Official Gramps' Memorial Eternal OT Thread

[JOEY’S ALL VOL !!!]

Funny story:

Bid on a project for a western Mid TN county, 6 of the 7 bids were disqualified because of the same page missing from each bid packet which leaves only the highest bidder with a qualified bid. They didn't like my comment of "if you're going to rig a bid ya gotta be smarter than this".

The devil is in the details.

 

[JOEY’S ALL VOL !!!]

Oh Lawwdy ain’t that the truth ...

 

[marcusluvsvols]

Landed another top 100 player at LB today in high 4* Rouse. Beat out UGA and texas. Paired with top 100 LB White from last week...wow. BOTH White and Rouse are too 5 LBs in the country on 24/7. We landed 2 really good LBs in last years class also. Coach Inge has completely transformed the LB room. Its gonna be as good as anyone in the country for the next 4 years.

We also landed another high 3* Corner from Tennessee. Beat out Misery, soukerlina and others for him. He is fast. This is a monster class on the defensive side of the ball, on the Oline, and a few offensive players that are super good.

I STILL think this can be CJH best class so far at UT. We are still in on a couple 5* guys. We have picked up 2 guys in this class that will be starters on the Oline and we are still in on another 5* and a top100 4* as well. May end up the best Oline class in at least 20 years. Next couple weeks will tell.

 

[LouderVol]

The devil is in the details.

I am not sure if its a folk story or not but there is the "brown M&M" story that goes around for Architects as a good way to weed out qualified bidders.

Architects are responsible for providing 2 things to the bidders, drawings and the specs. the drawings are typically 24x36 pieces of paper, and the sets are usually a couple hundred pages to go thru. the specs are all the words that describe the products and procedures we want followed, and is typically several thousand pages long, 8.5x11.

the devil in the details is to slip in a requirement that the GCs must bring a bowl of M&Ms with only the brown M&Ms to the bid meeting. it doesn't get completely buried, it gets placed with all the other requirements on the bid documents the GCs must provide, total costs, break down on materials, schedule, whatever whatever, brown M&Ms, whatever.

never seen it done, but I have always wanted to do that. especially on government jobs where you know you are going to get stuck with the crappy low bid, who is going to have so many change orders they come in way over the highest bidder.

 

[hog88]

I am not sure if its a folk story or not but there is the "brown M&M" story that goes around for Architects as a good way to weed out qualified bidders.

Architects are responsible for providing 2 things to the bidders, drawings and the specs. the drawings are typically 24x36 pieces of paper, and the sets are usually a couple hundred pages to go thru. the specs are all the words that describe the products and procedures we want followed, and is typically several thousand pages long, 8.5x11.

the devil in the details is to slip in a requirement that the GCs must bring a bowl of M&Ms with only the brown M&Ms to the bid meeting. it doesn't get completely buried, it gets placed with all the other requirements on the bid documents the GCs must provide, total costs, break down on materials, schedule, whatever whatever, brown M&Ms, whatever.

never seen it done, but I have always wanted to do that. especially on government jobs where you know you are going to get stuck with the crappy low bid, who is going to have so many change orders they come in way over the highest bidder.

If that's not just an old wives tale and it has really happened that's epic.

In our case it was an insignificant page about the when the bids were due and when they would be opened and it required a signature. No Fing way all but one bidder missed that page, the engineer that sent out the bid packets didn't include it. I don't know about the others but it wasn't in the packet we got through email.

 

[LouderVol]

If that's not just an old wives tale and it has really happened that's epic.

In our case it was an insignificant page about the when the bids were due and when they would be opened and it required a signature. No Fing way all but one bidder missed that page, the engineer that sent out the bid packets didn't include it. I don't know about the others but it wasn't in the packet we got through email.

I don't know about your world, but in public money building construction any/all bid forms that needed to be filled out have to be supplied to everyone. if they aren't its a rebid. even in the private field that would be a good case for a lawsuit, guarantees you never work with the client, so its not good practice, but it would be grounds in an open bid situation.

definitely sounds like collusion. if it is public it may be worth reaching out to the public office team and pointing out how there was only one bid considered its not a fair/open bid.

do yall get a bid package from the host? or how is it done for you guys?

