2024 Presidential Race

#14,676
#14,676
85SugarVol said:
He’s been going on and on about whataboutism in these threads for years - while routinely engaging in it.

He also posts frequently about hypocrisy fwiw.
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It's pretty much a Kafka trap in a 2-party system to dismiss counter accusations to racism allegations as 'whataboutism'.

One side doesn't get to bring issues or allegations to the table while holding themselves exempt from scrutiny.

Trump is an idiot populist, but doesn't pander anymore than Biden does. Neither of them are pulling any swing votes when they do so.

Can anyone show me how Trump benefits from racist organizations through WinRed* to the extent that Biden benefited from BLM through ActBlue*.
 
#14,677
#14,677
MemphisVol77 said:
It's pretty much a Kafka trap in a 2-party system to dismiss counter accusations to racism allegations as 'whataboutism'.

One side doesn't get to bring issues or allegations to the table while holding themselves exempt from scrutiny.

Trump is an idiot populist, but doesn't pander anymore than Biden does. Neither of them are pulling any swing votes when they do so.

Can anyone show me how Trump benefits from racist organizations through WinRed* to the extent that Biden benefited from BLM through ActBlue*.
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That's an impossible ask. How the hell do you expect anyone to measure that?
 
#14,679
#14,679
MemphisVol77 said:
It's pretty much a Kafka trap in a 2-party system to dismiss counter accusations to racism allegations as 'whataboutism'.
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No, it's not. "What-about-ism" does not serve as a defense. It's a logical fallacy.

MemphisVol77 said:
One side doesn't get to bring issues or allegations to the table while holding themselves exempt from scrutiny.
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Democrats are not exempt from scrutiny. You just can't defend allegations against Republicans by making allegations against Democrats. To have a conversation about Democrats separate and apart from the Republican allegations is fine. I have acknowledged that Black Lives Matter and Antifa are indeed, racist organizations. They promote bigotry and intolerance. They are violent extremists who the Democratic Party should have denounced and disassociated from a long time ago. I don't know how to be any more explicit than that. However, the similar failures of Democrats does not serve as a defense of Republicans.

MemphisVol77 said:
Trump is an idiot populist, but doesn't pander anymore than Biden does. Neither of them are pulling any swing votes when they do so.
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Give me a break. The way Trump panders to evangelicals is embarrassing ... while at the same time being very reluctant to denounce white supremacist groups. That's not being very consistent, now is it?
 
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#14,680
#14,680
volfanhill said:
That's an impossible ask. How the hell do you expect anyone to measure that?
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Maybe I should reverse it. Can anyone quantify how Biden benefits more from organizations through ActBlue than Trump does........

I was asking more rhetorically than expecting an answer. I skimmed a few of the links @BowlBrother85 listed.
Neo-Nazi and white supremacist groups have multiplied under Trump, report finds neo-Nazi groups growing from 99 to 121 and anti-Muslim organisations increasing from 101 chapters to 114.
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It also notes that black nationalist hate groups expanded from 193 chapters to 223.
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So Trump caused racist white organizations to increase by 35 and because of that black hate groups increased by 30?

Trump is an idiot, but his critics give him too much credit.
 
#14,681
#14,681
MemphisVol77 said:
Maybe I should reverse it. Can anyone quantify how Biden benefits more from organizations through ActBlue than Trump does........

I was asking more rhetorically than expecting an answer. I skimmed a few of the links @BowlBrother85 listed.


So Trump caused racist white organizations to increase by 35 and because of that black hate groups increased by 30?

Trump is an idiot, but his critics give him too much credit.
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Trumps problem is he can't simply say "No thank you. Vote for someone else." It's lazy and dumb
 
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#14,682
#14,682
BowlBrother85 said:
No, it's not. "What-about-ism" does not serve as a defense. It's a logical fallacy.


Democrats are not exempt from scrutiny. You just can't defend allegations against Republicans by making allegations against Democrats. To have a conversation about Democrats separate and apart from the Republican allegations is fine. I have acknowledged that Black Lives Matter and Antifa are indeed, racist organizations. They promote bigotry and intolerance. They are violent extremists who the Democratic Party should have denounced and disassociated from a long time ago. I don't know how to be any more explicit than that. However, the similar failures of Democrats does not serve as a defense of Republicans.


Give me a break. The way Trump panders to evangelicals is embarrassing ... while at the same time being very reluctant to denounce white supremacist groups. That's not being very consistent, now is it?
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Whataboutism is important because standards are important.

Question: what is an evangelical? What does this mean in the context you’ve used?
 
