Orangeslice13, a blessing to those around him…..Again

#11,262
#11,262
Orangeslice13 said:
Sin is very simply “missing the mark” as defined by Paul who was teaching from Jeremiah. Sin can be evil be doesn’t have to be. Under the sacrificial system there were sacrifices for sins you did not know you committed. Which begs the question…how are sins forgiven? And what how is atonement different than forgiveness? What did messiah actually do for you at the cross?
There’s a whole lot to unpack when you start down this path.

Personally with the return of the sacrificial system during the reign of messiah and that system for ceremonial purposes, and the fact that the system is called “forever “ ……I believe free will is intact past glorified bodies. And I believe it tracks with scripture.
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I'm not understanding the connection between your post about "sins defined by Torah" and where we are right now.
Is Sin defined by the Torah a different standard than what Christ taught?....as an example committing adultry compared to lusting in your heart.
 
#11,263
#11,263
McDad said:
I'm not understanding the connection between your post about "sins defined by Torah" and where we are right now.
Is Sin defined by the Torah a different standard than what Christ taught?....as an example committing adultry compared to lusting in your heart.
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Ok. Is Torah still the definition of what the most high calls sin?
That question is at the heart of the discussion. Most Christians would answer that question no, and they’d be wrong.
Example. Is eating pork sinful?
 
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#11,264
#11,264
Orangeslice13 said:
Ok. Is Torah still the definition of what the most high calls sin?
That question is at the heart of the discussion. Most Christians would answer that question no, and they’d be wrong
Click to expand...
I'll give it some thought and reconnect with the discussion another time.

Thx
 
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#11,266
#11,266
Orangeslice13 said:
Ok. Is Torah still the definition of what the most high calls sin?
That question is at the heart of the discussion. Most Christians would answer that question no, and they’d be wrong.
Example. Is eating pork sinful?
Click to expand...
In many ways, yes. The Law is still defining sin. Murder is still murder, after all. There are some commandments from the Old Testament which are no longer defined as sin.
I also understand that sin is no longer defined by the act but also the desire. Which is why I referenced adultry earlier. The act was sinful but now the desire (committing adultry in your heart is, too).

I do not think eating pork is a sin.
 
#11,267
#11,267
McDad said:
In many ways, yes. The Law is still defining sin. Murder is still murder, after all. There are some commandments from the Old Testament which are no longer defined as sin.
I also understand that sin is no longer defined by the act but also the desire. Which is why I referenced adultry earlier. The act was sinful but now the desire (committing adultry in your heart is, too).

I do not think eating pork is a sin.
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Can you support that belief with scripture?
I’m taking the position that what you have just said is in opposition to everything G-d has ever said of himself through scripture and cannot be supported by scripture.

Again, to have this conversation you can absolutely believe whatever you want and we can still have it. I don’t mind if you disagree with me. But there’s one absolute truth so we both can’t be right.
 
#11,268
#11,268
Messiah speaking.

17 “Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [g]the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished! 19 Therefore, whoever nullifies one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [h]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [i]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


-until heaven and earth pass away the law of G-d will be the definition of sin.
 
#11,269
#11,269
superdave1984 said:
@Orangeslice13
So how big of a deal was it for Simon to get his name changed to Peter, culturally speaking? I know family names were a huge deal, but how would that have gone over with the rest of the people?
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Culturally speaking, the name change would have been a relatively smooth transition. It went along with a change in purpose so that would have been easy to understand and communicate why he changed his name.
Names to Hebrews have meaning. More so than in most other cultures. An example of this would be when the birth of Yeshua was announced most people know the verse as “you shall call his name Jesus for he will save his people from their sins”. When Hebrew hear that it doesn’t resonate with them because “Jesus” is a made up name that comes from transliteration and has no definition. But if you say “ you shall call his name YaShua for he will save his people from their sins” then Hebrews would understand as YaShua means “YHWH is salvation” it’s further confusing to Hebrews as there are many biblical “YaShuas” or “Yashua” but their names are translated “Joshua”. Simon to Peter imo would have actually helped his transition to a new role in life.
 
