas did not do that. If I am wrong, please provide a link to the document where Hamas provided information on all 48 hostages listed in the agreement to Israel within the 72 hour window. When you can’t, I will be gracious and accept your apology.

Hamas claims it is impossible, Israel thinks Hamas is slow-walking it. Israel, in turn, says they are slow walking the aid due to Hamas’ failure to abide by the agreement.

I think 300 trucks a day is better than none, so I am glad for the long-suffering citizens of Gaza. I will be happier when Hamas fully complies with their obligations, so Israel may feel free to fully comply with theirs.

In other words, Israel "thinks" Hamas isn't complying so Israel is definitively not complying, and with the humanitarian aid provision of all provisions to ignore. Glad you finally read enough to realize all that "Hamas is contractually required to lay down arms" stuff was flat out wrong, even if you don't have the integrity to admit it

 

[Ritzwatch]

In other words, Israel "thinks" Hamas isn't complying so Israel is definitively not complying, and with the humanitarian aid provision of all provisions to ignore. Glad you finally read enough to realize all that "Hamas is contractually required to lay down arms" stuff was flat out wrong, even if you don't have the integrity to admit it

Do you think Hamas has complied?

Show your work.

 

[NashVol11]

What specifically do you contend they haven’t complied with? Show me the section of the Agreement.

"Is it in the agreement?" (Yes)

@NashVol11

Cool.

So, given that the aid is conditional on signing the agreement, has the agreement been signed by Hamas?

"Well...they still don't have to provide aid" (this is not how contract law works)

And Hamas is “contractually required” to lay down their arms. Have they?

"Well...Hamas is contractually required to lay down arms." (They are not)

I think 300 trucks a day is better than none, so I am glad for the long-suffering citizens of Gaza.

"Well...it's better than nothing. I'm happy for them that Israel is giving them half of the minimum amount of aid"

Moving the goalposts all over the place, throwing everything at the wall

 

[NashVol11]

Do you think Hamas has complied?

Show your work.

Sure, they've recovered all the bodies that they can. Our own advisors think they've complied in the article I showed you already, which I'm sure you didn't read like everything else. What information do you have to suggest they haven't?

For Israel, on the other hand, there is no debate. They did not comply with the humanitarian aid requirements, and deliberately so.

 

[Ritzwatch]

"Is it in the agreement?" (Yes)

"Well...they still don't have to provide aid" (this is not how contract law works)

"Well...Hamas is contractually required to lay down arms." (They are not)

"Well...it's better than nothing. I'm happy for them that Israel is giving them half of the minimum amount of aid"

Moving the goalposts all over the place, throwing everything at the wall

So you can’t show where Hamas complied, cool.

Sorry your side lost the war, Nash.

 

[NashVol11]

So you can’t show where Hamas complied, cool.

Sorry your side lost the war, Nash.

I've given evidence of that several times and addressed it in the post immediately above yours. Can you show that they didn't?

 

[Ritzwatch]

Sure, they've recovered all the bodies that they can. Our own advisors think they've complied in the article I showed you already, which I'm sure you didn't read like everything else. What information do you have to suggest they haven't?

For Israel, on the other hand, there is no debate. They did not comply with the humanitarian aid requirements, and deliberately so.

Ummm, their own admission that they can’t provide all the bodies they agreed to provide because some of the bodies are allegedly in the control of other Palestinian factions.

In which case, they were not negotiating in good faith at the time of the Implementation Agreemnt to the Trump Peace Plan.

Again, I know it is hard for you to accept Hamas’ defeat; now go charge at some other windmill.

 

[NashVol11]

Whatever the reason, Hamas did not do that. If I am wrong, please provide a link to the document where Hamas provided information on all 48 hostages listed in the agreement to Israel within the 72 hour window. When you can’t, I will be gracious and accept your apology.

Lol, oops. Loud and wrong yet again

The BBC understands that Hamas has given mediators coordinates and aerial photographs of bodies' locations.

Netanyahu 'determined' to pressure Hamas to find remaining dead hostages

The Israeli prime minister's comments come after Hamas said it could not access the bodies of 19 hostages in Gaza.

www.bbc.com

 

[NashVol11]

Ummm, their own admission that they can’t provide all the bodies they agreed to provide because some of the bodies are allegedly in the control of other Palestinian factions.

In which case, they were not negotiating in good faith at the time of the Implementation Agreemnt to the Trump Peace Plan.

Again, I know it is hard for you to accept Hamas’ defeat; now go charge at some other windmill.

