Trump Ignores the Courts

#2,102
#2,102
Orange_Crush said:
Looks like the system at work.

Also, I see you are still misrepresenting the AEA, even after it's been pointed out repeatedly. Not a good look.



I'll also remind you that there is official Congressional correspondence to the DHS secretary that Venezuela purposefully off-shored their TDA gang problem to the US and refused to accept them back. So, it likely falls under the predatory incursion via foreign nation/state.




Can you quote where Trump said he's looking to see how he can apply the AEA to US citizens?




And for the record, you literally just described a slippery slope fallacy.
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did Venezuela drop them off at the border, or somehow facilitate them getting into the US? Because if that was the case, I would agree that Section 1 applies. But I don't think thats the case, which is why I have referenced Section 2 in AEA. so no I haven't misrepresented it, I disagree with how its being applied.

granted there are very few differences between the two. AEA is being used more out of convenience rather than any real justification. Venezuela is not using TdA to destabilize our government, and gangs have been an issue for a long time. so unless there is some type directive, or cooperation between TdA and the government of Venezuela I don't think it applies to AEA section 1.

"“We always have to obey the laws, but we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head with a baseball bat when they’re not looking, that are absolute monsters,” Trump told reporters with Bukele at his side. “I’d like to include them.”"


and it wasn't just typical empty talk. They are actively looking into it. and considering how little of a process there is, there isn't going to be much time from them declaring that they will remove citizens, to it actually happening.

"That is a “legal question that the president is looking into,” White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said at her Tuesday briefing.

Trump wants to protect families by deporting “Americans who are the most violent, egregious offenders of crime, who nobody in this room wants living in their communities,” she said."

If Biden was looking into the legalities of removing US citizens from the country under AEA you would be up in arms.
 
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#2,104
#2,104
LouderVol said:
did Venezuela drop them off at the border, or somehow facilitate them getting into the US? Because if that was the case, I would agree that Section 1 applies. But I don't think thats the case, which is why I have referenced Section 2 in AEA. so no I haven't misrepresented it, I disagree with how its being applied.

granted there are very few differences between the two. AEA is being used more out of convenience rather than any real justification. Venezuela is not using TdA to destabilize our government, and gangs have been an issue for a long time. so unless there is some type directive, or cooperation between TdA and the government of Venezuela I don't think it applies to AEA section 1.

"“We always have to obey the laws, but we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head with a baseball bat when they’re not looking, that are absolute monsters,” Trump told reporters with Bukele at his side. “I’d like to include them.”"


and it wasn't just typical empty talk. They are actively looking into it. and considering how little of a process there is, there isn't going to be much time from them declaring that they will remove citizens, to it actually happening.

"That is a “legal question that the president is looking into,” White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said at her Tuesday briefing.

Trump wants to protect families by deporting “Americans who are the most violent, egregious offenders of crime, who nobody in this room wants living in their communities,” she said."

If Biden was looking into the legalities of removing US citizens from the country under AEA you would be up in arms.
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It's not your call.

I see no mention of AEA, as you claimed.

Indicating he's planning to do things legally.

I see your word "deport" isn't in quotes.

Don't be so arrogant as to attribute your fallacies to me.
 
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#2,105
#2,105
LouderVol said:
did Venezuela drop them off at the border, or somehow facilitate them getting into the US? Because if that was the case, I would agree that Section 1 applies. But I don't think thats the case, which is why I have referenced Section 2 in AEA. so no I haven't misrepresented it, I disagree with how its being applied.
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50 U.S.C. 23 only applies if the person being removed is already in the jurisdiction of a criminal court, if the person has been detained via criminal process than the court has jurisdiction over the individual a determination as to his removal is done by the court. Absent the existence of criminal jurisdiction, and the executive branch detains the subject of the Proclamation than they can be immediately deported see 50 U.S.C. 21.

The court is simply not involved unless the subject can possibly invoke the jurisdiction of the court for judicial review, one possible way previously outlined is habeas before removal.
 
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#2,107
#2,107
just bob said:
Love to see around 20+ million more of these cases.
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I think that is where I am. I mean, if there is no injustice i.e. legal citizens which are being harmed... using the Act would be a success. The issue is, if you do it at scale, eventually there could be a problem, but that seem fairly small if one uses the immigration process for the determination of their legal status.

The Gracia case is an excellent example imo - that is why I am confused as to them trying to use that as some type of horror. Its actually success story. I say give the Orange man some leash here and see where it goes, nothing wrong with a little push back either.

Furthermore, the article seems somewhat wrong i.e. my reading of the order and Alito is a little different than that... but than again its a confusing order.
 
#2,108
#2,108
LouderVol said:
did Venezuela drop them off at the border, or somehow facilitate them getting into the US? Because if that was the case, I would agree that Section 1 applies. But I don't think thats the case, which is why I have referenced Section 2 in AEA. so no I haven't misrepresented it, I disagree with how its being applied.

granted there are very few differences between the two. AEA is being used more out of convenience rather than any real justification. Venezuela is not using TdA to destabilize our government, and gangs have been an issue for a long time. so unless there is some type directive, or cooperation between TdA and the government of Venezuela I don't think it applies to AEA section 1.

"“We always have to obey the laws, but we also have homegrown criminals that push people into subways, that hit elderly ladies on the back of the head with a baseball bat when they’re not looking, that are absolute monsters,” Trump told reporters with Bukele at his side. “I’d like to include them.”"


and it wasn't just typical empty talk. They are actively looking into it. and considering how little of a process there is, there isn't going to be much time from them declaring that they will remove citizens, to it actually happening.

"That is a “legal question that the president is looking into,” White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said at her Tuesday briefing.

Trump wants to protect families by deporting “Americans who are the most violent, egregious offenders of crime, who nobody in this room wants living in their communities,” she said."

If Biden was looking into the legalities of removing US citizens from the country under AEA you would be up in arms.
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😂
 
#2,109
#2,109
LouderVol said:
did Venezuela drop them off at the border, or somehow facilitate them getting into the US?
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Barely a year ago, DHS found the reports credible enough to lambast the previous(Biden) administration not taking preventative measures to curtail it.
LouderVol said:
Because if that was the case, I would agree that Section 1 applies. But I don't think thats the case, which is why I have referenced Section 2 in AEA. so no I haven't misrepresented it, I disagree with how its being applied.

granted there are very few differences between the two. AEA is being used more out of convenience rather than any real justification. Venezuela is not using TdA to destabilize our government, and gangs have been an issue for a long time. so unless there is some type directive, or cooperation between TdA and the government of Venezuela I don't think it applies to AEA section 1.
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Besides a foreign country openly declaring war, what meets your parameters for a CiC invoking AEA by proclamation under the section @Orange_Crush cited? A congressional letter from the acting(at the time) Secretary U.S. Department of Homeland Security indicating the reports are credible isn't enough? Does CiC need the ICC or the UN security council to validate the report?
 
#2,116
#2,116
BeardedVol said:
Mike Lee should put his money where his mouth is, and file articles of impeachment against the judges that he believes have committed impeachable offenses.

He won't though, because tweets like these are purely for people like you to lap up and repost on here.
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And maybe he knows how much of a waste of time filing impeachment charges would be.
 
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#2,117
#2,117
W.TN.Orange Blood said:
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Such a tool. Trying to inherit the MAGA crown when Trump fades into oblivion. Going to be fun watching guys like this, or MJT, Vance, DeSantis, falling all over themselves to make the most ridiculous claims they can conjure up, out-moroning each other to appeal to the MAGA masses.
 
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