Department of Government Efficiency - DOGE

#301
#301
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Don’t forget that O’Bama flushed a half billion of the people’s money on a failed solar company.

Solyndra - Wikipedia

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This Social Circle project was in my old territory and started years ago..the town doesnt even want it and I thought it had been cancelled.Giving billions and billions for a start up..I dont think it is even offering any new technology, and was on thethreshold of failing before it got started. Outrageous really.

reason.com

Georgia is shoveling cash into a failing electric vehicle company

In 2021, the state of Georgia made an expensive bet on unproven company Rivian that could be headed for financial catastrophe.
reason.com reason.com
 
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#302
#302
BigOrangeMojo said:
If Elon and Vivek doesnt significantly cut the fat out of defense, then DOGE is just a dog and pony show...
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The idea that defense spending is our biggest issue is an outdated proposition. Defense spending is near historical lows when adjusted for GDP.
 
#304
#304
BigOrangeMojo said:
It's the largest discretionary line in the budget with a 2T annual hole so its an absolute issue...
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All spending is discretionary. Our problem isn’t as much the dod budget as it is the “non-discretionary” spending. The DOD budget has been decreasing over time when compared to GDP.

All those discretionary things referred to as non discretionary are the ones that have been increasing over time when compared to GDP.

If we are going to make any meaningful change, that’s what has to be changed

Edit: here’s an example. In 1960 SS spending was around 2% of GDP. It’s now 5.1%. In 1960 DOD spending was around 8% of GDP, it’s now barely over 3% of GDP.
 
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#305
#305
Vol8188 said:
All spending is discretionary. Our problem isn’t as much the dod budget as it is the “non-discretionary” spending. The DOD budget has been decreasing over time when compared to GDP.

All those discretionary things referred to as non discretionary are the ones that have been increasing over time when compared to GDP.

If we are going to make any meaningful change, that’s what has to be changed
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If we want meaningful change, everything must be changed. We cant skip over sacred cows like defense or we are just rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic....

The percentage bloat in defense might be less than other depts but its absolutely there and its in the hundreds of billions of dollars annually....
 
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#306
#306
BigOrangeMojo said:
If we want meaningful change, everything must be changed. We cant skip over sacred cows like defense or we are just rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic....

The percentage bloat in defense might be less than other depts but its absolutely there and its in the hundreds of billions of dollars annually....
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Even if defense is near historical lows? It seems odd you’d focus on the area of the budget that’s already significantly down, rather than the ones that are up.

We obviously have issues with our budget, I think we agree there. I just think it’s wild to focus on the area that’s already been cut. Our DOD spending is currently at Bill Clinton balanced budget levels.

So why wouldn’t we place the majority of our focus on the other areas that are well above that level?
 
#308
#308
Vol8188 said:
Even if defense is near historical lows? It seems odd you’d focus on the area of the budget that’s already significantly down, rather than the ones that are up.

We obviously have issues with our budget, I think we agree there. I just think it’s wild to focus on the area that’s already been cut. Our DOD spending is currently at Bill Clinton balanced budget levels.

So why wouldn’t we place the majority of our focus on the other areas that are well above that level?
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Im focusing on all of it. Looking at just 1 area is not going to do anything. Cutting a few woke programs and throwing red meat to the base aint gonna fix our issues. Personally, I dont think Musk, Trump, and Vivek has the political will to go meaningfully after the sacred cow.

But yes, Im looking everywhere....
 
#309
#309
BigOrangeMojo said:
Im focusing on all of it. Looking at just 1 area is not going to do anything. Cutting a few woke programs and throwing red meat to the base aint gonna fix our issues. Personally, I dont think Musk, Trump, and Vivek has the political will to go meaningfully after the sacred cow.

But yes, Im looking everywhere....
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Yet the one area you mentioned by name was the one at historically low levels spending. The only one you actually singled out is the one that is at Clinton levels.

My point is that the idea that the DOD is the reason for our budget issues (a common view for many), is outdated given our DOD spending is now at Clinton balanced budget levels and therefore our primary focus for cutting spending should be on other areas. Doesn’t mean you can’t find fat in the DOD budget, but it does mean that specific area isn’t where your primary focus should be
 
#310
#310
Vol8188 said:
Yet the one area you mentioned by name was the one at historically low levels spending. The only one you actually singled out is the one that is at Clinton levels.

My point is that the idea that the DOD is the reason for our budget issues (a common view for many), is outdated given our DOD spending is now at Clinton balanced budget levels and therefore our primary focus for cutting spending should be on other areas. Doesn’t mean you can’t find fat in the DOD budget, but it does mean that specific area isn’t where your primary focus should be
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I get your point. The DoD may not have the same % of waste as other depts, like education. I get that. But the absolute numbers are just so large that 15% is 12 digits annually...

If you are 13 digits in the red annually and 1 specific line item has 12 digits of fat, you gotta hit that one hard....

You gotta hit everything else hard too. Plenty need to be fully eliminated.

Just because your salary has gone up 30% it doesnt mean you need a truck that has only gone up 27% when you are up to your eyeballs in debt. Yes, you can cut the Starbucks and the dining out. But you can cut the truck you cant afford either....
 
