Gun control debate (merged)

#27,451
#27,451
luthervol said:
That was your position.

I have always given you credit for being one (maybe the only one) who was willing to take your position to its logical, all be it insane and indefensible, conclusion. (like 'why should anyone care if a 5 year old has a machine gun')
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Why should anyone?
 
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#27,454
#27,454
C-south said:
Can a 5 year old boy decide they want to be a girl?
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Sure, same as they are free to decide they want to buy a machine gun or drive an 18-wheeler.
There's just nothing they can do about it. (Maybe play with dolls, a nerf gun, or hot wheels.)
 
#27,455
#27,455
luthervol said:
Because they are not old enough.
It's sort of like saying, why would anyone care if a 5 year old is driving an 18-wheeler.
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Who says they're not old enough? Shouldn't that be the parents decision? Kid could be a savant, genius, exceptionally mature but you want to limit them simply because of a number.
 
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#27,456
#27,456
hog88 said:
Who says they're not old enough? Shouldn't that be the parents decision? Kid could be a savant, genius, exceptionally mature but you want to limit them simply because of a number.
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I do. Because the alternative is crazy.

So you think a 5 year old should be allowed to join the army with the parents' consent? Or drive an 18-wheeler with their parents' consent? Take the machine gun to kindergarten with their parents' consent?

You seem to be operating under the assumption that all parents have a clue......spoiler alert.......many don't.
 
#27,457
#27,457
luthervol said:
I do. Because the alternative is crazy.

So you think a 5 year old should be allowed to join the army with the parents' consent? Or drive an 18-wheeler with their parents' consent? Take the machine gun to kindergarten with their parents' consent?
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If they can pass all of the physical/mental requirements. If they can pass the licensing test. Who said anything about taking a machine gun to school? We're talking ownership, being able to purchase one and here you go again taking the conversation down a rabbit hole.
 
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#27,458
#27,458
hog88 said:
If they can pass all of the physical/mental requirements. If they can pass the licensing test. Who said anything about taking a machine gun to school? We're talking ownership, being able to purchase one and here you go again taking the conversation down a rabbit hole.
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So where should a 5 year old be able to take their machine gun?

You call the logical extension of your argument going down a rabbit hole - understanable.
 
#27,459
#27,459
luthervol said:
So where should a 5 year old be able to take their machine gun?

You call the logical extension of your argument going down a rabbit hole - understanable.
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Wherever it's not prohibited and their parents allow them to. What a silly question.

It wasn't a logical extension. Take a moment to think and maybe you'll figure out why.
 
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#27,461
#27,461
turbovol said:
So, as I understand it, the gun crazies think we have not a gun problem but a "people problem." Not quite. We have a people problem AND
a gun problem--and that's why we have so much gun violence in America. The contend that we need to solve the "people problem."

Never has there been such an absurdly naive remark.


From the Gun Control Network:


US UK Comparative data

The more guns there are in society the more gun violence there is. International studies of high-income countries typically find that firearm availability is positively correlated with firearm homicide and usually overall homicide (Grinshteyn & Hemenway, 2016 American Journal of Medicine, in press). Comparisons between the United States and the UK make this abundantly clear.


The rate of gun ownership is 3.3 per 100 people in the population in Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland) compared with the US rate of 101, thirty times higher.


The annual rate of gun homicide per 100,000 of the population is currently 0.03 in Great Britain. This compares with 3.6 in the USA, a rate that is 120-fold greater. The total firearms death rate (including suicides and accidents as well) is 51 times higher in the US than in the UK.


Some other figures are worth noting:


  • In the US some two thirds of homicides involve a gun while in Great Britain the figure is approximately 5%.
  • There were 5,800 handgun homicides in the US in 2013. In the same year in Great Britain - where handguns are prohibited - fewer than 20 murders involved a handgun.

So gun control clearly does work! The UK has a low rate of gun crime but more can be done - people are still being killed and injured unnecessarily.



Guns are a serious problem in America. Everybody knows it but the crazies who value their neighborhood sheriff wannabe toys more than public safety. Fact.
Click to expand...
😂🤡
 
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#27,463
#27,463
hog88 said:
Wherever it's not prohibited and their parents allow them to. What a silly question.

It wasn't a logical extension. Take a moment to think and maybe you'll figure out why.
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So should people be able to legally carry in a public park? I assume you will say yes.
So then you think a 5 year old should legally be able to carry a machine gun in a public park.

Like I said, I appreciate your willingness to take your positions in their insane conclusions.
 
#27,464
#27,464
hog88 said:
I'm of the opinion that if you old enough drive/own a car there is no reason you shouldn't be able to buy a gun and the ban on buying handguns out of state (you can buy long guns OOS) is ridiculous. What's the logic behind that?
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I have always said we should treat them all the same. if its 18 to vote, its 18 to buy/own a gun. if you have to have a background check to buy a gun, you have to have a background check to vote. If a poll tax is illegal to vote, a tax stamp to buy a gun/part is illegal. If you can't use freedom of speech to potentially hurt others (yelling fire) you can't use the 2A to potentially hurt others (firing off randomly in an urban setting). Freedom to practice the religion of your choice, freedom to practice shooting a gun.

I think any discussion on rights that doesn't start with a consistent base can't be considered rational or reasonable.
 
