War in Ukraine

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#76,601
volfanhill said:
I never said I backed the war. Peruse the thread. You swallowing all Putn wants is laughable.
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By your logic, we should’ve just let Russia park missiles in Cuba since they’re a sovereign country we have no right to mess with.

But that’s all america does. To call putin evil for invading ukraine is to call us Satan incarnate.
 
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#76,604
#76,604
Christian Lowe said:
The Maidan Revolution being boiled down to “peaceful protestors were killed then the president ran away” is insane lmfao. The protestors weren’t peaceful. It was a coup.
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Yanukovych didn't run from Ukraine because of protesters.

He ran away after having his security forces open fire on the protesters, and killing 100 of them, didn't cause them to cease protesting.

www.rferl.org

Investigators Say Yanukovych Gave 'Criminal Order' To Kill Protesters

Ukrainian security officials say the killings of protesters in Kyiv in February occurred "under the direct leadership" of ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, and accused Russian security services of involvement in the repression.
www.rferl.org www.rferl.org
 
#76,605
#76,605
Christian Lowe said:
This is proving my point. Western meddling forced Putin’s hand is the basis of everything I’m saying. Thank you.
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Western meddling?

It's literally Sergey Glaszyev, Putin's aid, threatening Ukraine withe a "pro-Russian insurgency", for wanting to sign a trade agreement with the EU.

6 months before said "pro-Russian insurgency" manifested itself in the form of unflagged Russian soldiers invading Ukraine.
 
#76,606
#76,606
BeardedVol said:
Western meddling?

It's literally Sergey Glaszyev, Putin's aid, threatening Ukraine withe a "pro-Russian insurgency", for wanting to sign a trade agreement with the EU.

6 months before said "pro-Russian insurgency" manifested itself in the form of unflagged Russian soldiers invading Ukraine.
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What’s the difference in them doing that and us forcing every western ally we have to go along with all the sanctions we place around the world?

Would we allow Canada to join BRICS? I somehow doubt it.
 
#76,607
#76,607
Christian Lowe said:
What’s the difference in them doing that and us forcing every western ally we have to go along with all the sanctions we place around the world?

Would we allow Canada to join BRICS? I somehow doubt it.
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Lol, who exactly, did we force to do what with sanctions?

Why would we care if Canada wanted to tie themselves to BRICS?

Does joining BRICS mean a country can't trade with the US? Better let Brazil know.
1000006664.png
 
#76,608
#76,608
Christian Lowe said:
They wouldn’t do anything. There is zero evidence or even probable cause to assume putin would advance beyond ukraine. It’s been known for decades that ukraine was Russia’s red line. We crossed it over and over. We antagonized and caused this entire war. Putin isn’t some mad man who did this on a whim, and he isn’t out for world domination.

He just doesn’t want NATO on his doorstep. It’s understandable.
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You know Putin added 832 miles of NATO border right next to Russia's second most important city (and his home city) with his invasion of Ukraine, right? You know he has moved his troops from this new sensitive NATO border to Ukraine because he doesn't view it as a actionable threat because NATO is a defensive alliance, right?

You know a second, technically advanced country which proudly held it's neutrality also joined NATO, turning the Baltic Sea into Lake NATO due to his invasion of Ukraine, right?

You know he views the breakup of the USSR as the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, right? Furthermore, he doesn't view former USSR countries as independent states or the citizens as sovereign, right?

You are correct that he isn't a mad man. He meticulously planned weakening operations in Eastern Europe, economic blackmail with Western Europe, made savvy domestic economic reforms to brace for a possible sanctioned economy, and conducted military/paramilitary operations where he thought he could get away with it.

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine, one could easily make the argument he was the most savvy geopolitical leader in the world. He did more with less than any other leader.

