War in Ukraine

[Orangeburst]

The English version says assurances in the title. The other language versions say guarantees. We signed all of them. The first article references Ukraines sovereignty and the existing borders. This has been my argument the whole time it’s ambiguous and inconsistent in the interpretations. However they gave up the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world to get everyone to sign it so to me at least that has significant value.

That is so ambiguous, seems Ukraine was foolish to accept it. The only concrete assurance or guarantee was to go to the UNSC, so in reality, it is just moralistic.

 

[Orange.]

let me ask you something..I just read the Budapest Memorandum. I just see that the US was only committed to going to the UNSC..what am I missing that we are backing out of our commitment? Even then it only states use of nukes by Russia.

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/Part/volume-3007-I-52241.pdf

The warmonger grifters and profiteers have been lying about everything, including this non-guarantee. They think it fools people. They want to make a holy rule and obligation for their attempted holy war. Holy war is how they depict themselves, if you think about it.

As a backup, they try to palm off the lying idea that a sovereign nation can never change an agreement (in case it did say what their lies claim, which it doesn’t.) If that were the case (which it’s not) all agreements and treaties made in the last 4,000 years are still in force. That would include, for starters, German, French, British and U.S. military alliances with… Russia.

 

[Orange.]

The English version says assurances in the title. The other language versions say guarantees. We signed all of them. The first article references Ukraines sovereignty and the existing borders. This has been my argument the whole time it’s ambiguous and inconsistent in the interpretations. However they gave up the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world to get everyone to sign it so to me at least that has significant value.

The weapons were removed because Ukraine is an extremely corrupt country and the nukes would almost surely have ended up on the black market. Ukraine didn’t have the means to maintain or use them.

That reminds me, Biden’s anonymous handlers made a deal to free one of the largest black market weapons dealers in world. Talk about gun control! Not.

 

[NorthDallas40]

That is so ambiguous, seems Ukraine was foolish to accept it. The only concrete assurance or guarantee was to go to the UNSC, so in reality, it is just moralistic.

As we’ve discussed before I won’t tell you you’re wrong. It’s a horrible ass document and should have never been executed as far as I’m concerned. It’s too ambiguous and not definitive on consequences and reactions. And as I’ve said before the documents alone, all interpretations, are one piece but for me it’s the surrendering of the nuclear arsenal to put us on the hook. That’s my own opinion on the whole picture. People can basically read what they want from just the document. But as I’ve said before we shouldn’t give our word if we have no intention of honoring it. Especially with the value of what was surrendered and where they are today in a sovereignty crisis. I wish we’d never signed it but we did. And right now we seem to be doing it again and I wish we wouldn’t.

I’ve dropped this link before if you want to read it. But don’t get your hopes up on a definite answer. The BLUF is the document was ambiguous on purpose snd each party can read what they want. Which to me is stupid as hell and a fundamental diplomatic failure

Constructive Ambiguity of the Budapest Memorandum at 28: Making Sense of the Controversial Agreement

The 1994 Budapest Memorandum was purposefully designed to be ambiguous to allow its signatories to achieve significant goals. It is an important tool in the discourse on the current war waged by Russia in violation of the memorandum.

www.lawfaremedia.org

 

[NorthDallas40]

The warmonger grifters and profiteers have been lying about everything, including this non-guarantee. They think it fools people. They want to make a holy rule and obligation for their attempted holy war. Holy war is how they depict themselves, if you think about it.

As a backup, they try to palm off the lying idea that a sovereign nation can never change an agreement (in case it did say what their lies claim, which it doesn’t.) If that were the case (which it’s not) all agreements and treaties made in the last 4,000 are still in force. That would include, for starters, German, French, British and U.S. military alliances with… Russia.

You really need to sit this one out kid your idiotic hot takes bring nothing to a useful discussion on what the agreement actually says.

 

[NorthDallas40]

The weapons were removed because Ukraine is an extremely corrupt country and the nukes would almost surely have ended up on the black market. Ukraine didn’t have the means to maintain or use them.

That reminds me, Biden’s anonymous handlers made a deal to free one of the largest black market weapons dealers in world. Talk about gun control! Not.

As I said your idiotic hot takes bring nothing to the discussion. The weapons were removed because Ukraine agreed to give them up per the terms outlined in the memorandum. Which in hindsight was really naive on their part.

 

[Orange.]

You peasants need to believe and hate. And obey your betters.

Some of you are not buying into this Biden-plutocrat-neocon imitation holy war.

 

[NorthDallas40]

You peasants need to believe and hate. And obey your betters.

Some of you are not buying into this Biden-plutocrat-neocon imitation holy war.

 

[LSU-SIU]

That is so ambiguous, seems Ukraine was foolish to accept it. The only concrete assurance or guarantee was to go to the UNSC, so in reality, it is just moralistic.

Its better than being invaded from every direction, no? Nobody wanted them to have nukes.

(at this point not very material imo)

 

[apevol]

tankies are ****in weird these days

 

[Orange.]

You really need to sit this one out kid your idiotic hot takes bring nothing to a useful discussion on what the agreement actually says.

Wrong. The whole event was designed to keep the weapons off the black market.

The opposite of going all Barry and shipping piles of cash and authorizing plutonium shipments to Iran.

 

[NorthDallas40]

tankies are ****in weird these days

Where you been hanging out?

