Israel vs Palestinians II

#401
#401
OrangeTsar said:
The basics of human behavior and responsibilities are simple enough to be on the level of a seven year old. Fairness, sharing, honesty, and friendship should be well understood by that age. Also the rules of the playground including the realization that the person starting a fight is responsible for, well…..starting the fight.

Don’t overcomplicate basic things that have been universally understood for all of human history
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One kid starts a fight with another kid on the playground, second kid goes and grabs a gun and shoots everyone. But he can't be prosecuted because of the "universally understood" legal doctrine of "they started it," right? What a stupid outlook that is.

So much of MAGA's appeal to a lot of people is apparently the glorification of acting like a middle schooler as a grown adult
 
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#402
#402
OrangeTsar said:
Jesus actually said that we needed to become like children if we wish to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Part of “growing up” is how we learn To rationalize and make excuses for our behavior. The basic concepts of right and wrong are learned very early.
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"I can be a POS because they started it" is not even remotely a basic concept of right and wrong, it's an excuse used by toddlers to justify bad behavior
 
#404
#404
OrangeTsar said:
Jesus actually said that we needed to become like children if we wish to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Part of “growing up” is how we learn To rationalize and make excuses for our behavior. The basic concepts of right and wrong are learned very early.
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A double minded man is unstable in all his ways
 
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#405
#405
NashVol11 said:
"I can be a POS because they started it" is not even remotely a basic concept of right and wrong, it's an excuse used by toddlers to justify bad behavior
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But have you and others here not justified Palestinian “resistance” by saying Israel “started it” in 1948, 1967, or some other past point in history?
 
#407
#407
NashVol11 said:
One kid starts a fight with another kid on the playground, second kid goes and grabs a gun and shoots everyone. But he can't be prosecuted because of the "universally understood" legal doctrine of "they started it," right? What a stupid outlook that is.

So much of MAGA's appeal to a lot of people is apparently the glorification of acting like a middle schooler as a grown adult
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Interesting. Have you ever studied the different religious and philosophical discussions related to the concept of a “just war”?
Those hardly involve people with a “middle school” mindset.
 
#408
#408
NashVol11 said:
And approximately 1 second of critical thinking should lead you to the realization that "they started it so anything goes" is not one of them
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Who exactly has said “anything goes”? Do you believe Israel has used or is using every military asset which they posses? It appears to me that if “anything goes” in reality, the war would not be continuing.
 
#409
#409
OrangeTsar said:
But have you and others here not justified Palestinian “resistance” by saying Israel “started it” in 1948, 1967, or some other past point in history?
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No, people making that argument would describe "resistance" as resistance to the colonization and occupation (and now genocide and ethnic cleansing) that is currently happening, not as just revenge for the sake of revenge from 70 years ago. "Resistance" requires a thing to resist, not a historical grievance, so you should have known better
 
#411
#411
Whatever happens is NOT the same as “anything goes”. Whatever happens could mean that the person starting the fight slips and falls on the slick grass when throwing a punch. The defender has not even done anything yet the the instigator is still responsible for “whatever happened”.
Does that make sense?
 
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#412
#412
NashVol11 said:
No, people making that argument would describe "resistance" as resistance to the colonization and occupation (and now genocide and ethnic cleansing) that is currently happening, not as just revenge for the sake of revenge from 70 years ago. "Resistance" requires a thing to resist, not a historical grievance, so you should have known better
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But are not colonization and occupation “historical grievances” themselves?
 
#413
#413
OrangeTsar said:
Whatever happens is NOT the same as “anything goes”. Whatever happens could mean that the person starting the fight slips and falls on the slick grass when throwing a punch. The defender has not even done anything yet the the instigator is still responsible for “whatever happened”.
Does that make sense?
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The law certainly doesn’t work that way
 
#414
#414
OrangeTsar said:
Whatever happens is NOT the same as “anything goes”. Whatever happens could mean that the person starting the fight slips and falls on the slick grass when throwing a punch. The defender has not even done anything yet the the instigator is still responsible for “whatever happened”.
Does that make sense?
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If you punch me, and I pull a gun from my backpack and shoot everyone in the vicinity, the person who punched me is "responsible" for their deaths under that theory.

It is by definition anything goes. There is nothing that happens during a fight that would fall outside of "whatever happens," so anything that happens would fall within it. Israel would bear zero responsibility for nuking Gaza under that idiotic worldview
 
#416
#416
NashVol11 said:
One kid starts a fight with another kid on the playground, second kid goes and grabs a gun and shoots everyone. But he can't be prosecuted because of the "universally understood" legal doctrine of "they started it," right? What a stupid outlook that is.

So much of MAGA's appeal to a lot of people is apparently the glorification of acting like a middle schooler as a grown adult
Click to expand...
This is a very misleading analogy. The equivalent would be a smaller kid sucker punches a larger kid. The larger kid fights back and let's the kid know a left is coming before he throws it..... And then mixes in some misdirection as well. Bottom line is he's much better equipped and prepared for the fight. And the first kid was stupid to start it.

But at some point I would agree it's gone too far and dogs need to be called off.
 
#417
#417
KB5252 said:
This is a very misleading analogy. The equivalent would be a smaller kid sucker punches a larger kid. The larger kid fights back and let's the kid know a left is coming before he throws it..... And then mixes in some misdirection as well. Bottom line is he's much better equipped and prepared for the fight. And the first kid was stupid to start it.

But at some point I would agree it's gone too far and dogs need to be called off.
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My playground post wasn't about Israel per se, just giving an example to illustrate how easily that worldview falls apart
 
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#418
#418
NashVol11 said:
"I can be a POS because they started it" is not even remotely a basic concept of right and wrong, it's an excuse used by toddlers to justify bad behavior
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Refusing to call both sides currently in conflict pieces of **** is a problem too no?
 
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#419
#419
KB5252 said:
Refusing to call both sides currently in conflict pieces of **** is a problem too no?
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Regarding my generalized example, I'm not sure that's a problem. Regarding this conflict specifically, everyone here has condemned Hamas so the ones refusing to do it for both sides would be the pro-Israel folks
 
#420
#420
KB5252 said:
Refusing to call both sides currently in conflict pieces of **** is a problem too no?
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The two sides are not the same.

It’s like comparing the Nazi’s to the Americans during WWII

Israel is fighting for its survival while they are fighting to annihilate them.


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