His only mistake was surrounding himself in a very small information bubble which persuaded him that Ukraine would be a cakewalk through a mixture of overestimating Russia's military capabilities, underestimating Ukrainian military resistance, overestimating FSB/SVB's Ukrainian corruption campaign, and the Ukrainian people's will to not be governed by Russia. The plan was for a quick strike and fall of Ukraine which would have rendered European and American help a moot possibility. When that didn't happen, European and American support, along with Ukrainian will power and ingenuity, resulted in a string of embarrassing losses.

Now, Putin is stuck without an off ramp to save face. His only hope is to continue to solidify power domestically and hope to outlast American and European support. While he might succeed on the former, he's increasingly looking like he's losing on the latter.

Tl;Dr, you have a tenuous grasp of the geopolitical reality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
 
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#76,609
#76,609
BeardedVol said:
Lol, who exactly, did we force to do what with sanctions?

Why would we care if Canada wanted to tie themselves to BRICS?

Does joining BRICS mean a country can't trade with the US? Better let Brazil know.
View attachment 626456
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BRICS directly aims to displace the US dollar as the world’s trade currency, so yeah, no reason to care. And Brazil isn’t on our border. We invade or overthrow any country that doesn’t do what we want. We’re worse than Putin in every metric. There’s nothing he’s doing that we haven’t done at a larger scale.

PKT_VOL said:
You know Putin added 832 miles of NATO border right next to Russia's second most important city (and his home city) with his invasion of Ukraine, right? You know he has moved his troops from this new sensitive NATO border to Ukraine because he doesn't view it as a actionable threat because NATO is a defensive alliance, right?

You know a second, technically advanced country which proudly held it's neutrality also joined NATO, turning the Baltic Sea into Lake NATO due to his invasion of Ukraine, right?

You know he views the breakup of the USSR as the biggest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, right? Furthermore, he doesn't view former USSR countries as independent states or the citizens as sovereign, right?

You are correct that he isn't a mad man. He meticulously planned weakening operations in Eastern Europe, economic blackmail with Western Europe, made savvy domestic economic reforms to brace for a possible sanctioned economy, and conducted military/paramilitary operations where he thought he could get away with it.

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine, one could easily make the argument he was the most savvy geopolitical leader in the world. He did more with less than any other leader.

His only mistake was surrounding himself in a very small information bubble which persuaded him that Ukraine would be a cakewalk through a mixture of overestimating Russia's military capabilities, underestimating Ukrainian military resistance, overestimating FSB/SVB's Ukrainian corruption campaign, and the Ukrainian people's will to not be governed by Russia. The plan was for a quick strike and fall of Ukraine which would have rendered European and American help a moot possibility. When that didn't happen, European and American support, along with Ukrainian will power and ingenuity, resulted in a string of embarrassing losses.

Now, Putin is stuck without an off ramp to save face. His only hope is to continue to solidify power domestically and hope to outlast American and European support. While he might succeed on the former, he's increasingly looking like he's losing on the latter.

Tl;Dr, you have a tenuous grasp of the geopolitical reality of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
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Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a

wikileaks.org

Don’t take it from me, take it from the head of the CIA.
 
#76,610
#76,610
Christian Lowe said:
BRICS directly aims to displace the US dollar as the world’s trade currency, so yeah, no reason to care. And Brazil isn’t on our border. We invade or overthrow any country that doesn’t do what we want. We’re worse than Putin in every metric. There’s nothing he’s doing that we haven’t done at a larger scale.


Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a

wikileaks.org

Don’t take it from me, take it from the head of the CIA.
Click to expand...

That didn't dispute a thing I said.

Ask yourself why Putin views Ukrainian and Georgian potential membership to NATO very differently than actual Finland and Sweden NATO membership despite the latter being far, far worse strategically for Russian defense.
 
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#76,611
#76,611
PKT_VOL said:
That didn't dispute a thing I said.

Ask yourself why Putin views Ukrainian and Georgian potential membership to NATO very differently than actual Finland and Sweden NATO membership despite the latter being far, far worse strategically for Russian defense.
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Because it isn’t worse strategically? Ukraine has the only year round warm water port that Russia has access to. They’re former satellites, the Nordic countries aren’t. Half the people there are Russian. They all speak roughly the same language. It’s the bread basket of europe.

