War in Ukraine

[BeardedVol]

NATO is conducting a proxy war against Russia through Ukraine. There is no way they give up their leveraged position against Putin. They are gonna bleed him dry. So, that circles back to the question, why in the heck would Trump promise to end the war before he even took office? I will reiterate, it’s because he was speaking hyperbolically to his gullible voter base.

How did NATO manage to trick Putin into invading Ukraine to start the "proxy war" for them?

 

[OHvol40]

That is not what we are discussing. We are discussing whether he can end it, he can. And you called him dumb for saying he can, and if he did, you would be upset. So, you are mad at him for saying he can end the war, and you would be upset if he ended it.

"Do you know how you sound?"

Like a sane person.

There is no easy out for the Ukraine, the U.S. and Europe ****ed them. Trump can't solve that, he appears to be trying to save something for them but he never said the Ukraine will exist.

“He can”, “you would be”… you’re operating on hypotheticals. I’m just dealing in facts. He did say he would end it, he hasn’t. I’m just pointing out he’s a bloviating idiot.

I think Ukraine will be an on-again off-again conflict until Putin dies, then it will be up to his replacement as to what happens next.

 

[OHvol40]

How did NATO manage to trick Putin into invading Ukraine to start the "proxy war" for them?

They didn’t trick him into anything, he stepped in it all on his own, but NATO has chosen to deal with it in this way, and it has worked out pretty good for them and pretty poorly for both Ukraine and Russia.

 

[whodeycin85]

Anyone know why Ukraines attack on Hungry has gotten more attention?

 

[MontyPython]

What do you want Trump to do to end the war?

I'll jump right in (again) on this one.

Establish a specific date in the future, say October 1, 2025. Tell Putin that on that day, Ukraine will be admitted to NATO. As such, any attack on Ukraine after that date would trip Article 5 and NATO would declare war on Russia.

Ain't complicated. No way on God's green Earth would Putin want war with NATO.

War would end and Ukraine now part of Europe.

 

[OHvol40]

I'll jump right in (again) on this one.

Establish a specific date in the future, say October 1, 2025. Tell Putin that on that day, Ukraine will be admitted to NATO. As such, any attack on Ukraine after that date would trip Article 5 and NATO would declare war on Russia.

Ain't complicated. No way on God's green Earth would Putin want war with NATO.

War would end and Ukraine now part of Europe.

Military industrial complex don’t want that.

 

[Ritzwatch]

I'll jump right in (again) on this one.

Establish a specific date in the future, say October 1, 2025. Tell Putin that on that day, Ukraine will be admitted to NATO. As such, any attack on Ukraine after that date would trip Article 5 and NATO would declare war on Russia.

Ain't complicated. No way on God's green Earth would Putin want war with NATO.

War would end and Ukraine now part of Europe.

This is a specific suggestion, I just don't think it is realistic.

I don't think the European countries want to commit their soldiers to die in Ukraine.
I know the US doesn't. I, for one, am not sending my sons to fight over there.

 

[n_huffhines]

 

[MontyPython]

This is a specific suggestion, I just don't think it is realistic.

I don't think the European countries want to commit their soldiers to die in Ukraine.
I know the US doesn't. I, for one, am not sending my sons to fight over there.

European countries’ support for Ukraine joining NATO varies, with a mix of strong backing, hesitation, and opposition influenced by geopolitical concerns, domestic politics, and fears of escalating tensions with Russia. Based on available information, here’s a breakdown:

### Strong Supporters

Many Eastern European countries, particularly those closer to Russia, strongly support Ukraine’s NATO membership due to shared security concerns and historical experiences with Russian aggression:

- **Poland**, **Lithuania**, **Latvia**, and **Estonia** are vocal advocates, seeing Ukraine’s integration as critical to regional stability and countering Russian influence. For instance, Poland and Lithuania have actively supported Ukraine’s NATO and EU aspirations through platforms like the Lublin Triangle.[](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Ukraine_to_the_European_Union)
- **Czech Republic**, **Bulgaria**, **Romania**, and other Eastern European NATO members also tend to favor Ukraine’s membership, often citing the need to strengthen the alliance’s eastern flank.[](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clymn8zyrp9o)
- **Finland** and **Sweden**, recent NATO members, have shown support, partly due to their own decisions to join NATO in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2022.[](https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-formal-application-join-nato/)
- **United Kingdom** has consistently supported Ukraine’s NATO aspirations, emphasizing long-term security guarantees and military aid.

