President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

#37,678
#37,678
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
My issue socially is you cannot force motherhood even if you can force birth and lots of children age out of foster care now in America and straight into poverty. That, again, shouldn't figure into abortion but draws a CLEAR picture that saying we "value the child" and actually valuing the child are not meeting up for those of us who hate abortion passionately.
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You’re welcome to start a charity in an effort to fill such gaps. I don’t disagree that we’ve yet to find a great system here, but I actually think foster kids receive Medicaid until 25 along with educational benefits and may remain in foster care until 21

SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I don't have a "set number of weeks" that I can say should be a cutoff.
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I’m with you. I think the further you go, the worse morally it is, but I can’t pretend there’s an exact perfect date.

SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Morally, I hate justifying intentionally killing a potential human life under any circumstances. I'm also EXTREMELY passionate that govt can kiss my butt on controlling my personal life and certainly an early pregnancy is a woman's very personal life.
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Telling you that you can’t kill your children doesn’t seem like a massive level of control.

SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'd love to have a clear "this many weeks" answer but I can't do it. I feel for any family or individual who is placed in that dilemma.
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Just because a perfect answer doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a line.
 
#37,679
#37,679
BeardedVol said:
It's the Supreme Court that decided that women in fact do not have a right to control their own bodies after the fact, their various rulings on the obligation of the government to protect citizens is quite relevant, especially given that it's zero.
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It has zero to do with this topic and you’re just bringing it up so you can cry about the court.

BeardedVol said:
No fetus is viable a 12 weeks. No fetus is viable at 16 weeks. No fetus is viable at 20 weeks. You're picking a number that you feel will reduce the likelihood of a woman being able to get an abortion because of when most women realize they are pregnant.
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No one claimed a fetus was viable at 12 weeks. You’re fighting windmills, again.

I’m picking a number that provides women time to get an abortion, because the further into the future that number is, the worse morally the outcome is. Do you see a moral distinction between a 23 week abortion and the morning after pill?

BeardedVol said:
No, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of your belief system that champions removing government interference in our lives, except when it comes to forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term.
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Enforcing murder laws is not hypocrisy. I’m a conservative. Not an anarchist.
 
#37,681
#37,681
Vol8188 said:
Just because a perfect answer doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a line.
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I'm not at all suggesting we shouldn't have a line, I'm suggesting no line fits well AND there are a Pandora's Box of other issues after that line is drawn by law.

If a woman cannot have an abortion legally because "that's murder by law" then can she be compelled to stop habits which might harm the child like smoking, drinking, drugs, etc? Why not? We will not let parents kill or harm children so........

My issue is how much right to make a woman a "vessel for another human" does the govt have after you tell her she MUST carry a human she actually doesn't want to carry?

MUST she seek healthcare? MUST she seek out a midwife, doula, physician for the birth?

How much interest in this embryo does the state get if the woman says, "Nope. You can make me not abort the embryo but you can't make me have prenatal nor birth healthcare." Can the govt force that issue also?
 
#37,683
#37,683
DinkinFlicka said:
He has... he's 180'd on the cease fire.
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Are you talking about Trump? Because I agree with his stance of not going for the cease fire which can break down at any moment to go for a lasting peace deal instead.

I might assume Trump knows more than we do on the matter and feel like if he thinks a permanent peace deal is achievable rather than a temporary cease fire, why not go for it?
 
#37,685
#37,685
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm not at all suggesting we shouldn't have a line, I'm suggesting no line fits well AND there are a Pandora's Box of other issues after that line is drawn by law.

If a woman cannot have an abortion legally because "that's murder by law" then can she be compelled to stop habits which might harm the child like smoking, drinking, drugs, etc? Why not? We will not let parents kill or harm children so........
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Many states already charge women who use hard drugs while pregnant.

SayUWantAreVOLution said:
My issue is how much right to make a woman a "vessel for another human" does the govt have after you tell her she MUST carry a human she actually doesn't want to carry?
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The woman makes herself a vessel for another human. Not the government.

SayUWantAreVOLution said:
MUST she seek healthcare? MUST she seek out a midwife, doula, physician for the birth?