Why Russia cares more about Ukraine than the Nordics is fairly obvious. It disputes what you said because they didn’t say Sweden, or Norway, or Poland was a red line. They said Ukraine was.
 
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#76,612
#76,612
Christian Lowe said:
BRICS directly aims to displace the US dollar as the world’s trade currency, so yeah, no reason to care. And Brazil isn’t on our border. We invade or overthrow any country that doesn’t do what we want. We’re worse than Putin in every metric. There’s nothing he’s doing that we haven’t done at a larger scale.


Cable: 08MOSCOW265_a

wikileaks.org

Don’t take it from me, take it from the head of the CIA.
Click to expand...
Lol, BRICS countries can't even manage to unify on a reserve currency because India and China hate each other 5 out of 7 days a week and refuse to trade in each other's currencies, and the other members would tank their own economies because of trade deficits with China

finance.yahoo.com

New BRICS World Currency And Trade Alliance Might Be Dead Before Getting Started Amid Disagreement And US Dollar Still Used In 90% Of All Trade

An audacious call from Brazil President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva for the BRICS nations to establish a shared currency has been met with skepticism. Addressing a packed audience during the 2023 BRICS Summit in Johannesburg, South Africa, Silva argued that a common currency would insulate these...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com

As for thr "we're the same as Putin" nonsense, you literally know absolutely nothing about Putin if that's what you really believe.

I'd chalk it up to the general ignorance you've displayed in this thread, but you seem to willfully consume Russian propaganda like it's half price night at Golden Corral.
 
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#76,613
#76,613
Christian Lowe said:
Because it isn’t worse strategically? Ukraine has the only year round warm water port that Russia has access to. They’re former satellites, the Nordic countries aren’t. Half the people there are Russian. They all speak roughly the same language. It’s the bread basket of europe.

Why Russia cares more about Ukraine than the Nordics is fairly obvious. It disputes what you said because they didn’t say Sweden, or Norway, or Poland was a red line. They said Ukraine was.
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You realize you are agreeing with my point, right? Their interest in Ukraine has nothing to do with Russian defense with respect to NATO. It is political because they want to control their former USSR territory and people's. They can't do that if they belong to NATO. In other words, this is a political and economic aspiration for Russia, not a strategic defensive one.

In a war with Russia, Finland and Sweden are much, much more valuable to NATO then Ukraine or Georgia. It's not even close.

As for Ukraine's warm water port, you know that its connection to the outside world is controlled by NATO, right?
 
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#76,614
#76,614
BeardedVol said:
Lol, BRICS countries can't even manage to unify on a reserve currency because India and China hate each other 5 out of 7 days a week and refuse to trade in each other's currencies, and the other members would tank their own economies because of trade deficits with China

finance.yahoo.com

New BRICS World Currency And Trade Alliance Might Be Dead Before Getting Started Amid Disagreement And US Dollar Still Used In 90% Of All Trade

An audacious call from Brazil President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva for the BRICS nations to establish a shared currency has been met with skepticism. Addressing a packed audience during the 2023 BRICS Summit in Johannesburg, South Africa, Silva argued that a common currency would insulate these...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com

As for thr "we're the same as Putin" nonsense, you literally know absolutely nothing about Putin if that's what you really believe.

I'd chalk it up to the general ignorance you've displayed in this thread, but you seem to willfully consume Russian propaganda like it's half price night at Golden Corral.
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What their reserve currency is wasn’t the point. Everyone is offloading US Dollars as fast as they can. That’s my concern, I couldn’t care less if they do it with the Yuan or not.


We’re not the same as putin. We’re worse. Just saying it isn’t true isn’t making any substantial argument against that. It’s an objective fact that we’ve invaded far more countries for far less, and have overthrown governments that dare oppose us anywhere we can.
 