These countries view Ukraine’s membership as a way to deter further Russian aggression and align with NATO’s 2008 Bucharest Summit commitment that Ukraine will eventually become a member.[](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_192648.htm)

### Hesitant or Opposed

Several Western European countries and others express reservations, often citing the risk of direct conflict with Russia or the need for Ukraine to meet NATO’s membership criteria (e.g., resolving territorial disputes, reducing corruption, and ensuring democratic standards):

- **Germany** has softened its stance but remains skeptical, with Chancellor Olaf Scholz cautious about escalation. Germany’s hesitation stems from its economic ties to Russia (e.g., energy dependencies) and a preference for diplomatic solutions.[](https://kyivindependent.com/at-least-7-countries-resist/)[](https://carnegieendowment.org/europe/strategic-europe/2024/11/taking-the-pulse-would-freezing-ukraines-nato-membership-process-advance-peace?lang=en)
- **United States**, while not a European country, significantly influences NATO decisions and has been cautious, with both the Biden and Trump administrations expressing concerns about escalation. The U.S. Ambassador to NATO, Julianne Smith, noted in 2024 that the alliance isn’t ready to extend an invitation.[](https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/politico-seven-countries-oppose-ukraines-nato-membership/)
- **Hungary** and **Slovakia** are notably opposed, driven by populist leaders (Viktor Orbán and Robert Fico) who maintain pro-Russia leanings or prioritize domestic political narratives over confrontation with Moscow.[](https://kyivindependent.com/at-least-7-countries-resist/)[](https://kyivindependent.com/why-is-ukraine-not-accepted-into-nato/)
- **Belgium**, **Slovenia**, and **Spain** have been reported as reluctant, often aligning with larger powers like the U.S. and Germany to avoid openly committing. These countries support Ukraine’s aspirations “in the abstract” but hesitate when membership becomes a concrete possibility due to fears of provoking Russia.[](https://kyivindependent.com/at-least-7-countries-resist/)[](https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/politico-seven-countries-oppose-ukraines-nato-membership/)
- **France** has historically been cautious, with former leaders like Jean-Claude Juncker warning against Ukraine’s NATO membership due to the risk of triggering Article 5 (collective defense) and direct confrontation with Russia. However, France has warmed to Ukraine’s EU candidacy, suggesting a nuanced stance.[](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/03/06/ukraine-is-not-ready-to-join-nato-or-the-eu-juncker-says)[](https://carnegieendowment.org/2023/10/24/ukraine-s-accession-poses-unique-conundrum-for-eu-pub-90838)

### Broader Context and Trends

- **NATO’s Official Position**: At the 2023 Vilnius and 2024 Washington Summits, NATO reaffirmed Ukraine’s “irreversible path” to membership and waived the Membership Action Plan (MAP) requirement, signaling strong institutional support. However, no specific timeline or invitation has been extended, reflecting the need for consensus among all 32 members.[](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9819/)[](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_192648.htm)
- **Public Sentiment in Ukraine**: Support for NATO membership among Ukrainians is high, with polls showing 83% in favor in February 2023, particularly in western and central regions. This public pressure strengthens Kyiv’s push but doesn’t guarantee European consensus.[](https://theconversation.com/ukraines-push-for-nato-membership-is-rooted-in-its-european-past-and-its-future-209839)
- **Russian Opposition**: Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was partly justified by Moscow as a response to NATO’s eastward expansion. Putin has consistently demanded guarantees against Ukraine’s membership, complicating European decision-making.[](https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-formal-application-join-nato/)[](https://kyivindependent.com/why-is-ukraine-not-accepted-into-nato/)
- **Geopolitical Realities**: Some European countries worry that admitting Ukraine during its ongoing conflict could invoke NATO’s Article 5, pulling the alliance into direct war with Russia. Others argue that excluding Ukraine emboldens Moscow, prolonging the conflict.[](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/five-reasons-why-ukraine-should-be-invited-to-join-nato/)[](https://kyivindependent.com/why-is-ukraine-not-accepted-into-nato/)

### Summary

While the majority of NATO’s European members, especially in Eastern Europe, support Ukraine’s eventual membership, at least seven countries (including Hungary, Slovakia, Belgium, Slovenia, Spain, and to some extent Germany and the U.S.) are resistant or noncommittal, primarily due to fears of escalating tensions with Russia or Ukraine’s unresolved territorial disputes. Despite NATO’s 2023 and 2024 commitments to Ukraine’s “irreversible path,” the lack of a formal invitation reflects this division. Eastern European countries like Poland and the Baltics lead the charge for Ukraine’s integration, while Western European hesitancy highlights the alliance’s cautious approach to expansion during wartime.[](https://kyivindependent.com/at-least-7-countries-resist/)[](https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/politico-seven-countries-oppose-ukraines-nato-membership/)[](https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9819/)

 

[hog88]

Yep, just like that… only subjectively less noble.

Of course

 

[MontyPython]

View attachment 765808

Ahh, OK.

Per Trump, Ukraine needs to FIGHT BACK, not only DEFEND itself against Russia.

So I guess this means he's gonna supply some really good offensive weapons to Ukraine that we currently have stockpiled... otherwise Trump (who is our President right now, I think) would be doing exactly what "crooked and grossly incompetent" Joe Biden already did.

