President Donald Trump - J.D. Vance Administration

[volbeast33]

 

[Orange_Crush]

 

[McDad]

A US citizen?

No sir. Citizens have documents

 

[LouderVol]

It's a challenge to produce a social security number and a copy of your birth certificate?

you carry your birth certificate?

I have been told one of the issues with illegals is that many of them had social security numbers they were using. assuming the person in question is somewhat intelligent about whatever SSN they are fraudulently using they are going to know the name of the individual actually attached to it.

you are acting like all ICE needs to see is a library card to know if you are actually a citizen. if that is all it takes, great, but then they clearly aren't doing their job if its a low threshold that a non-citizen could clear.

you need to pick a lane. either ICE has the data, will, and power to actually tell if you are a citizen, to get the illegal out. or they are just accepting any old justification if you claim you are a citizen so we don't have to worry about our rights getting trampled because a firm handshake will do.

 

[Orange_Crush]

you carry your birth certificate?

I have been told one of the issues with illegals is that many of them had social security numbers they were using. assuming the person in question is somewhat intelligent about whatever SSN they are fraudulently using they are going to know the name of the individual actually attached to it.

you are acting like all ICE needs to see is a library card to know if you are actually a citizen. if that is all it takes, great, but then they clearly aren't doing their job if its a low threshold that a non-citizen could clear.

you need to pick a lane. either ICE has the data, will, and power to actually tell if you are a citizen, to get the illegal out. or they are just accepting any old justification if you claim you are a citizen so we don't have to worry about our rights getting trampled because a firm handshake will do.

My screenshot says that ICE will accept a SSN and driver's license as proof. Apparently, they'd rather let the odd illegal go in a street encounter, as opposed to taking a US citizen into custody.

(I hope you noticed that that points out your excluded middle hyperbole about "any old justification".)

 

[LouderVol]

View attachment 747900

Do you have a driver's license, and can you recite your SSN?

US immigration agents mistakenly detain deputy marshal in Arizona

Deputy marshal ‘fit general description of a subject being sought’ and was briefly detained, Marshals Service says

www.theguardian.com

I guess this US marshall couldn't do either.

I don't travel with enough friendly law enforcement to back me up to get me out of the clutches of ICE at the point of contact.

and you need to explain to me why I need or should have to prove my innocence. regardless of if I can provide the needed paperwork or not.

 

[Orange_Crush]

US immigration agents mistakenly detain deputy marshal in Arizona

Deputy marshal ‘fit general description of a subject being sought’ and was briefly detained, Marshals Service says

www.theguardian.com

I guess this US marshall couldn't do either.

I don't travel with enough friendly law enforcement to back me up to get me out of the clutches of ICE at the point of contact.

and you need to explain to me why I need or should have to prove my innocence. regardless of if I can provide the needed paperwork or not.

Possibly not. When and where was he detained? In uniform? At his home? Out and about when he'd left his wallet in the other pants? There is no indication in the article that he showed any documents to support his claims to citizenship.

You have to prove your innocence every time you're pulled over and they demand a driver's license, registration and proof of insurance.

You are making assumptions about the law enforcement officers that ended up confirming his identity. It couldn't be a part of the process that anyone would have gotten?

Your argument is that you fear a citizen won't be able to prove identity if detained, and linked to an article that shows a US citizen's identity was confirmed after a brief detention.

It also says that ICE is putting illegals into an Alternative To Detention system, which means they are released with ankle monitors. It seems a citizen who is free to move about their lives could get the paperwork they need to prove their citizenship.

No part of that article supported your argument.

 

[McDad]

you carry your birth certificate?

I have been told one of the issues with illegals is that many of them had social security numbers they were using. assuming the person in question is somewhat intelligent about whatever SSN they are fraudulently using they are going to know the name of the individual actually attached to it.

you are acting like all ICE needs to see is a library card to know if you are actually a citizen. if that is all it takes, great, but then they clearly aren't doing their job if its a low threshold that a non-citizen could clear.

you need to pick a lane. either ICE has the data, will, and power to actually tell if you are a citizen, to get the illegal out. or they are just accepting any old justification if you claim you are a citizen so we don't have to worry about our rights getting trampled because a firm handshake will do.

I carry a physical driver's license my physical Social Security card and a pic of both of those as well as my birth certificate as a picture on my phone.

Furthermore, when I am visiting a country like Japan I have my passport with me at all times and I have a picture of my passport on my phone. I am prepared to prove who I am at a moment's notice.

What documentation did you carry on your person when you were visiting other countries?