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#27,465
#27,465
luthervol said:
1st, Hog has advocated for all those things (as each of those things were discussed - and he probably isn't the only one). A number of people on here have claimed there can be NO INFRINGEMENT - which by their definition is "no regulations or restrictions."

2nd, you didn't give a single example of where I have attributed a belief to a specific person that the person does not hold.
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yeah, I revoked those items after I saw hog's post.

and yes you have. you have constantly ridiculed people in this thread/forum or wanting a gun to travel through Atlanta because they are scared of something happening on the connector, or some other part of town. I know because I have weighed in on your side in those conversations that Atlanta isn't as dangerous as they make it out to be.
 
#27,466
#27,466
luthervol said:
So should people be able to legally carry in a public park? I assume you will say yes.
So then you think a 5 year old should legally be able to carry a machine gun in a public park.

Like I said, I appreciate your willingness to take your positions in their insane conclusions.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes.
 
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#27,468
#27,468
turbovol said:
So, as I understand it, the gun crazies think we have not a gun problem but a "people problem." Not quite. We have a people problem AND
a gun problem--and that's why we have so much gun violence in America. The contend that we need to solve the "people problem."

Never has there been such an absurdly naive remark.


From the Gun Control Network:


US UK Comparative data

The more guns there are in society the more gun violence there is. International studies of high-income countries typically find that firearm availability is positively correlated with firearm homicide and usually overall homicide (Grinshteyn & Hemenway, 2016 American Journal of Medicine, in press). Comparisons between the United States and the UK make this abundantly clear.


The rate of gun ownership is 3.3 per 100 people in the population in Great Britain (England, Wales and Scotland) compared with the US rate of 101, thirty times higher.


The annual rate of gun homicide per 100,000 of the population is currently 0.03 in Great Britain. This compares with 3.6 in the USA, a rate that is 120-fold greater. The total firearms death rate (including suicides and accidents as well) is 51 times higher in the US than in the UK.


Some other figures are worth noting:


  • In the US some two thirds of homicides involve a gun while in Great Britain the figure is approximately 5%.
  • There were 5,800 handgun homicides in the US in 2013. In the same year in Great Britain - where handguns are prohibited - fewer than 20 murders involved a handgun.

So gun control clearly does work! The UK has a low rate of gun crime but more can be done - people are still being killed and injured unnecessarily.



Guns are a serious problem in America. Everybody knows it but the crazies who value their neighborhood sheriff wannabe toys more than public safety. Fact.
Click to expand...

If you’re trying to claim guns are a problem you should look at overall homicide rate not just homicide by gun. What you’ll find is the white homicide rate despite greater gun ownership are about 1/10 that of the black rate in America and on part with that of Canada and the EU

To only look at “total gun deaths” is also a dumb way to compare. If you look at suicide rates we are actually slightly lower most years than England/Wales despite all those scary guns.

So no, gun ownership is neither correlated with homicide rates nor suicide rates.

Every year we have more guns than the year before. And yet nearly every year since around 1990 the homicide rate has decreased and suicides move up and down annually. Despite more and more firearms
 
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#27,469
#27,469
LouderVol said:
yeah, I revoked those items after I saw hog's post.

and yes you have. you have constantly ridiculed people in this thread/forum or wanting a gun to travel through Atlanta because they are scared of something happening on the connector, or some other part of town. I know because I have weighed in on your side in those conversations that Atlanta isn't as dangerous as they make it out to be.
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There was a poster who said he carries extra ammo when he travels through Atlanta. My comments where to him specifically, the rest were generic.
 
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#27,470
#27,470
Vol8188 said:
If you’re trying to claim guns are a problem you should look at overall homicide rate not just homicide by gun. What you’ll find is the white homicide rate despite greater gun ownership are about 1/10 that of the black rate in America and on part with that of Canada and the EU
Click to expand...
It's pretty wild what happens when you look into data. Most deaths by firearm are suicides, I believe. And only a tiny, tiny fraction by "assault weapons".
 
#27,474
#27,474
ButchPlz said:
It's pretty wild what happens when you look into data. Most deaths by firearm are suicides, I believe. And only a tiny, tiny fraction by "assault weapons".
Click to expand...

And the most common age of suicide is 65+. All suicides aren’t equal. 18 year old killing themselves is terrible. But if you’re 75, your quality of life diminishes, and you decide you’re done, it’s really hard for me to see that as being equally bad

Edit: important to add too that our suicide rate is lower than the country he wishes to compare to
 
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#27,475
#27,475
ButchPlz said:
It's pretty wild what happens when you look into data. Most deaths by firearm are suicides, I believe. And only a tiny, tiny fraction by "assault weapons".
Click to expand...

So we don't really have a gun violence problem in America? That's what you seem to be saying. Don't have a problem with mass shooting and assault rifles--which are obviously used in many if not most mass shootings? All we need is a few more "thoughts and prayers"? Conservatives are always in search of an excuse for gun violence that doesn't involve guns. I'm quite sure the "responsible gun owner" nonsense has been completely debunked. Just in the last two/three weeks, there have been a dozen cases involving completely innocent people shot and killed by crazies with guns---people who mistakenly pulled into the wrong driveway, people who got into the wrong car by mistake, people who asked a neighbor to stop shooting his gun, on and on and on...and yet the crazies think more people should have guns! Sick...insane.
 
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