Right?

Sweet.

Glad to see you finally showing some balls, TACO!

 

[LSU-SIU]

“He can”, “you would be”… you’re operating on hypotheticals. I’m just dealing in facts. He did say he would end it, he hasn’t. I’m just pointing out he’s a bloviating idiot.

I think Ukraine will be an on-again off-again conflict until Putin dies, then it will be up to his replacement as to what happens next.

You said this.

rub together knew Trump couldn’t end this conflict

He can, but you will be screaming about that if he did so what is this all about? He certainly can, but as he said he is trying to get something for the Ukraine.... on that... well, not sure. There are not many cards to play around with here. If he ended the conflict today, you would be very upset and mad and screaming at clouds.

I think Ukraine will be an on-again off-again conflict until Putin dies, then it will be up to his replacement as to what happens next.

I think you have a hellva imagination.

 

[n_huffhines]

So I guess this means he's gonna supply some really good offensive weapons to Ukraine that we currently have stockpiled... otherwise Trump (who is our President right now, I think) would be doing exactly what "crooked and grossly incompetent" Joe Biden already did.

Right?

Sweet.

Glad to see you finally showing some balls, TACO!

He can't give them to Ukraine for their defensive war because Israel needs them for genocide.

As a side note, I also disagree with his premise. When you are defending your own turf, you can "win" by losing while outlasting the invaders. The US never got attacked by the VC, but they won the Vietnam war by attrition.

Russia may be more committed to this than we were to Vietnam, but they're also kind of a joke, despite having much more might than Ukraine.

I don't think Ukraine wants to invade Russia, unless there are objectives that would be easy to take and easy to keep.

 

[LSU-SIU]

This is a specific suggestion, I just don't think it is realistic.

I don't think the European countries want to commit their soldiers to die in Ukraine.
I know the US doesn't. I, for one, am not sending my sons to fight over there.

Monty is one of the famous smart internet keyboard warriors on the board.

 

[hog88]

I'll jump right in (again) on this one.

Establish a specific date in the future, say October 1, 2025. Tell Putin that on that day, Ukraine will be admitted to NATO. As such, any attack on Ukraine after that date would trip Article 5 and NATO would declare war on Russia.

Ain't complicated. No way on God's green Earth would Putin want war with NATO.

War would end and Ukraine now part of Europe.

That would be a huge risk, I don’t know why you think Putin would back down. IMO Putin would be finished if he did and I’m not talking about him simply being removed from office. I’m talking about him being removed from the population. No way he survives without being able to claim some semblance of victory.

 

[OHvol40]

You said this.



He can, but you will be screaming about that if he did so what is this all about?



I think you have a hellva imagination.

Trump ‘could’ annex South America. That doesn’t mean he would or should… but then again he didn’t promise to do that on the campaign trail, did he?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Trump ‘could’ annex South America. That doesn’t mean he would or should… but then again he didn’t promise to do that on the campaign trail, did he?

Doubt. Actually I said he couldn't, but I will give you doubt.

but then again he didn’t promise to do that on the campaign trail, did he?

But you would be screaming if he did it already. If he pulled the carpet out, most likely looking at unconditional surrender.

 

[MontyPython]

That would be a huge risk, I don’t know why you think Putin would back down. IMO Putin would be finished if he did and I’m not talking about him simply being removed from office. I’m talking about him being removed from the population. No way he survives without being able to claim some semblance of victory.

How does he not *already* have his victory?

 

[evillawyer]

This was Putin showing Trump whose d**k swings bigger. Small hands Trump is such a total weakling he'll do nothing.

 

[hog88]

How does he not *already* have his victory?

Because the Russian military is incompetent.

 

[LSU-SIU]

This was Putin showing Trump whose d**k swings bigger.

You want him to send you to stand in front of the missiles?

He is telling the Ukrainians you really don't have a hand here.

 

[evillawyer]

You want him to send you to stand in front of the missiles?

There's only one way to handle Putin:

 

[LSU-SIU]

There's only one way to handle Putin:

Well, why don't you go do it?

https://www.ildu.com.ua/

 

[MontyPython]

Because the Russian military is incompetent.

Heh. That's not what I'm asking. I'm saying Putin already has his victory: He took Crimea and most of 4 huge regions of Ukraine.

All Putin has to do is stop the war, spike the football, declare victory and the Russians say "yay"... then go about their miserably lives.

The problem is Putin's ego. He wants all of Ukraine. In his mind, that is victory.

 

[hog88]

Heh. That's not what I'm asking. I'm saying Putin already has his victory: He took Crimea and most of 4 huge regions of Ukraine.

All Putin has to do is stop the war, spike the football, declare victory and the Russians say "yay"... then go about their miserably lives.

The problem is Putin's ego. He wants all of Ukraine. In his mind, that is victory.

Wouldn’t Ukraine have to agree to give up that territory?