Gun control debate (merged)

#25,176
#25,176
joevol33 said:
The man literally said "you don't have a right to use a gun to defend yourself", but you think everyone is taking it out of context?🤣🤣🤣. Dude, come on, you can't be that naive, or think we are 🤣
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I think you should not quote him out of the full context and do a little research before you say that there is no right in Canada to defend yourself, including with a gun.
 
#25,179
#25,179
So extending LG's logic that gun theft victims would now be the perps and criminals, we could create an entire new theory of criminal law. For example, depositors would be criminally liable for bank robbery for keeping their money in a bank.

Muggees, previously victims of muggers, would become felons for putting themselves in a position to be mugged and the muggers are now innocent victims of the muggees.

In the hands of legislatures full of lawyers, the possibilities are endless
 
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#25,182
#25,182
I got a gun. You got a gun. Darn nigh everybody's got a gun. And now a machine has one too. Gun rights for everybody, everywhere, AND everything. Woo-hoo
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article272377508.html

A man died, not funny, but in a weird way, it is. Should know you don't carry metal objects into an MIR room. Makes me wonder if the gun was already cocked for use. Otherwise, how'd the trigger get pulled?
 
#25,183
#25,183
WoodsmanVol said:
I got a gun. You got a gun. Darn nigh everybody's got a gun. And now a machine has one too. Gun rights for everybody, everywhere, AND everything. Woo-hoo
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article272377508.html

A man died, not funny, but in a weird way, it is. Should know you don't carry metal objects into an MIR room. Makes me wonder if the gun was already cocked for use. Otherwise, how'd the trigger get pulled?
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Setting aside the opening salvo of hyperbole (nevermind it being in another country altogether) there is the curiosity with the mechanics involved. The only thing that article said referred to the weapon being "in his waistband" so one might assume something snagged the trigger. In any case it was exceedingly foolish to ignore the warnings of having any metals subject to strong magnetic forces on you in an MRI environment.
 
#25,185
#25,185
lawgator1 said:
But we know people do idiotic things like leave them in dresser drawers or in glove compartments. There needs to be a consequence for that when the gun is then stolen. Does not necessarily have to be a major crime.

But for example when a person buys a handgun, how about they sign an agreement that they will maintain it securely or dispose of it in any one of a number of lawful ways. Every three years they provide proof that they still lawfully possess it or have lawfully disposed of it (for example if you want to get rid of it go to a collection site -- could be any gun shop -- and get a receipt showing you no longer possess it).

You get a reminder as the three years approaches and you get a notice if three years goes by, giving you another 90 days to show possession or lawful disposition. If after that time you have not done so, you are fined $5,000.

But, if you then show possession or lawful disposition, its reduced to $25 to cover the paperwork.

This way, anyone can buy a gun, they just have to exercise some minimal due diligence to keep is from ending up in the hands of a guy like last night.
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Poll taxes are illegal.

A glove compartment in a locked car, and a dresser in a locked house. How the eff is keeping your own property in your own property going to be a crime now.

You are literally just out here to criminalize gun ownership. One criminal and one victim isnt enough. You want two criminals.
 
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#25,186
#25,186
hog88 said:
How about HELL NO and a few other choice words?

Again you are trying to victim blame, no different than blaming a rape victim for wearing a revealing outfit to a party. "It was she that was irresponsible and caused teh rape by wearing such a tempting outfit" is the argument you are making. If someone has the car/house broken into and their property is stolen they are a victim of a crime.
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It's not just victim blaming, its finding the victim guilty of the crime committed against them.
 
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#25,187
#25,187
GroverCleveland said:
So extending LG's logic that gun theft victims would now be the perps and criminals, we could create an entire new theory of criminal law. For example, depositors would be criminally liable for bank robbery for keeping their money in a bank.

Muggees, previously victims of muggers, would become felons for putting themselves in a position to be mugged and the muggers are now innocent victims of the muggees.

In the hands of legislatures full of lawyers, the possibilities are endless
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Is it not already that way ??
 
#25,189
#25,189
GroverCleveland said:
It’s getting there.
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I do think a gun owmer has common sense responsibilities to practice. (Don't leave guns in view in unlocked cars). But, most states by law view a car as an extension of the home, thus an extension of your domain as far as personal protection. If you have a gun locked up in your car, and out of view, and your car is broke into, there is no logical interpretation of law that should hold the gun owner legally accountable. Your domain was invaded and effort had to be made to steal your property (gun).

