War in Ukraine

A civil war in which the Confederate states had no legal basis to exist under the US constitution.

Don't like it? Change the Constitution to allow unilateral secession by member states.

There is nothing in the constitution to change because there is nothing in it preventing secession. All it would take is a SCOTUS reversing the previous erroneous decision.
 
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Lol we didn't lie to Russia about anything, we didn't even lie to the USSR about NATO expansion. Don't take my word for it, here's Gorbachev himself saying so:


Russia invading Ukraine was never about NATO. NATO is responsible for the longest period in Russia's history without them being invaded. They even drew down there military forces on the Finish border after they joined NATO.


Repeating Russian nonsense won't make it true.

That does not prove what you think it proves. It’s a classic “Google” rebuttal.

Gorbachev is spinning his legacy as an old man. He is faulted for being duped in his own country and the on-camera question is his planned opportunity to respond. But notice how he does it. He dodges altogether whether there was a promise and whether he accepted it. He changed the subject to whether the guarantee was to be part of the written treaty and why (somehow) it couldn’t be. He glides past the issue of what he was promised and whether he believed it.

But the declassified documents tell a different story.

He and his foreign minister did accept the guarantee, but he dodges that point altogether. He doesn’t even acknowledge that discussion.

Listening to him there, I wonder if the idea that the promise could not be put in the treaty was his even Gorbachev‘s own idea (as he seems to explain his acceptance of its reasoning) or if it was suggested to him and yet a another way he was duped. Many (most?) agreements have secret portions. Even if you somehow think that a promise to expand NATO impugned the dignity of the Warsaw Pact (which I guess he is implying) that wouldn’t prohibit it being stated in a secret attachment.

I see no reason it couldn’t be in the public portion. Does anyone else? Maybe what Gorby means in his vague “explanation” is that the US sold him on the idea that our European allies wanted it secret for domestic political reasons! And he bought that! However that be, he fell for it.

But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t promised and believed the lie. It goes some way toward explaining the rise of “the realists” in Russia and the fall of more liberal forces.

Our President was a former head of the CIA, btw.

Gorbachev doesn’t want to be remembered as the Jimmy Carter or worse of his people. Carter was in communication with the Ayatollah when the latter was still in France. Carter desired and signed off on the return of the ayatollah and on the overthrow of the Shah because Carter trusted the word of the Ayatollah that it would be a peaceful change of government and liberties would be guaranteed by the new Islamic regime.
 
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That does prove what you think it proves. It’s a classic “Google” rebuttal.

Gorbachev is spinning his legacy as an old man. He is faulted for being duped and the on camera question is his planned opportunity to respond. But notice how he does it. He changed the subject to whether the guarantee was to be part of the written treaty and why it couldn’t be. Gliding past the issue of what he was promised and whether he believed it. But the declassified documents tell a different story.

He and his foreign minister did accept the guarantee, but he dodges that point altogether. He doesn’t even acknowledge that discussion.

Listening to that, I wonder if the idea that the promise could not be put in the treaty was his even Gorbachev‘s idea (as he seems to explain) or suggested to him and a another way he was duped. Many (most?) have secret portions. Even if you think that a promise to expand no farther impugned the dignity of the Warsaw Pact (which I guess he is implying) that wouldn’t prohibit it being stated in a secret attachment.

Gorbachev doesn’t want to be remembered as the Jimmy Carter or worse of his people. Carter was in communication with the Ayatollah when he was still in France. Carter desired and signed off on the overthrow of the Shah because he trusted the word of the Ayatollah that it would be a peaceful change of government and liberties would be guaranteed by the new Islamic regime.

LOL, I don't know what to tell you dude, the literal head of the USSR who participated in the discussions is corroborating what has been said all along: There was no promise by NATO to not allow new members; end of story.

There is no spin to this that will nullify Gorbachev tell you that you are wrong.
 
LOL, I don't know what to tell you dude, the literal head of the USSR who participated in the discussions is corroborating what has been said all along: There was no promise by NATO to not allow new members; end of story.

There is no spin to this that will nullify Gorbachev tell you that you are wrong.
He didn’t say that. You have a listening problem in addition to your reading problem.
 
The NATO propaganda line that aims at a US coup and puppet in Russia is the revisionism. Eisenhower’s warning about the CIA and MIC is history. So is the surveillance state. So are the U.S. color revolutions. So is US demolition of the gas pipeline. A huge opportunity shat upon.

The lies were and are a problem. The post glasnost strategy was all wrong and MIC. Justifying continued existence, spending, and grift. Have you considered what bringing Russia into the fold would have meant for the world. Or, conversely, for NATO?

You and your bruhs hate Russians. The thread is full of your vitriol.

Zelensky is a puppet. There are Nazi militias in Ukraine. It’s not a contradiction. The Russians aren’t Soviet.
the issue with your "coup" argument is that the ex-Ukrainian president is in Russia, not the US. really puts the lie to your whole argument.

none of the names in Nuland's phone call ended up as president, or really promoted beyond a job they had previously held. so no coup there.