 

[apevol]

Where you been hanging out?

mean mean women

 

[Orange.]

View attachment 723822

That one hit hard. So accurate. War mongers:

You peasants need to believe and hate. And obey your betters.

Some of you are not buying into this Biden-plutocrat-neocon quasi holy war.

 

[NorthDallas40]

mean mean women

Post moar. The board needs more of your wisdom.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Wrong. The whole event was designed to keep the weapons off the black market.

The opposite of going all Barry and shipping piles of cash and authoring plutonium shipments to Iran.

Oh that is correct. But they weren’t “taken from them”. Removed was actually your word. Nobody forcibly removed them. The weapons were recognized as their property and they had value. And Ukraine knew that as much as anybody else.

 

[Orange.]

Oh that is correct. But they weren’t “taken from them”. Removed was actually your word. Nobody forcibly removed them. The weapons were recognized as their property and they had value. ON THE BLACK MARKET. And Ukraine knew that as much as anybody else.

Fyp

 

[Orange.]

Sing along.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

MAGA admin will spend the first two years scapegoating Biden and Dems for every misstep and negative outcome, regardless. Trump is Teflon. By then, Ukraine will part of Russia. Elon and his subsidiaries will be running the Fed government--charging the taxpayers even more $$$ for government contracted personnel, that will replace civil servants. The only remaining civil servants will be Schedule F sycophants. Any swing state Secretaries of State will be MAGA and rigging elections to favor MAGA. MAGA tech oligarchy will get their $2.3T tax cut funded by evicerating safety net programs Medicaid and Medicare, Federal retirements, Free school lunches, HBCUs, OSHA, FAA, CDC and NIH research, IRS audit (so the 1% can cheat on their taxes even more than they already do). US will be even more isolated and the rolling 8% cuts to DoD top line coupled with wanning recruiting will diminish readiness. All of which will embolden China, to go ahead and take Taiwan, then setting this sights on S. Korea and Japan. But hey, at least we all got our $5K DOGE dividend.

Use MAGA at least one more time in your useless rant and win yourself a cookie. Nothing I said was incorrect either. Trump wouldn’t have his fingers in this mess if Biden and pals knew WTF they were doing. Now you have no other choice but to sit back and watch Trump screw it all up or see some actual progress. The US is on the other side of the got dayum planet ffs. Don’t you ever get tired of seeing our country involved with conflicts in other countries? European nations should have been dealing with big bad Russia mkay. Btw, I really DGAF about your future prognostications with Elon. Tin foil hats are on aisle five next to your pride flag.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Fyp

Thanks for the non value added edit. It’s right on message for you

 

[LSU-SIU]

Rumor mill is Trump upped price yesterday, 100% (from 50%) of mineral resources (not sure what we are truly talking, but on paper it looks like a FU... my guess is there is no or limited value here) plus more infrastructure and oil/gas which would go into a special fund. There are no U.S. guarantees nor any new commitments this is pure security for past commitments already made. No U.S. security commitments as well.

Looking like rumor was true sounds like 100%, I also hear it entails ports, transportation hubs, etc.



100% U.S. financial control: Trump's new Ukraine minerals deal revealed - Euromaidan Press

I tried to tell everyone.

Edit: I have an idea, just declare war on the U.S.

Trump the Peaceful

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRus..._pov_trump_says_ukraine_is_going_to_give_the/

Time to split the spoils now boys, be there or be square... .right now Europe and the Ukraine on the outside looking in.

 

[LSU-SIU]

France and Germany blocking €20 billion package for Ukraine - Spiegel

Amid tensions between the United States and Ukraine, EU diplomats in the office of Vice-President of the European Commission Kaja Kallas have proposed a new large support package. However, France and Germany have expressed skepticism about it, Spiegel reports.

Looks like bigger names are figuring out that they're throwing good money after bad. They should send the money, and on Monday Trump should demand that money from the Ukraine.... I don't see why not.

 

[Orange.]

Looking like rumor was true sounds like 100%, I also hear it entails ports, transportation hubs, etc.

View attachment 723838

100% U.S. financial control: Trump's new Ukraine minerals deal revealed - Euromaidan Press

I tried to tell everyone.

Edit: I have an idea, just declare war on the U.S.

Trump the Peaceful

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRus..._pov_trump_says_ukraine_is_going_to_give_the/

Time to split the spoils now boys, be there or be square... .right now Europe and the Ukraine on the outside looking in.

Germany’s spoils was its pipeline destroyed by their own so-called U.S.-led “allies.” “Oopsey ! Didn’t know you needed that, friends” — CIA

This new move pretty much exposes what Biden’s oligarch handlers were aiming to abscond with.

 

[Orange.]

The perpetual war party told me Europe believes in fighting on. Deeply held principles.

I guess that lie has been exposed too.

 

[Orange.]

France and Germany blocking €20 billion package for Ukraine - Spiegel



Looks like bigger names are figuring out that they're throwing good money after bad. They should send the money, and on Monday Trump should demand that money from the Ukraine.... I don't see why not.

Europe should send their militaries with their big talk and without America paying for everything, and invade Russia. Maybe conscript soldiers. Raid cafes and nightclubs.

“It’s the biggest European war since…” my TV and Internet feed won’t stop telling me every day. How can there be the biggest European war without… Europeans?

So that war propaganda was been exposed, too.