I've never been hell bent on carrying. Owned a few pistols over the years here and there and never got a carry permit. But, these days we like to travel with it in the boot for obvious reasons, and having a CC makes me legal in almost 40 states to have in my car accross state lines. My step son travels a bit. There's a couple gas stations off the interstate in Macon, GA he would fuel up at on occasion, and said he never stood outside his car at these two places pumping gas without his pistol openly in his hand. Otherwise he said you'd get robbed. (Got my CC approval and all my documents. Just got to get to DMV, pay my fee and get my permit and new DL).
 
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#25,190
#25,190
LadyVolette said:
Is it because they feel someone might come into the apartment and take it? I put mine up in the closet and the bullets in a different area lol.. I know I won’t be able to do anything fast, I just like knowing I have it if I needed it lol.. when we drove through New Orleans we had a loaded revolver that I carried in my Coach purse 😂.. the trigger is a very hard pull
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I believe that is their concern. Other people having access, and possibly without warning/permission.
 
#25,191
#25,191
GVF said:
I do think a gun owmer has common sense responsibilities to practice. (Don't leave guns in view in unlocked cars). But, most states by law view a car as an extension of the home, thus an extension of your domain as far as personal protection. If you have a gun locked up in your car, and out of view, and your car is broke into, there is no logical interpretation of law that should hold the gun owner legally accountable. Your domain was invaded and effort had to be made to steal your property (gun).

I've never been hell bent on carrying. Owned a few pistols over the years here and there and never got a carry permit. But, these days we like to travel with it in the boot for obvious reasons, and having a CC makes me legal in almost 40 states to have in my car accross state lines. My step son travels a bit. There's a couple gas stations off the interstate in Macon, GA he would fuel up at on occasion, and said he never stood outside his car at these two places pumping gas without his pistol openly in his hand. Otherwise he said you'd get robbed. (Got my CC approval and all my documents. Just got to get to DMV, pay my fee and get my permit and new DL).
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Yeah, south Macon is, shall we say, rough. Lived in Hawkinsville south of Warner Robins until moving to Tennessee. Miss friends but not living there.
 
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#25,192
#25,192
lawgator1 said:
People have made that argument before here and its extremely weak because cars have infinitely more completely benign purposes than guns. One is not counseled to place their car in a safe. Its just such a completely different thing that the analogy is so obviously a very inapt one.
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Benign but kills more people on a per unit case?
 
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#25,193
#25,193
GroverCleveland said:
Yeah, south Macon is, shall we say, rough. Lived in Hawkinsville south of Warner Robins until moving to Tennessee. Miss friends but not living there.
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Grew up in Griffin. Then 16 years in Hartwell before moving to TN. Even back in the 80's, anything from Forsyth down was rough even then. Macon never has been a place you can rest easy, that I can recall. Played alot of adult softball after my college days and we played roughly 8 months a year. Lot's of tournaments around Macon and Dublin. It was always suspect. But, probably just as suspect up at South Metro fields below Six Flags, and over at Softball Country Club off 285 in Decatur. Now that I think about, none of the softball complexes were ever in "nice safe areas." Hawkinsville may not have qualified as a rough area, but you're starting to get into BFE around there. My step son lives outside Valdosta now about 10 miles north of Moody. Forgot how spartan rural south GA was outside of the metros. Griffin has some history I'm sure, but not terrible. For the most part my time in HS and living there didn't seem to have too many major racial stresses. The police department there is dirty as crap, but they targeted my nephew probably more than any non-white town.
 
#25,194
#25,194
GVF said:
I do think a gun owmer has common sense responsibilities to practice. (Don't leave guns in view in unlocked cars). But, most states by law view a car as an extension of the home, thus an extension of your domain as far as personal protection. If you have a gun locked up in your car, and out of view, and your car is broke into, there is no logical interpretation of law that should hold the gun owner legally accountable. Your domain was invaded and effort had to be made to steal your property (gun).

I've never been hell bent on carrying. Owned a few pistols over the years here and there and never got a carry permit. But, these days we like to travel with it in the boot for obvious reasons, and having a CC makes me legal in almost 40 states to have in my car accross state lines. My step son travels a bit. There's a couple gas stations off the interstate in Macon, GA he would fuel up at on occasion, and said he never stood outside his car at these two places pumping gas without his pistol openly in his hand. Otherwise he said you'd get robbed. (Got my CC approval and all my documents. Just got to get to DMV, pay my fee and get my permit and new DL).
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The issue is what they think reasonable to secure your guns. They illustrate often and loudly they have no real understanding of how guns work at even the most fundamental level, fully-semiautomatic being a great examole. There is no way their ideas for storage would 1. Work for actually storing. 2. Stop the crimes in question. 3. Make any sort of sense.