 

[hog88]

I don't know about your world, but in public money building construction any/all bid forms that needed to be filled out have to be supplied to everyone. if they aren't its a rebid. even in the private field that would be a good case for a lawsuit, guarantees you never work with the client, so its not good practice, but it would be grounds in an open bid situation.

definitely sounds like collusion. if it is public it may be worth reaching out to the public office team and pointing out how there was only one bid considered its not a fair/open bid.

do yall get a bid package from the host? or how is it done for you guys?

This was a bid for some county work building a retention pond in their industrial park, they have a consultant who ran the bidding. The bid is being disputed by a couple other bidders and I'm pretty confident it will be rebid or they'll change their mind on the disqualifications. I've seen some shenanigans bidding govt work before but this was the sloppiest attempt at rigging a bid that I have witnessed. We're out, I'm sure that whoever ends up doing the work will be harassed to the point of losing money on the job.

 

[LouderVol]

This was a bid for some county work building a retention pond in their industrial park, they have a consultant who ran the bidding. The bid is being disputed by a couple other bidders and I'm pretty confident it will be rebid or they'll change their mind on the disqualifications. I've seen some shenanigans bidding govt work before but this was the sloppiest attempt at rigging a bid that I have witnessed. We're out, I'm sure that whoever ends up doing the work will be harassed to the point of losing money on the job.

yeah it can be a sign that the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

 

[McDad]

I am not sure if its a folk story or not but there is the "brown M&M" story that goes around for Architects as a good way to weed out qualified bidders.

Architects are responsible for providing 2 things to the bidders, drawings and the specs. the drawings are typically 24x36 pieces of paper, and the sets are usually a couple hundred pages to go thru. the specs are all the words that describe the products and procedures we want followed, and is typically several thousand pages long, 8.5x11.

the devil in the details is to slip in a requirement that the GCs must bring a bowl of M&Ms with only the brown M&Ms to the bid meeting. it doesn't get completely buried, it gets placed with all the other requirements on the bid documents the GCs must provide, total costs, break down on materials, schedule, whatever whatever, brown M&Ms, whatever.

never seen it done, but I have always wanted to do that. especially on government jobs where you know you are going to get stuck with the crappy low bid, who is going to have so many change orders they come in way over the highest bidder.

I think there is an account of Affleck and Damon doing similar on the Good Will Hunting script. I think the story goes they put in a sex scene between Will and the Psychiatrist just to see who actually read the script when they were shopping it around. Only one guy brought it up as a concern. That's the guy they chose to produce/sell rights/whatever.

 

[marcusluvsvols]

4* safety from UGA picked us today. Thats 10 guys in 10 days IIRC. Boom

 

[marcusluvsvols]

We got a prediction from both Wiltfong and Simmons to land HIGH 4* bluechip OTackle Shabazz from NC this week too.

This Oline class is gonna be amazing

 

[Vol423]

If that's not just an old wives tale and it has really happened that's epic.

In our case it was an insignificant page about the when the bids were due and when they would be opened and it required a signature. No Fing way all but one bidder missed that page, the engineer that sent out the bid packets didn't include it. I don't know about the others but it wasn't in the packet we got through email.

Speaking of old wives. Check out this story.

Dwight Howard’s wife files for divorce just six months into marriage

The couple went public with their relationship in December, revealing that they were engaged on Instagram.

nypost.com

"Rose requested alimony and asked that all marital assets and property be “equitably divided” by the courts."

Equitably, in this case, should mean she walks with what she had the day of their wedding.

 

[Orangeburst]

Over 20 years I musta bid several hundreds of projects…had one mechanical in Houston that sent me everything and the President of the company admitted to me that he knows he is paying more for my bids, but knows he can trust me.

Made me feel good to get a premium..