#14,683
#14,683
DC_Vol said:
Whataboutism is important because standards are important.
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What-about-ism does not serve as a defense. It serves only to change the subject away from what an accused person can't defend, and towards what an accused person would rather talk about.

Now, having said that .... having equal standards consistently applied is important. In some cases, the subject that the accused is deflecting towards is a reasonable thing to discuss .... but it should be done separately from the allegations they are confronting.

DC_Vol said:
Question: what is an evangelical? What does this mean in the context you’ve used?
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A member of a Christian Church, who ascribes to a literal interpretation of the Bible, with a focus on repentance and salvation brought to sinners by Jesus Christ. I'm not aware of any other context for "evangelical."
 
#14,684
#14,684
BowlBrother85 said:
No, it's not. "What-about-ism" does not serve as a defense. It's a logical fallacy.
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I vote for the least corrupt, it is not a logical fallacy.
Democrats are not exempt from scrutiny. You just can't defend allegations against Republicans by making allegations against Democrats. To have a conversation about Democrats separate and apart from the Republican allegations is fine.
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They don't have to be seperate. I think more people vote partisan than candidate. You can't seperate a candidate from the party.
I have acknowledged that Black Lives Matter and Antifa are indeed, racist organizations. They promote bigotry and intolerance. They are violent extremists who the Democratic Party should have denounced and disassociated from a long time ago. I don't know how to be any more explicit than that. However, the similar failures of Democrats does not serve as a defense of Republicans.
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Maybe not a defense of Reublicans, but I threw my vote away the last 2 elections and voted a Republican not named Trump. I find Democrats more repugnant, but can't bring myself to vote for Trump.
BowlBrother85 said:
Give me a break. The way Trump panders to evangelicals is embarrassing ... while at the same time being very reluctant to denounce white supremacist groups. That's not being very consistent, now is it?
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I think you've got binders on.
 
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#14,687
#14,687
volfanhill said:
Would you like me to show you YouTube videos of his debate answers?
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You can show me whatever you want. He is not racist. Not even a little bit racist. Trump has received more of the black vote than any Republican presidential candidate in recent history. I know who is racist. “If you don’t vote for me you ain’t black” is racist.
 
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#14,688
#14,688
DC_Vol said:
So a Christian?
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Evangelical Christians tend to be more conservative in religious and social beliefs than other branches of Christianity. Basically, they take the Bible more seriously as a part of their daily lives. It's a more literal interpretation of the Bible.
 
#14,689
#14,689
LibertyVol said:
You can show me whatever you want. He is not racist. Not even a little bit racist. Trump has received more of the black vote than any Republican presidential candidate in recent history. I know who is racist. “If you don’t vote for me you ain’t black” is racist.
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That isn't true.
 
#14,691
#14,691
BowlBrother85 said:
It is a logical fallacy to believe that an allegation can be defended with a counter-allegation against someone/something else.

Yes, it is.
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Only if you think one is innocent.

If I had to pick between the 2, and couldn't throw my vote away with someone else on the TN ballot, I'd pick Trump over Biden.

For the record, you say I'm "Defending" Trump, not me. I said
MemphisVol77 said:
It's pretty much a Kafka trap in a 2-party system to dismiss counter accusations to racism allegations as 'whataboutism'.

One side doesn't get to bring issues or allegations to the table while holding themselves exempt from scrutiny.
Click to expand...
 
#14,692
#14,692
MemphisVol77 said:
Only if you think one is innocent.
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No .... it has nothing to do with guilt or innocence. Even if the counter-allegation is accurate, and sometimes it will be, it still doesn't serve as a defense of the initial allegation. Two people can be guilty at the same time. It doesn't absolve Person A from guilt .... just because Person B is also guilty of something just as bad or worse..
 
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#14,698
#14,698
BowlBrother85 said:
Right .... and following the first black President was perfect timing for Trump. White resentment was flourishing in the summer of 2015. There had been this "uppity n***er" forced upon racists, and they were ready for a radical revolt.
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For bigots and racists (same thing), turnabout is NEVER fair play. Me? I'm in favor of a ship load of Xenomorphs or Starship Trooper Arachnids landing and putting an end to all stupidity of humans once and for all.
 
#14,699
#14,699
VOLS INC. said:





@BowlBrother85 thoughts? Who is running the major cities? Is it Trump or white supremacy to blame that black children in Baltimore can’t read??


Single mother rates among black households. Did Trump attribute more to that problem? Or LBJ?
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As I have said many times on here, the war on poverty by democrats has done more to damage poor urban neighborhoods and poor rural neighborhoods than anything else. You can't just give people free sh!t and expect good results. Only a moron does that.
 
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