And they would find you guilty for the crime committed against you.

As someone who recently had their car broken into I will say LG and his ideas can go play in traffic. Dealing with the break in was enough of an ordeal, and now LG wants me to be a criminal for being the victim in something I didnt have any control over. No gun was involved, but it doesnt change my stance.
 
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#25,195
#25,195
GroverCleveland said:
Yeah, south Macon is, shall we say, rough. Lived in Hawkinsville south of Warner Robins until moving to Tennessee. Miss friends but not living there.
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Same here. Didn't regret growing up in Griffin. Don't miss it. But, have no remaining family ties to go back for, so haven't been there in maybe 20 years. I'm sure Griffin has a history, but my time there always seemd to be pretty stress free racially. Alot of us are still lifelong friends accross the divides and talk somewhat regular through FB. Just don't know why Macon was always so suspect. It's a huge step up to hit Warner Robbins/Houston County line.

EDIT: Sorry for hte double reply. I thought I accidentally deleted the first and started over.....
 
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#25,196
#25,196
LouderVol said:
The issue is what they think reasonable to secure your guns. They illustrate often and loudly they have no real understanding of how guns work at even the most fundamental level, fully-semiautomatic being a great examole. There is no way their ideas for storage would 1. Work for actually storing. 2. Stop the crimes in question. 3. Make any sort of sense.

And they would find you guilty for the crime committed against you.

As someone who recently had their car broken into I will say LG and his ideas can go play in traffic. Dealing with the break in was enough of an ordeal, and now LG wants me to be a criminal for being the victim in something I didnt have any control over. No gun was involved, but it doesnt change my stance.
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Agree with all that. Even your assessment of LG. That's one lawyer that would rep the perp over the vic 24/7/365. Afterall if you are the vic of a gun crime, you might as well have offed yourself, since it's your fault anyways.
 
#25,197
#25,197
lawgator1 said:
But we know people do idiotic things like leave them in dresser drawers or in glove compartments. There needs to be a consequence for that when the gun is then stolen. Does not necessarily have to be a major crime.

But for example when a person buys a handgun, how about they sign an agreement that they will maintain it securely or dispose of it in any one of a number of lawful ways. Every three years they provide proof that they still lawfully possess it or have lawfully disposed of it (for example if you want to get rid of it go to a collection site -- could be any gun shop -- and get a receipt showing you no longer possess it).

You get a reminder as the three years approaches and you get a notice if three years goes by, giving you another 90 days to show possession or lawful disposition. If after that time you have not done so, you are fined $5,000.

But, if you then show possession or lawful disposition, its reduced to $25 to cover the paperwork.

This way, anyone can buy a gun, they just have to exercise some minimal due diligence to keep is from ending up in the hands of a guy like last night.
Click to expand...

May have already been addressed.

Are you not concerned with the precedent? What if I leave my car unlocked and someone steals it and goes on a rampage running over people?
 
#25,199
#25,199
GVF said:
I do think a gun owmer has common sense responsibilities to practice. (Don't leave guns in view in unlocked cars). But, most states by law view a car as an extension of the home, thus an extension of your domain as far as personal protection. If you have a gun locked up in your car, and out of view, and your car is broke into, there is no logical interpretation of law that should hold the gun owner legally accountable. Your domain was invaded and effort had to be made to steal your property (gun).

I've never been hell bent on carrying. Owned a few pistols over the years here and there and never got a carry permit. But, these days we like to travel with it in the boot for obvious reasons, and having a CC makes me legal in almost 40 states to have in my car accross state lines. My step son travels a bit. There's a couple gas stations off the interstate in Macon, GA he would fuel up at on occasion, and said he never stood outside his car at these two places pumping gas without his pistol openly in his hand. Otherwise he said you'd get robbed. (Got my CC approval and all my documents. Just got to get to DMV, pay my fee and get my permit and new DL).
Click to expand...


I believe in North Carolina if you’re transporting a firearm it’s suppose to be out in clear view.
 
#25,200
#25,200
C-south said:
I believe in North Carolina if you’re transporting a firearm it’s suppose to be out in clear view.
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Years ago in GA when we owned handguns for fun/target I believe it was the same. and maybe still true if you don't have a permit. But, while driving we would have the pistol out on the seat or dash, clip removed and empty, and ammo behind the seats not readily reachable. And if for some stupid reason we got pulled over, we immediately let the officer know we had one, where it was, and that it was unloaded and ammo was separated, and then we waited on instruction before we moved. And we never had issues or got told that illegal.
 
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