 

[Orangeburst]

nm

 

[McDad]

Over 20 years I musta bid several hundreds of projects…had one mechanical in Houston that sent me everything and the President of the company admitted to me that he knows he is paying more for my bids, but knows he can trust me.

Made me feel good to get a premium..

What's the old cliche ..it takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a moment to destroy it...or something like that.

 

[Orangeburst]

What's the old cliche ..it takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a moment to destroy it...or something like that.

I worked in Huntsville and was at trade show one night and passed a guy that had the same name as me as seen on his name tag..kinda freaked me out as we walked past each other. Funny because I was getting credit collection calls and realized thats him..Anyways, next day I had to go to Arab and still had my name tag on my jacket..young receptionist said to me I used to date him..and next stop another receptionist said same thing! Kinda nutz, but he must of been a playa..lol

Anyways, fast foward a few years and I took a new position in Chatt and the guy I workedwith said he was at TVA downtown and said I was banned from TVA facilities, And they were our biggest customer! Turns out this dude was obviously a salesman calling on same industry and had bad reputation, that followed me..it was pretty wild considering my name isnt John Smith..lol

 

[McDad]

I worked in Huntsville and was at trade show one night and passed a guy that had the same name as me as seen on his name tag..kinda freaked me out as we walked past each other. Funny because I was getting credit collection calls and realized thats him..Anyways, next day I had to go to Arab and still had my name tag on my jacket..young receptionist said to me I used to date him..and next stop another receptionist said same thing! Kinda nutz, but he must of been a playa..lol

Anyways, fast foward a few years and I took a new position in Chatt and the guy I workedwith said he was at TVA downtown and said I was banned from TVA facilities, And they were our biggest customer! Turns out this dude was obviously a salesman calling on same industry and had bad reputation, that followed me..it was pretty wild considering my name isnt John Smith..lol

That could be a great icebreaker tbh.

 

[LouderVol]

Speaking of old wives. Check out this story.

Dwight Howard’s wife files for divorce just six months into marriage

The couple went public with their relationship in December, revealing that they were engaged on Instagram.

nypost.com

"Rose requested alimony and asked that all marital assets and property be “equitably divided” by the courts."

Equitably, in this case, should mean she walks with what she had the day of their wedding.

at worst only the money he earned since then, and any new assets. that is probably not peanuts, but I doubt its anywhere close to what she is expecting.

 

[LouderVol]

Over 20 years I musta bid several hundreds of projects…had one mechanical in Houston that sent me everything and the President of the company admitted to me that he knows he is paying more for my bids, but knows he can trust me.

Made me feel good to get a premium..

my last firm had a developer that would hire us to do a job or two, then not hire us for 3 years, then come back and hire us again. I asked my boss about it. he said our work was the best the client could get, but he didn't like paying us for it. so he would take our work and shop it around, he always bought the right to do that so no big deal. but he had to keep coming back because he couldn't find cheaper to do it as good as we did.

another client I got us fired from because I put my foot down on a waterproofing detail at roof deck for some townhomes. that client didn't want to pay for that detail and kept pushing us to do something cheaper. my boss and I talked about it enough where we stood firm. they bought out the project from us, gave it to another architect to finish up. less than a year after construction every single townhome had a tarp on their roof decks. I can't say for 100% that it was the detail in question, or that our solution would have worked. but dang if that didn't feel good. that client eventually came back under new management and no longer tried to nickel and dime our waterproofing details.

 

[hog88]

my last firm had a developer that would hire us to do a job or two, then not hire us for 3 years, then come back and hire us again. I asked my boss about it. he said our work was the best the client could get, but he didn't like paying us for it. so he would take our work and shop it around, he always bought the right to do that so no big deal. but he had to keep coming back because he couldn't find cheaper to do it as good as we did.

another client I got us fired from because I put my foot down on a waterproofing detail at roof deck for some townhomes. that client didn't want to pay for that detail and kept pushing us to do something cheaper. my boss and I talked about it enough where we stood firm. they bought out the project from us, gave it to another architect to finish up. less than a year after construction every single townhome had a tarp on their roof decks. I can't say for 100% that it was the detail in question, or that our solution would have worked. but dang if that didn't feel good. that client eventually came back under new management and no longer tried to nickel and dime our waterproofing details.