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#11,270
#11,270
Orangeslice13 said:
Can you support that belief with scripture?
I’m taking the position that what you have just said is in opposition to everything G-d has ever said of himself through scripture and cannot be supported by scripture.

Again, to have this conversation you can absolutely believe whatever you want and we can still have it. I don’t mind if you disagree with me. But there’s one absolute truth so we both can’t be right.
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Which belief? I shared a few.
 
#11,272
#11,272
Orangeslice13 said:
I would counter that both Yeshua (Jesus) were teachers of the law. I would argue that a great many things had been added to the law that were not from the most high. So I’d say yeshua was reforming the understanding of the law and rejecting the tradition of man added to the law. Paul was the Pharisee of Pharisees. He was called to bring understanding to the rest of the world. Paul is the most misrepresented man in history. Even Peter said Paul was complex and the uneducated (in Torah) twist his words to their destruction.

I often offer the challenge….show me any teaching of Paul or Yeshua and I’ll show you its foundation in Torah
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Paul's teachings about homosexuality probably conforms with Torah, but I think it goes against the christian reform jesus wanted. To me it seems like an add on after jesus to sell the gentiles on the new religion, that and eliminating the circumcision requirement. I think jesus commandment eliminates any prohibition against homosexuality in jewish law.
 
#11,273
#11,273
McDad said:
Which belief? I shared a few.
Click to expand...
Eating pork is a sin. By definition Torah says it’s not food.
Psalms is clear and repetitive. The law is established and in heaven. The law is eternal. The law is the essence of G-d. G-d is not a man that he would lie or change. So Torah law ….according to both messiah and Paul…..is still the definition of sin. None of the added crap and tradition of man that’s found in Talmud is sin, but what G-d defines as sin and says is forever is still sin.

Now again “sin” has become a loaded word. Eating pork is a minor violation as the G-d that created your body knows it’s bad for you. The law is given as a “blessing for those who believe and a curse for those who don’t “. If you follow the law you will be healthier and happier. Eating pork doesn’t mean you’re going to hell. (There is no hell btw).

Now let’s talk about how it gets more complicated. I’m staying with my adopted brother this week. His wife is catholic and loves us very much. I don’t discuss my BS with her because it would not be appropriate. For breakfast she made eggs toast and Bacon. In my study refusing the hospitality of someone who loves me would be the greatest sin so we all ate it and smiled. I feel no guilt for that sin as there is no condemnation in it. Just like all things, sometimes “sin” is all the options so you do your best and walk humble before your creator. Ask for forgiveness in the things you know you did and for the things you don’t (palms 119) and trust in the atonement that messiah provided for you.
This is what I believe you do.
We just simply disagree and we both can’t be right. Which is ok.

Shalom my friend
(Which is to say, good conversation and not that we’re done having it)
 
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#11,274
#11,274
jvol1 said:
Paul's teachings about homosexuality probably conforms with Torah, but I think it goes against the christian reform jesus wanted. To me it seems like an add on after jesus to sell the gentiles on the new religion, that and eliminating the circumcision requirement. I think jesus commandment eliminates any prohibition against homosexuality in jewish law.
Click to expand...
circumcision was not eliminated. The belief that it was required for in the custom of Moses was added tradition and Paul was clarifying that it was not. Salvation is by grace. Always has been. Circumcision is evidence of faith. (James. Faith without works is death) Paul circumcised Timmothy post Galatians.

Good stuff

I’d need clarification on the homosexuality comment you made to reply.
 
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#11,275
#11,275
I enjoy these conversations. If I sound like I’m talking down to anyone in any way I apologize. You’re responsible for your beliefs before your creator. I’m ok if we disagree. I’m simply sharing my thoughts and not trying to convince/convert anyone. That’s G-ds job.
 
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