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#314
#314
Vol8188 said:
Even if defense is near historical lows? It seems odd you’d focus on the area of the budget that’s already significantly down, rather than the ones that are up.

We obviously have issues with our budget, I think we agree there. I just think it’s wild to focus on the area that’s already been cut. Our DOD spending is currently at Bill Clinton balanced budget levels.

So why wouldn’t we place the majority of our focus on the other areas that are well above that level?
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Bill Clinton never balanced the budget. He rearranged line items and dumped the SS $ you and I have been paying into, that was separated from the rest of the budget, into the budget.
 
#315
#315
BernardKingGOAT said:
Wouldn't be surprising. Less surprising would be the easily acceptance from this dumbed downed echo chamber
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I briefly worked with Brian on a project all the way back when he was at Grant Thornton. Smart guy.

Definitely politicized....

Is that the dumbed down response you were expecting?
 
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#316
#316
Orange_Crush said:
Bill Clinton never balanced the budget. He rearranged line items and dumped the SS $ you and I have been paying into, that was separated from the rest of the budget, into the budget.
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My point is simple. Given defense spending is at near historic lows, it’s odd that people will continually point at defense as the problem. The answer to why is obvious (it’s large and not a welfare programs. But part of it is left over sentiment from Cold War and later W. When defense spending was higher, and I don’t think many people realize how low defense spending is historically
 
#317
#317
Vol8188 said:
My point is simple. Given defense spending is at near historic lows, it’s odd that people will continually point at defense as the problem. The answer to why is obvious (it’s large and not a welfare programs. But part of it is left over sentiment from Cold War and later W. When defense spending was higher, and I don’t think many people realize how low defense spending is historically
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You keep arguing percentages and ignoring the cost. To argue "CUT WASTE!!!! NO NOT THAT WASTE!" is disingenuous.
 
#318
#318
Vol8188 said:
My point is simple. Given defense spending is at near historic lows, it’s odd that people will continually point at defense as the problem. The answer to why is obvious (it’s large and not a welfare programs. But part of it is left over sentiment from Cold War and later W. When defense spending was higher, and I don’t think many people realize how low defense spending is historically
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But why not have defense spending on the list? When you're trillions in debt, nearly everything is on the table. It'd be like having a reckless, drug addict uncle living in the basement who's stealing out of the wife's purse. Just because you can get cheaper cellular plans to lower the monthly household budget, and he's stealing a little less nowadays, you still kick the thieving drug addict out of the basement.

Imagine failing, what? 8 audits and being unable to account for billions of dollars of our $$$, and waving a hand over it. "These are not the droids you're after."

And the point about the "balanced" budget is important. When the federal gov't forced the SS Ponzi scheme on us, they promised us that it is our money, separate from the federal budget. It's a mandatory part of our retirement, and the gov't is just safeguarding it for us for our benefit. Then Clinton dumped all that money into the general budget and lied to the American people that he'd done us a solid.
 
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#319
#319
jwells said:
You keep arguing percentages and ignoring the cost. To argue "CUT WASTE!!!! NO NOT THAT WASTE!" is disingenuous.
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I’ve never said not to cut DOD waste. But if something is near historical lows in terms of funding, there’s likely less to be found. I would do more reallocation than cuts to the dod budget at this level. If you wanted to keep it constant for a few years, I’m open to that. But I wouldn’t make significant cuts
 
#320
#320
Orange_Crush said:
But why not have defense spending on the list? When you're trillions in debt, nearly everything is on the table. It'd be like having a reckless, drug addict uncle living in the basement who's stealing out of the wife's purse. Just because you can get cheaper cellular plans to lower the monthly household budget, and he's stealing a little less nowadays, you still kick the thieving drug addict out of the basement.

Imagine failing, what? 8 audits and being unable to account for billions of dollars of our $$$, and waving a hand over it. "These are not the droids you're after."

And the point about the "balanced" budget is important. When the federal gov't forced the SS Ponzi scheme on us, they promised us that it is our money, separate from the federal budget. It's a mandatory part of our retirement, and the gov't is just safeguarding it for us for our benefit. Then Clinton dumped all that money into the general budget and lied to the American people that he'd done us a solid.
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I’ve never said take it off the table completely. I’m open to things like cutting overseas bases that would really in significant budget cuts.

But like I’ve said many times, there’s not as much meat on this bone as there has been in the past. The false notion that the dod budget is our primary spending issue is a left over Cold War relic
 
#322
#322
BigOrangeMojo said:
Cutting 7% from defense gets you to the same point as cutting 50% from CDC, Dept of Education, and Dept of Energy...
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Only one of those is an actual necessity. I’m not 100% opposed to cuts, but many of them have already occurred. We need to make reasonable cuts without significant limitations to our capabilities
 
#323
#323
Vol8188 said:
Only one of those is an actual necessity. I’m not 100% opposed to cuts, but many of them have already occurred. We need to make reasonable cuts without significant limitations to our capabilities
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I would offer we have more than enough money to fulfill the obligated defensive capabilities
 
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#325
#325
Vol8188 said:
Only one of those is an actual necessity. I’m not 100% opposed to cuts, but many of them have already occurred. We need to make reasonable cuts without significant limitations to our capabilities
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This is a wild take.

"Well, we're sick and no one can get grants for education...but at least the nukes are safe!"
 
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