How much interest in this embryo does the state get if the woman says, "Nope. You can make me not abort the embryo but you can't make me have prenatal nor birth healthcare." Can the govt force that issue also?
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I’ve never claimed a woman has to go to a hospital. I do think you open yourself up to legal action however if you intentionally make the decision to not seek care.

The same way we would all agree there’s valid times to charge people for neglect if they don’t see care for their child.
 
#37,689
#37,689
Vol8188 said:
Many states already charge women who use hard drugs while pregnant.



The woman makes herself a vessel for another human. Not the government.



I’ve never claimed a woman has to go to a hospital. I do think you open yourself up to legal action however if you intentionally make the decision to not seek care.

The same way we would all agree there’s valid times to charge people for neglect if they don’t see care for their child.
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The woman, however, who seeks and is denied that opportunity for an abortion DOESN'T choose to make herself a vessel anymore for a number of reasons. We DO allow parents to voluntarily give up custody and no longer take responsibility for that child. Does a pregnant woman lose those rights for 9 months?

Legal action from whom? Can the child of fetal alcohol syndrome or lung problems associated with low birth weight/poor lung development sue their parent for "not being a good pregnant woman?"

I'm not at all okay with turning pregnant woman, especially those who have a rape or oops pregnancy, into walking lawsuits.

Again, I'm extremely torn about this both ways. I don't want to be as barbaric as Israel nor do I want to go Handmaid's Tale on women I love.

It's not an easy problem at all.
 
#37,690
#37,690
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The woman, however, who seeks and is denied that opportunity for an abortion DOESN'T choose to make herself a vessel anymore for a number of reasons. We DO allow parents to voluntarily give up custody and no longer take responsibility for that child. Does a pregnant woman lose those rights for 9 months?
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Yes, she makes herself a vessel. Yes, the rights of a pregnant woman are different than those of others.

SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Legal action from whom? Can the child of fetal alcohol syndrome or lung problems associated with low birth weight/poor lung development sue their parent for "not being a good pregnant woman?"
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Legal action from the judicial systems. Multiple states charge women with neglect, endangerment, abuse etc.

SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm not at all okay with turning pregnant woman, especially those who have a rape or oops pregnancy, into walking lawsuits.
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You’re going down absurd rabbit holes with a lot of this. Every law has a slippery slope attached.

SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Again, I'm extremely torn about this both ways. I don't want to be as barbaric as Israel nor do I want to go Handmaid's Tale on women I love.

It's not an easy problem at all.
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Weird you keep singling out Israel.
 
#37,692
#37,692
Vol8188 said:
You’re welcome to start a charity in an effort to fill such gaps. I don’t disagree that we’ve yet to find a great system here, but I actually think foster kids receive Medicaid until 25 along with educational benefits and may remain in foster care until 21



I’m with you. I think the further you go, the worse morally it is, but I can’t pretend there’s an exact perfect date.



Telling you that you can’t kill your children doesn’t seem like a massive level of control.



Just because a perfect answer doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a line.
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i am a foster parent and they receive medicaid, free day care and college is paid 100% when they get to that age. We don’t reach out to any but there are plenty of charities to help with foster kids. We are blessed to be able to handle it without the extra help and would rather it be used for children in need.
 
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#37,696
#37,696
tRump is considering making cannabis a Schedule III drug. Anyone who is anyone knows this is Satan's choice of human destruction.







Who said Bill Maher going to the WH was a fool's errand? :)
 
#37,698
#37,698
BernardKingGOAT said:
Why? Ok

"Getting pregnant from rape can be a gift from God"

"A woman's pregnancy is between her, her Doctor and her Congressman"

And most recently:

" It doesn't take any talent to reproduce". That was from the clown pastor who Hegseth supports
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Zero of those quotes implied the mother’s life is of no importance. You failed
 
#37,699
#37,699
Vol8188 said:
Zero of those quotes implied the mother’s life is of no importance. You failed
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Ok. I failed. You feel better, Son?

I think they are diminishing the mother, because just like YOU and ME, they have no clue as to
what it takes physically and mentally to have a baby

We can disagree
 
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