Charlie Kirk Shot and killed

#3,853
#3,853
LouderVol said:
I listened to a podcast about this, it went over a bunch of differences. I don't remember the exact numbers so I will try to avoid them.

Controlling for inflation and wage growth:
the cost of buying a house has gone up 2x, even with a lower interest rate, the amount of interest paid has gone up 4x or 5x. They also brought up that many of our parents still had a generational home some of them could live in and take over, now days that percentage is much much lower.

and even beyond the cost, getting approved for a loan has gotten ridiculous, where you end up with situations where even if you could afford the loan, you can't get it. The banks don't care that you have paid $2,000 dollars a month for 5 years of rent; they think we can't handle $1,500 loan payments. its counterintuitive.

there are far more added costs this generation pays that the previous never had to pay for, health insurance being a big one, but even phone/internet is a completely new phenomena the previous generation didn't have to account for until they were older and established.

I can't remember the percentage but the amount of "unspent" money that hits our bank accounts are a lot smaller now.

and a lot of the soft skills haven't been passed on that could help. growing your own food, its easier to pay less on food if you grow it yourself, our generation was never taught that. same thing with making or repairing clothes, or other small household items. with chips in everything there isn't any real way to "fix" most problems. this is a lot of the reason the "trad" life style is becoming a thing, even on SM. its an almost completely lost skill set, because it pretty much skipped a generation or two, and its not something any of us grew up with.

even in the job market the expectations have risen considerably. on the job training is not a thing any more. There isn't a mindset of you can come in and prove yourself. you can't get any professional job without a degree, and even being a manager at a store requires a level of education that most of our parents never had.
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Good post Louder. These are some of the challenges facing my kids.
 
#3,854
#3,854
MontyPython said:
😆

Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist and founder of Turning Point USA, frequently expressed strong opposition to LGBTQ+ rights and identities, including those of gay people, through his public statements, social media posts, podcasts, and speeches. While he framed much of this as rooted in his Christian faith and conservative values—such as disagreeing with "gay lifestyles" or same-sex marriage—his rhetoric often included derogatory language, accusations of moral corruption, and references to biblical punishments that many critics interpreted as promoting hatred or inciting harm against gay individuals. He did not explicitly state "I hate gay people," but his repeated characterizations of homosexuality as sinful, destructive, or part of a harmful "agenda" contributed to widespread perceptions of him as anti-gay.

Key Examples of Kirk's Statements on Gay People​

Kirk's views evolved over time, becoming more religiously inflected after the COVID-19 pandemic, but he was consistently critical of gay rights. Below is a summary of notable instances, drawn from his own words and reported contexts:

  • Biblical References to Violence Against Gays (2024): During a campus event, Kirk responded to a Christian student citing "love thy neighbor" in support of Pride Month by quoting Leviticus 20:13, which calls for the death penalty for men who have sex with men: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death." He described this as "God’s perfect law when it comes to sexual matters." This was widely seen as endorsing or justifying stoning gay people to death, though Kirk later clarified in debates that he was highlighting biblical inconsistencies rather than personally advocating violence. Author Stephen King referenced this incident in a tweet but apologized for overstating it as direct advocacy.
  • Disagreement with "Gay Lifestyle" (2023): In a debate with a gay college student in Wisconsin, Kirk stated, "I don’t agree with your lifestyle... I don’t think you should introduce yourself just based on your sexuality because that’s not who you are." He positioned this as a faith-based view but welcomed gay conservatives into the movement if they aligned politically, while still condemning homosexuality as contrary to Christian teachings.
  • Accusations of Grooming and Recruitment (2022–2024): Kirk repeatedly claimed the LGBTQ+ movement, including gay advocacy, grooms or recruits children. In a 2024 post on X (formerly Twitter), he wrote about actor Elliot Page: "The pride and trans movements have always been about grooming kids. They call it 'normalizing.' They cannot procreate so they recruit, and now they’re bragging about it." He made similar claims in 2022, decrying "5-year-olds in a gay bar shoving cash into a Drag Queen’s underwear—all in the name of 'tolerance.'" These statements portrayed gay culture as predatory and harmful to youth.
  • Opposition to Pride and LGBTQ+ "Imperialism" (2023): Kirk described Pride Month as "hyper-sexualized cultural imperialism imposing a new flag and a new religion onto captive children," calling it "not some benign celebration of diversity." In another 2023 post, he mocked national parks hosting drag events for Pride, claiming "gay people are literally taking over the national parks system… Mother Nature is a lesbian." He also opposed same-sex marriage, calling it part of Democrats' push for a society "where there is no cultural identity."
  • Broader Anti-LGBTQ+ Context Involving Gays (Ongoing): Kirk labeled the entire LGBTQ+ community as "groomers," "freaks," or part of a "destructive" agenda, often lumping gay rights with transgender issues. In 2023, after a shooting at a Christian school by a transgender individual, he criticized President Biden for supporting LGBTQ+ protections, calling it a "disgrace." He also supported policies allowing discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, such as celebrating Supreme Court rulings on religious exemptions and calling for bans on gender-affirming care while implying similar scrutiny for gay-inclusive education.