They've said they've returned all remains they can recover, given that many are in tunnels bombed by Israel or in areas controlled by Israel, and that they would need equipment that they don't have to access the rest. If you've seen something else then provide a link

 

[KB5252]

This is far worse than anything Hamas has done to Gaza, btw. Even that deflection doesn't really work here

For what it's worth Hamas is in part responsible for this. They carried out those attacks knowing there would be serious blowback. And as usual they hide under among and behind the civilians for the simple reason that dead Palestinians serve their purpose.

 

[hog88]

For what it's worth Hamas is in part responsible for this. They carried out those attacks knowing there would be serious blowback. And as usual they hide under among and behind the civilians for the simple reason that dead Palestinians serve their purpose.

Part responsible? Hamas and their supporters are 100% responsible.

 

[NashVol11]

In which case, they were not negotiating in good faith at the time of the Implementation Agreemnt to the Trump Peace Plan.

And as usual, this is complete projection. Israel signed an agreement explicitly acknowledging the possibility that not all of the bodies would be returned within 72 hours, and then throws an international fit and starts restricting aid again because not all of the bodies were returned within 72 hours, which they already knew was impossible

 

[Ritzwatch]

Lol, oops. Loud and wrong yet again

Netanyahu 'determined' to pressure Hamas to find remaining dead hostages

The Israeli prime minister's comments come after Hamas said it could not access the bodies of 19 hostages in Gaza.

www.bbc.com

Sure, loud and wrong per BBC “understanding.”

Of course, there are other reports out there that differ.

Who is telling the truth? I have no idea.

Hamas claims it can’t find 18 missing Israeli hostages. Where are they — and what happens next?

A group advocating for the families of the hostages accused Hamas of violating its deal with Israel. But both sides have known that recovering remains could take longer than expected.

www.yahoo.com

 

[NashVol11]

Sure, loud and wrong per BBC “understanding.”

Of course, there are other reports out there that differ.

Who is telling the truth? I have no idea.

Hamas claims it can’t find 18 missing Israeli hostages. Where are they — and what happens next?

A group advocating for the families of the hostages accused Hamas of violating its deal with Israel. But both sides have known that recovering remains could take longer than expected.

www.yahoo.com

You have no idea, but they have said they're doing all they can and have given information to mediators, the U.S. also thinks they've complied, and Israel is clearly violating the agreement (specifically, the most important part NOT to violate) because they say - contrary to everyone else - Hamas isn't complying. Pretty flimsy, but I'm sure you'll tell me that refusing to allow the minimum level of food and aid is "pro-life" again

 

[Ritzwatch]

You have no idea, but they have said they're doing all they can, the U.S. also thinks they've complied, and Israel is clearly violating the agreement (specifically, the most important part NOT to violate) because they say (contrary to everyone else) Hamas isn't complying. Pretty flimsy, whether or not you admit it

“Hamas said so!”

“You can’t show me a story that says otherwise!”

“Well, the story you show me is flimsy!”

Again, I wish you a good day, I am off to the hospital to see my boy.

 

[NashVol11]

“Hamas said so!”

“You can’t show me a story that says otherwise!”

“Well, the story you show me is flimsy!”

Again, I wish you a good day, I am off to the hospital to see my boy.

View attachment 782186

The story didn't say otherwise. It simply repeated the false claim that all the bodies had to be delivered by now, when the text of the agreement is there for all to see.

I said Israel's reasoning for violating the aid provisions of the agreement is flimsy. Do you disagree? Whether you do or not, there's no need to lie about what I say. Thanks.

 

[n_huffhines]

 

[Ritzwatch]

Hey, look!

Hamas returns more bodies, Israel provides more aid!

It is almost like this the the way it is supposed to work!

Aid trucks roll into Gaza as Hamas hands over more hostage bodies

By Steven Scheer and Nidal al-Mughrabi JERUSALEM/CAIRO (Reuters) -Aid trucks rolled into Gaza on Wednesday and Israel resumed preparations to open the main Rafah crossing as Hamas handed over more

www.yahoo.com

 

[JOEY’S ALL VOL !!!]

Do our tax dollars enable Boko Haram to carry out their atrocities with impunity? Do we invite their leaders to speak before Congress? You're comparing apples and porcupines.

I didn’t compare a damn thing, I made a factual statement about the protests of alleged genocide and its selective nature. The only people comparing are people like you that can’t deny it’s validity and look to deflect it away. Either you’re against genocide in every facet and every location and will at least mention its existence in other places other than Gaza or you’re just blowing up the hot air balloon of hypocrisy and spouting off selective outrage. It’s simple and plain old black and white here, you can try and paint a gray area here, but nobody with any integrity buys that bullshat.