If you want to bring up completely historical facts that have nothing to do with the current situation I would mention the Soviets killing millions of Ukrainians. Before WW2, during WW2, immediately after WW2, and all the way up to their collapse. somehow all that history never gets considered, it could ONLY be a US coup that made Ukrainians dislike Russians.

There are nazi militias in Russia too. several of them fighting for Putin. The Rusich are one of the biggest.

please point out some of my vitriol.
 
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Feel free to quote the relevant portion of the Constitution that outlines how a state leaves the (perpetual) union.
The constitution specifically limits powers to what are stated in the Constitution. Silence on any subject == freedom on that subject.

ETA:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
 
1. It is arbitrary, the 2% was a guideline percentage of defense spending established back in 2006, and reaffirmed in 2014. It also has zero bearing on NATO common funding, and as I've pointed out previously "defense spending" is such a broad term under NATO guidelines, that increased defense spending doesn't necessarily translate to increased military capabilities.

2. The fact that Trump has even stated that there is a scenario where Article 5 would not be honored is enough to cast doubt on the US participating in the common defense of NATO allies.

3. The US is still the primary provider for logistics and intelligence for NATO. If we bowed out in an Article 5 scenario, the response form the other members would be crippled.
If one country pulling out of an organization would cripple it, how strong is that organization??? Seems to me that if they are worried about the US pulling out they need to step up to be prepared in case that happens.
 
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What does that have to do with a state seceding?

The power to change the make-up of the united states lies with the federal government, states can't join territories to the the union, nor can they change state borders. Texas v White confirmed that the union is perpetual, so if you want unilateral secession at the behest of the states, then you amend the constitution to include a process for doing so.
 
The power to change the make-up of the united states lies with the federal government, states can't join territories to the the union, nor can they change state borders. Texas v White confirmed that the union is perpetual, so if you want unilateral secession at the behest of the states, then you amend the constitution to include a process for doing so.

Yes, you have the opinion from a Supreme Court (wrong opinion from a contaminated court) which can be reversed by another Supreme Court. There is nothing written in the constitution that bars a state from leaving the union. What you posted covers states changing boundaries or parts of a state seceding from a state which by the way was violated with the creation of West Virginia. It shouldn't exist but for much of the 1860s the constitution was tossed out of the window.
 
Yes, you have the opinion from a Supreme Court (wrong opinion from a contaminated court) which can be reversed by another Supreme Court. There is nothing written in the constitution that bars a state from leaving the union. What you posted covers states changing boundaries or parts of a state seceding from a state which by the way was violated with the creation of West Virginia. It shouldn't exist but for much of the 1860s the constitution was tossed out of the window.
Lol, "contaminated court", is that what you tell yourself when you wave your confederate battle flag around your back yard?

Congress voted to approve the creation of West Virginia, again, as the power to approve border changes lies with the federal government.


By all means, join the Texas secessionist movement and try to get Texas v white overturned.
 
Britain led the West by the nose for more than three centuries to prevent Russia from having a warm water port. It’s been a disaster for Europe and the world. To what end?

The British empire no longer exists and we’re still at it.
One of the major reasons for the war. Russia needed that, and now they have that.
 
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the issue with your "coup" argument is that the ex-Ukrainian president is in Russia, not the US. really puts the lie to your whole argument.

none of the names in Nuland's phone call ended up as president, or really promoted beyond a job they had previously held. so no coup there.

If you want to bring up completely historical facts that have nothing to do with the current situation I would mention the Soviets killing millions of Ukrainians. Before WW2, during WW2, immediately after WW2, and all the way up to their collapse. somehow all that history never gets considered, it could ONLY be a US coup that made Ukrainians dislike Russians.

There are nazi militias in Russia too. several of them fighting for Putin. The Rusich are one of the biggest.

please point out some of my vitriol.
Nothing you say even suggests -- much less proves -- that the US-led coup did not occur.
 
One of the major reasons for the war. Russia needed that, and now they have that.
If they can keep it. We should endorse it.

I never thought it would come to this, but I think we have we to consider the possibility of the Brits trying to obtain a small base on that coast and deliberately provoking or false-flagging an incident to trigger and demand a full NATO engagement. We should not fall for it and should make that clear now. In fact, we should keep them the hell away from the area. Now if Russia invades England 😂 that's a different matter. But they know that is not going to happen. The hysteria they are putting on is all fakery and sham politics.
 
If they can keep it. We should endorse it.

I never thought it would come to this, but I think we have we to consider the possibility of the Brits trying to obtain a small base on that coast and deliberately provoking or false-flagging an incident to trigger and demand a full NATO engagement. We should not fall for it and should make that clear now. In fact, we should keep them the hell away from the area. Now if Russia invades England 😂 that's a different matter. But they know that is not going to happen. The hysteria they are putting on is all fakery and sham politics.
The Brits have been successfully provoking false-flag incidents for over a hundred years.British propaganda is top shelf.
 
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