Context and Interpretations​

Kirk's defenders, including some conservative figures, argued his comments were theological or political critiques, not personal hatred, and that he advocated "love" for individuals while opposing behaviors. For instance, he once said gay people "should be welcome in the conservative movement" if they shared his politics. However, LGBTQ+ advocacy groups like the Human Rights Campaign and critics, including outlets like PinkNews and LGBTQ Nation, described his rhetoric as hate speech that fueled harassment, threats, and violence against gay and queer people. His organization, Turning Point USA, was accused of creating environments hostile to LGBTQ+ students on campuses.

In summary, yes, Charlie Kirk expressed views that can reasonably be characterized as hatred toward gay people, particularly through dehumanizing language, calls to restrict their rights, and endorsements of punitive biblical interpretations. These were substantiated by years of public record, though he maintained they were defenses of traditional values rather than malice.
Click to expand...
Saying things that you think are “mean” is not the same as hate
 
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#3,857
#3,857
MontyPython said:
😆

Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist and founder of Turning Point USA, frequently expressed strong opposition to LGBTQ+ rights and identities, including those of gay people, through his public statements, social media posts, podcasts, and speeches. While he framed much of this as rooted in his Christian faith and conservative values—such as disagreeing with "gay lifestyles" or same-sex marriage—his rhetoric often included derogatory language, accusations of moral corruption, and references to biblical punishments that many critics interpreted as promoting hatred or inciting harm against gay individuals. He did not explicitly state "I hate gay people," but his repeated characterizations of homosexuality as sinful, destructive, or part of a harmful "agenda" contributed to widespread perceptions of him as anti-gay.

Key Examples of Kirk's Statements on Gay People​

Kirk's views evolved over time, becoming more religiously inflected after the COVID-19 pandemic, but he was consistently critical of gay rights. Below is a summary of notable instances, drawn from his own words and reported contexts:

  • Biblical References to Violence Against Gays (2024): During a campus event, Kirk responded to a Christian student citing "love thy neighbor" in support of Pride Month by quoting Leviticus 20:13, which calls for the death penalty for men who have sex with men: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death." He described this as "God’s perfect law when it comes to sexual matters." This was widely seen as endorsing or justifying stoning gay people to death, though Kirk later clarified in debates that he was highlighting biblical inconsistencies rather than personally advocating violence. Author Stephen King referenced this incident in a tweet but apologized for overstating it as direct advocacy.
  • Disagreement with "Gay Lifestyle" (2023): In a debate with a gay college student in Wisconsin, Kirk stated, "I don’t agree with your lifestyle... I don’t think you should introduce yourself just based on your sexuality because that’s not who you are." He positioned this as a faith-based view but welcomed gay conservatives into the movement if they aligned politically, while still condemning homosexuality as contrary to Christian teachings.
  • Accusations of Grooming and Recruitment (2022–2024): Kirk repeatedly claimed the LGBTQ+ movement, including gay advocacy, grooms or recruits children. In a 2024 post on X (formerly Twitter), he wrote about actor Elliot Page: "The pride and trans movements have always been about grooming kids. They call it 'normalizing.' They cannot procreate so they recruit, and now they’re bragging about it." He made similar claims in 2022, decrying "5-year-olds in a gay bar shoving cash into a Drag Queen’s underwear—all in the name of 'tolerance.'" These statements portrayed gay culture as predatory and harmful to youth.
  • Opposition to Pride and LGBTQ+ "Imperialism" (2023): Kirk described Pride Month as "hyper-sexualized cultural imperialism imposing a new flag and a new religion onto captive children," calling it "not some benign celebration of diversity." In another 2023 post, he mocked national parks hosting drag events for Pride, claiming "gay people are literally taking over the national parks system… Mother Nature is a lesbian." He also opposed same-sex marriage, calling it part of Democrats' push for a society "where there is no cultural identity."
  • Broader Anti-LGBTQ+ Context Involving Gays (Ongoing): Kirk labeled the entire LGBTQ+ community as "groomers," "freaks," or part of a "destructive" agenda, often lumping gay rights with transgender issues. In 2023, after a shooting at a Christian school by a transgender individual, he criticized President Biden for supporting LGBTQ+ protections, calling it a "disgrace." He also supported policies allowing discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, such as celebrating Supreme Court rulings on religious exemptions and calling for bans on gender-affirming care while implying similar scrutiny for gay-inclusive education.