 

[LouderVol]

You have to prove your innocence every time you're pulled over and they demand a driver's license, registration and proof of insurance.

You are making assumptions about the law enforcement officers that ended up confirming his identity. There is no indication in the article that he showed any documents to support his claims to citizenship.

Your argument is that you fear a citizen won't be able to prove identity if detained, and linked to an article that shows a US citizen's identity was confirmed after a brief detention.

It also says that ICE is putting illegals into an Alternative To Detention system, which means they are released with ankle monitors. It seems a citizen who is free to move about their lives could get the paperwork they need to prove their citizenship.

No part of that article supported your argument.

View attachment 747903
View attachment 747904

oh so its fine, because I can wear an ankle monitor until I prove my innocence. yeah that makes me feel better.

none of your argument is helping you either. it all boils down to: trust the government stepping on your rights because...it hasn't gone wrong yet, and there is more than just prison they can slap you with.

 

[hog88]

US immigration agents mistakenly detain deputy marshal in Arizona

Deputy marshal ‘fit general description of a subject being sought’ and was briefly detained, Marshals Service says

www.theguardian.com

I guess this US marshall couldn't do either.

I don't travel with enough friendly law enforcement to back me up to get me out of the clutches of ICE at the point of contact.

and you need to explain to me why I need or should have to prove my innocence. regardless of if I can provide the needed paperwork or not.

LOL did you read the article or only the headline. The Marshal was briefly detained, the whole thing lasted minutes before his identity was confirmed.

 

[Orange_Crush]

oh so its fine, because I can wear an ankle monitor until I prove my innocence. yeah that makes me feel better.

none of your argument is helping you either. it all boils down to: trust the government stepping on your rights because...it hasn't gone wrong yet, and there is more than just prison they can slap you with.

AAAANNNNDDDDD... Back to your patented slippery slope fallacies. Congrats.

And FTR, nothing is going to make you feel better. You invent possible fears to live as reality.

 

[Orange_Crush]

LOL did you read the article or only the headline. The Marshal was briefly detained, the whole thing lasted minutes before his identity was confirmed.

Maybe he'll ignore those points in your reply as well.

 

[LouderVol]

I carry a physical driver's license my physical Social Security card and a pic of both of those as well as my birth certificate as a picture on my phone.

Furthermore, when I am visiting a country like Japan I have my passport with me at all times and I have a picture of my passport on my phone. I am prepared to prove who I am at a moment's notice.

What documentation did you carry on your person when you were visiting other countries?

a passport was all I carried. I was traveling with my sisters and we each carried photo copies of each others passports while we traveled.

I certainly don't carry it or my SS card everyday, or really any day in the US. so I am not sure why you think a citizen should act like they are in a foreign country while in the US.

considering I have lost a phone before and not realized it for a couple hours, and not had the ability to remotely wipe it for a couple more hours, I certainly don't trust keeping a photo of anything with my SS on it. plus the possibility of it getting hacked, that option gives me the willies.

 

[LouderVol]

LOL did you read the article or only the headline. The Marshal was briefly detained, the whole thing lasted minutes before his identity was confirmed.

confirmed by other law enforcement who vouched for him.

you got a 1-800 number of cops I can call at a moments notice to come vouch for me?

 

[hog88]

confirmed by other law enforcement who vouched for him.

you got a 1-800 number of cops I can call at a moments notice to come vouch for me?

Sounds like the guy wasn't carrying any identification if he needed someone to vouch for him so I'd say things worked the way they should have.

 

[Orange_Crush]

confirmed by other law enforcement who vouched for him.

you got a 1-800 number of cops I can call at a moments notice to come vouch for me?

You are making assumptions about who these other law enforcement officers were and how they became involved in the affair.

 

[McDad]

a passport was all I carried. I was traveling with my sisters and we each carried photo copies of each others passports while we traveled.

I certainly don't carry it or my SS card everyday, or really any day in the US. so I am not sure why you think a citizen should act like they are in a foreign country while in the US.

considering I have lost a phone before and not realized it for a couple hours, and not had the ability to remotely wipe it for a couple more hours, I certainly don't trust keeping a photo of anything with my SS on it. plus the possibility of it getting hacked, that option gives me the willies.

Okay. What you carry daily is reasonable. The question I have is, why did you choose to carry those other items in another country with you and why did your siblings have duplicates?

 

[Orange_Crush]

a passport was all I carried. I was traveling with my sisters and we each carried photo copies of each others passports while we traveled.