I haven’t ran the numbers but I’d bet big that our installation side has made more money fixing other contractors screwups/shoddy work than initial builds or installs.

 

[LouderVol]

I haven’t ran the numbers but I’d bet big that our installation side has made more money fixing other contractors screwups/shoddy work than initial builds or installs.

I would believe it. just in general its a liability nightmare going into clean someone else's mess us unless you get to bulldoze and start from scratch. the extra work needs some extra profit to make it worth while.

I assume you have some sort of "cost plus" reasoning behind your fees.

 

[hog88]

I would believe it. just in general its a liability nightmare going into clean someone else's mess us unless you get to bulldoze and start from scratch. the extra work needs some extra profit to make it worth while.

I assume you have some sort of "cost plus" reasoning behind your fees.

We’ll do cost plus and lump sum work, in either case we build a detailed SOW and exclusions.

 

[McDad]

my last firm had a developer that would hire us to do a job or two, then not hire us for 3 years, then come back and hire us again. I asked my boss about it. he said our work was the best the client could get, but he didn't like paying us for it. so he would take our work and shop it around, he always bought the right to do that so no big deal. but he had to keep coming back because he couldn't find cheaper to do it as good as we did.

another client I got us fired from because I put my foot down on a waterproofing detail at roof deck for some townhomes. that client didn't want to pay for that detail and kept pushing us to do something cheaper. my boss and I talked about it enough where we stood firm. they bought out the project from us, gave it to another architect to finish up. less than a year after construction every single townhome had a tarp on their roof decks. I can't say for 100% that it was the detail in question, or that our solution would have worked. but dang if that didn't feel good. that client eventually came back under new management and no longer tried to nickel and dime our waterproofing details.

Louder seeing those tarps:

 

[marcusluvsvols]

my last firm had a developer that would hire us to do a job or two, then not hire us for 3 years, then come back and hire us again. I asked my boss about it. he said our work was the best the client could get, but he didn't like paying us for it. so he would take our work and shop it around, he always bought the right to do that so no big deal. but he had to keep coming back because he couldn't find cheaper to do it as good as we did.

another client I got us fired from because I put my foot down on a waterproofing detail at roof deck for some townhomes. that client didn't want to pay for that detail and kept pushing us to do something cheaper. my boss and I talked about it enough where we stood firm. they bought out the project from us, gave it to another architect to finish up. less than a year after construction every single townhome had a tarp on their roof decks. I can't say for 100% that it was the detail in question, or that our solution would have worked. but dang if that didn't feel good. that client eventually came back under new management and no longer tried to nickel and dime our waterproofing details.

Similar process is killing our company right now. There are a couple of upstart competitors in Charlotte bidding the same apartment complexes that we bid...they are undercutting our bids by intentionally(or being ignorant) leaving stuff out when they price these projects...then killing the GCs with change orders and ending up more expensive than we were to begin with. After a few projects of this, the GCs will likely figure this out and start choosing us again for all their work. Unfortunately, this is compounded by the fact that interest rates are still high and owners groups believe that they are coming back down...so they are waiting to break ground on projects we have already bid. Half a % or 1% is a lot of money on a $40 or $50million dollar loan.

The combination of the 2 things above has us really slow right now though. 2 superintendents like me have been laid off. There are 5 of us left. My boss has told me before that i will be the last man standing if they only have work for 1 super. Doesnt bring me much comfort though because theres too much overhead for this company to do 1 job at a time. He will just retire early at my age...he already wants to retire anyway. Hope things really pick up soon. I have been working for him 15 years and have no desire to go elsewhere.

 

[LouderVol]

Louder seeing those tarps:
View attachment 754325

oh I still get a chuckle about it now, years later.

100% chance if there is someone in my car as I drive past them I will retell that story. My fiance' has heard it at least a dozen times and now just rolls her eyes.