Context and Interpretations​

Kirk's defenders, including some conservative figures, argued his comments were theological or political critiques, not personal hatred, and that he advocated "love" for individuals while opposing behaviors. For instance, he once said gay people "should be welcome in the conservative movement" if they shared his politics. However, LGBTQ+ advocacy groups like the Human Rights Campaign and critics, including outlets like PinkNews and LGBTQ Nation, described his rhetoric as hate speech that fueled harassment, threats, and violence against gay and queer people. His organization, Turning Point USA, was accused of creating environments hostile to LGBTQ+ students on campuses.

In summary, yes, Charlie Kirk expressed views that can reasonably be characterized as hatred toward gay people, particularly through dehumanizing language, calls to restrict their rights, and endorsements of punitive biblical interpretations. These were substantiated by years of public record, though he maintained they were defenses of traditional values rather than malice.
Click to expand...

Where was the hatred part? That he disapproved of their lifestyle and quotes the Bible? Shocking! Horrific!
 
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#3,858
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@MontyPython
A suggestion when you post AI results:

I think it is a good idea to post your search query as well as results. AI is known for delivering different results depending on how the search is worded. It isn't very useful from an evidentiary standpoint in the absence of the questions searched.

Speaking personally, I gloss over AI posts as they generally don't help me improve my understanding of the subject or the poster's thoughts.
 
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#3,865
#3,865
McDad said:
@MontyPython
A suggestion when you post AI results:

I think it is a good idea to post your search query as well as results. AI is known for delivering different results depending on how the search is worded. It isn't very useful from an evidentiary standpoint in the absence of the questions searched.

Speaking personally, I gloss over AI posts as they generally don't help me improve my understanding of the subject or the poster's thoughts.
Click to expand...

“Make an argument that ____”

Rather than

“Is someone ____”

That’s a very solid point
 
#3,866
#3,866
MontyPython said:
😆

Charlie Kirk, the conservative activist and founder of Turning Point USA, frequently expressed strong opposition to LGBTQ+ rights and identities, including those of gay people, through his public statements, social media posts, podcasts, and speeches. While he framed much of this as rooted in his Christian faith and conservative values—such as disagreeing with "gay lifestyles" or same-sex marriage—his rhetoric often included derogatory language, accusations of moral corruption, and references to biblical punishments that many critics interpreted as promoting hatred or inciting harm against gay individuals. He did not explicitly state "I hate gay people," but his repeated characterizations of homosexuality as sinful, destructive, or part of a harmful "agenda" contributed to widespread perceptions of him as anti-gay.

Key Examples of Kirk's Statements on Gay People​

Kirk's views evolved over time, becoming more religiously inflected after the COVID-19 pandemic, but he was consistently critical of gay rights. Below is a summary of notable instances, drawn from his own words and reported contexts:

  • Biblical References to Violence Against Gays (2024): During a campus event, Kirk responded to a Christian student citing "love thy neighbor" in support of Pride Month by quoting Leviticus 20:13, which calls for the death penalty for men who have sex with men: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death." He described this as "God’s perfect law when it comes to sexual matters." This was widely seen as endorsing or justifying stoning gay people to death, though Kirk later clarified in debates that he was highlighting biblical inconsistencies rather than personally advocating violence. Author Stephen King referenced this incident in a tweet but apologized for overstating it as direct advocacy.
  • Disagreement with "Gay Lifestyle" (2023): In a debate with a gay college student in Wisconsin, Kirk stated, "I don’t agree with your lifestyle... I don’t think you should introduce yourself just based on your sexuality because that’s not who you are." He positioned this as a faith-based view but welcomed gay conservatives into the movement if they aligned politically, while still condemning homosexuality as contrary to Christian teachings.
  • Accusations of Grooming and Recruitment (2022–2024): Kirk repeatedly claimed the LGBTQ+ movement, including gay advocacy, grooms or recruits children. In a 2024 post on X (formerly Twitter), he wrote about actor Elliot Page: "The pride and trans movements have always been about grooming kids. They call it 'normalizing.' They cannot procreate so they recruit, and now they’re bragging about it." He made similar claims in 2022, decrying "5-year-olds in a gay bar shoving cash into a Drag Queen’s underwear—all in the name of 'tolerance.'" These statements portrayed gay culture as predatory and harmful to youth.
  • Opposition to Pride and LGBTQ+ "Imperialism" (2023): Kirk described Pride Month as "hyper-sexualized cultural imperialism imposing a new flag and a new religion onto captive children," calling it "not some benign celebration of diversity." In another 2023 post, he mocked national parks hosting drag events for Pride, claiming "gay people are literally taking over the national parks system… Mother Nature is a lesbian." He also opposed same-sex marriage, calling it part of Democrats' push for a society "where there is no cultural identity."
  • Broader Anti-LGBTQ+ Context Involving Gays (Ongoing): Kirk labeled the entire LGBTQ+ community as "groomers," "freaks," or part of a "destructive" agenda, often lumping gay rights with transgender issues. In 2023, after a shooting at a Christian school by a transgender individual, he criticized President Biden for supporting LGBTQ+ protections, calling it a "disgrace." He also supported policies allowing discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, such as celebrating Supreme Court rulings on religious exemptions and calling for bans on gender-affirming care while implying similar scrutiny for gay-inclusive education.

Context and Interpretations​

Kirk's defenders, including some conservative figures, argued his comments were theological or political critiques, not personal hatred, and that he advocated "love" for individuals while opposing behaviors. For instance, he once said gay people "should be welcome in the conservative movement" if they shared his politics. However, LGBTQ+ advocacy groups like the Human Rights Campaign and critics, including outlets like PinkNews and LGBTQ Nation, described his rhetoric as hate speech that fueled harassment, threats, and violence against gay and queer people. His organization, Turning Point USA, was accused of creating environments hostile to LGBTQ+ students on campuses.

In summary, yes, Charlie Kirk expressed views that can reasonably be characterized as hatred toward gay people, particularly through dehumanizing language, calls to restrict their rights, and endorsements of punitive biblical interpretations. These were substantiated by years of public record, though he maintained they were defenses of traditional values rather than malice.
Click to expand...
Nice AI copy and paste bud
 
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#3,871
#3,871
Flogballs said:
Saying things that you think are “mean” is not the same as hate
Click to expand...
Mhmmmm…

A few Kirk quotes:

Called for a "Nuremberg-style trial for every gender-affirming clinic doctor"; labeled the LGBTQ+ movement a "death cult."

"Having children is more important than having a good career"; women over 30 "aren’t attractive in the dating pool" and birth control makes them "angry and bitter."

Supported delivering a baby even if a 10-year-old rape victim sought abortion: "The answer is yes, the baby would be delivered."

Claimed Haitian migrants in Springfield, OH, were "eating people’s pets"; said immigrants "won’t stop until you and your children... are eliminated" and could "steal your home."

"America was at its peak when we halted immigration for 40 years"; endorsed "Great Replacement" by suggesting immigrants aim to "replace white Americans."
 
#3,872
#3,872
McDad said:
A bad day to be McDad, for sure. Luckily she turned out reasonably normal.
Click to expand...

You hush. Telling a McFib...she's the coolest, prettiest, funniest McDaughter in the world and has you wrapped around her little finger. Whatever the other half of a "Daddys Girl" is...I know one when i see one. A "Girly's Dad" ? We know she is your McFavorite. I suffer from the exact same condition. My daughter is making chicken nachos and snacks for the game tomorrow that we are watching together.

* also I am still about 10 pages behind in this thread. Didnt get here til this afternoon and you folks were 30 something pages out ahead when I started 😆
 
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#3,874
#3,874
BeardedVol said:
you-seem-upset-jack-donaghy.gif
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^^^^^
Another murderer
 
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