I certainly don't carry it or my SS card everyday, or really any day in the US. so I am not sure why you think a citizen should act like they are in a foreign country while in the US.

considering I have lost a phone before and not realized it for a couple hours, and not had the ability to remotely wipe it for a couple more hours, I certainly don't trust keeping a photo of anything with my SS on it. plus the possibility of it getting hacked, that option gives me the willies.

Can you show a driver's license and recite your SSN? It seems they accept that combination.

 

[C-south]

a passport was all I carried. I was traveling with my sisters and we each carried photo copies of each others passports while we traveled.

I certainly don't carry it or my SS card everyday, or really any day in the US. so I am not sure why you think a citizen should act like they are in a foreign country while in the US.

considering I have lost a phone before and not realized it for a couple hours, and not had the ability to remotely wipe it for a couple more hours, I certainly don't trust keeping a photo of anything with my SS on it. plus the possibility of it getting hacked, that option gives me the willies.

You got an iPhone? Just scan everything you think you may possibly need and save it in the files folder.

 

[appvol]

How long before the Democrats after Trump does this military stuff they say he is going to start a war so Trump can keep being President after 4 years

 

[McDad]

Can you show a driver's license and recite your SSN? It seems they accept that combination.

I can recite my DL and my SS #s.

I've been carrying DL.and SS card since I got my DL at 16.

 

[hog88]

Putting more thought into Louders little trip down the rabbit hole.

What would I do if ICE randomly asked for me to prove my legal status. Well, the first thing I would do is ask if they have a warrant or what reason are they asking. Since they wouldn't have a warrant and probably no valid/legal reason to ask I would next tell them to piss off (respectfully of course). If they decided to take me in, fine. A lawsuit would be dropped shortly after and hopefully I get enough out of it to buy a new boat. Plus all the money I would get selling my "traumatic" experience story to CNN and MSNBC.

 

[LouderVol]

AAAANNNNDDDDD... Back to your patented slippery slope fallacies. Congrats.

And FTR, nothing is going to make you feel better. You invent possible fears to live as reality.

the government overstepping its bounds is a logical fallacy in your world? must be a nice place.
surely we can just get rid of the Constitution now. I already know you don't believe in innocence until proven guilty. the rest of it you just trust the government. beautiful.

In October 2016 I didn't own any guns, even when Hillary looked sure to win. never was worried the dems were going to be able to do anything unConstitutional regarding guns. December 2016, after Trump had won, I went out and bought my first gun, because I didn't trust him to be Constitutional. couple years later and a supreme court ruling later turns out I was right to not trust Trump to be Constitutional.

Trump has established himself as a politician I don't trust. there is no slippery slope fallacy, its been established as reality.

you can't act like the government's, or Trumps, actions happen in a vacuum and should only be considered in the light of the knowledge we have about that exact circumstance without looking at any other data points. its why the Constitution has always been a limit on the government, and not the people.

 

[Orange_Crush]

oh so its fine, because I can wear an ankle monitor until I prove my innocence. yeah that makes me feel better.

none of your argument is helping you either. it all boils down to: trust the government stepping on your rights because...it hasn't gone wrong yet, and there is more than just prison they can slap you with.

the government overstepping its bounds is a logical fallacy in your world? must be a nice place.
surely we can just get rid of the Constitution now. I already know you don't believe in innocence until proven guilty. the rest of it you just trust the government. beautiful.

In October 2016 I didn't own any guns, even when Hillary looked sure to win. never was worried the dems were going to be able to do anything unConstitutional regarding guns. December 2016, after Trump had won, I went out and bought my first gun, because I didn't trust him to be Constitutional. couple years later and a supreme court ruling later turns out I was right to not trust Trump to be Constitutional.

Trump has established himself as a politician I don't trust. there is no slippery slope fallacy, its been established as reality.

you can't act like the government's, or Trumps, actions happen in a vacuum and should only be considered in the light of the knowledge we have about that exact circumstance without looking at any other data points. its why the Constitution has always been a limit on the government, and not the people.

 

[C-south]

Putting more thought into Louders little trip down the rabbit hole.

What would I do if ICE randomly asked for me to prove my legal status. Well, the first thing I would do is ask if they have a warrant or what reason are they asking. Since they wouldn't have a warrant and probably no valid/legal reason to ask I would next tell them to piss off (respectfully of course). If they decided to take me in, fine. A lawsuit would be dropped shortly after and hopefully I get enough out of it to buy a new boat. Plus all the money I would get selling my "traumatic" experience story to CNN and MSNBC.

You might want to push them to rough you up a bit because you know the feds especially are gonna have some qualified immunity.