#76,615
#76,615
Christian Lowe said:
The 2014 invasion was caused by a coup we backed that ousted their democratically elected leader.

It is about NATO. We’ve been meddling in their country when they’ve explicitly said it’s a red line since the late 1990’s.
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He was elected and when he pivoted away from his campaign promises he was cast out according to Ukraine’s constitution. Not even his own party voted to keep him. And he left in the middle of the night and has resided in Russia ever since.
 
#76,616
#76,616
PKT_VOL said:
You realize you are agreeing with my point, right? Their interest in Ukraine has nothing to do with Russian defense with respect to NATO. It is political because they want to control their former USSR territory and people's. They can't do that if they belong to NATO. In other words, this is a political and economic aspiration for Russia, not a strategic defensive one.

In a war with Russia, Finland and Sweden are much, much more valuable to NATO then Ukraine or Georgia. It's not even close.

As for Ukraine's warm water port, you know that its connection to the outside world is controlled by NATO, right?
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sure, it sounds like we agree on why Russia is doing this. It’s a catastrophe for them if Ukraine aligns with the west for several reasons, all the ones you’ve listen chief among them.

Where we disagree is that I think the United States totally provoked this conflict, prolonged it, and have the blood of an entire generation of Ukrainians on their hands because of it.

Boris Johnson was sent to keep Zelensky from negotiating. This war could’ve been over a year and a half ago.

What do we get out of this? Russia is going to win. Hundreds of billions of dollars spent for nothing more than weapons manufacturers and politicians pockets getting fatter.

You say there’s no strategic reason for Russia to do this, but there’s absolutely no strategic reason for us to be involved at all. Ukraine means nothing to our national defense. They do nothing for us.

Even if putin isn’t justified in invading ukraine, and should’ve just let a military alliance that should’ve dissolved in 1991 March to his doorstep.. we should’ve never been involved in this.
 
#76,617
#76,617
Christian Lowe said:
What their reserve currency is wasn’t the point. Everyone is offloading US Dollars as fast as they can. That’s my concern, I couldn’t care less if they do it with the Yuan or not.


We’re not the same as putin. We’re worse. Just saying it isn’t true isn’t making any substantial argument against that. It’s an objective fact that we’ve invaded far more countries for far less, and have overthrown governments that dare oppose us anywhere we can.
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Lol, countries are still using the USD on 90% of all of their financial transactions worldwide, including BRICS members, who used the USD to an even greater extent.

1000006665.png

 
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#76,620
#76,620
BeardedVol said:
Lol, countries are still using the USD on 90% of all of their financial transactions worldwide, including BRICS members, who used the USD to an even greater extent.

View attachment 626458

Click to expand...

Will the dollar keep its global dominance? The US needs to get its act together | Economics | The Guardian

The American position depends not only on relations with Russia, China and the Brics countries, but on fixing its own economic and political problems
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

It doesn’t happen overnight. That’s not how that works.
 
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#76,623
#76,623
Christian Lowe said:

Will the dollar keep its global dominance? The US needs to get its act together | Economics | The Guardian

The American position depends not only on relations with Russia, China and the Brics countries, but on fixing its own economic and political problems
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com

It doesn’t happen overnight. That’s not how that works.
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It won't happen at all until there is a currency and an economy that is perceived to be safer and more stable than ours.

That's not happening with China any time soon, nor is it going to happen for the EU.
1000006666.png

www.statista.com

Infographic: U.S. Dollar Defends Role as Global Currency

This chart shows the share of the United States/the U.S. dollar in the global economy and global financial transactions.
www.statista.com www.statista.com
 
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#76,625
#76,625
Christian Lowe said:
Couldn’t have been the months of violent protests backed by the U.S. or kickbacks promised for voting him out. We’d never do that.
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I’ll take that as a “yeah you’re right my op-ed completely ignored that very important point which is critical in factually representing Yanukovych’s constitutionally valid removal from office”.
 
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