Harris vs. Cheney: Who ya got?

#1
GroverCleveland

GroverCleveland

22nd & 24th POTUS; Predecessor to 45 and 47.
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#1
Thought this might stir the pot.

I occasionally have this discussion with people on former VP Dick Cheney about conflating effectiveness with likability. I'll start with "Dick Cheney was one of, if not the most, effective VP in US history." And then sit back. "Yeah, at shooting people while hunting. Yuck! Yuck, Yuck!" or one of any dozen tropes that have been popular over the years. Let'em gnash their teeth and then make the postulation about the difference between being an effective person and one whom aligns political views with. Ask those who are gnashing their teeth, pulling their hair out and rending their clothes over him, well, if one had something that had to be accomplished, whatever it is, name someone who could get it done quicker than Dick Cheney.

Compare him to the current laughing hyena occupying the office. Really looking forward to reading some defenses of Harris that could claim she is, in any imaginable way, effective at anything.

I'd take Cheney seven days a week and twice on Sunday.
 
#4
#4
Cheney is a scumbag but I would rather take a hunting trip with him then have to deal with the unqualified cackling tramp
 
#6
#6
Cheney was very effective. But he pushed a policy with regards Iraq that got us involved in a war in which we had no place and entangled is in the region for literally decades. Full disclaimer: at the time I thought it was the right move. Hindsight has proven me wrong. America can’t be the world’s policeman. The temptation to intervene just because you CAN intervene is strong and the American people justifiably can’t stand to see injustice in other countries. But sometimes you just have to step back and take a breath.
Now Balloon Head Biden and even our own „conservatives“ in Congress are working overtime to try and get us deeper and deeper into the Ukraine conflict. Once again an absolute moral travesty but one in which the long term repressions of our involvement are perilous beyond imagination.
 
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#9
#9
There is no doubt that between the 2 if I needed something done I would pick Cheney. His talent was getting things done.
 
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#10
#10
Sorry, but I can never think of Dick Cheney without remembering this Looney Tunes classic 😂

The man entered the meme Parthenon with his infamous hunting trip
 
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#12
#12
GroverCleveland said:
Thought this might stir the pot.

I occasionally have this discussion with people on former VP Dick Cheney about conflating effectiveness with likability. I'll start with "Dick Cheney was one of, if not the most, effective VP in US history." And then sit back. "Yeah, at shooting people while hunting. Yuck! Yuck, Yuck!" or one of any dozen tropes that have been popular over the years. Let'em gnash their teeth and then make the postulation about the difference between being an effective person and one whom aligns political views with. Ask those who are gnashing their teeth, pulling their hair out and rending their clothes over him, well, if one had something that had to be accomplished, whatever it is, name someone who could get it done quicker than Dick Cheney.

Compare him to the current laughing hyena occupying the office. Really looking forward to reading some defenses of Harris that could claim she is, in any imaginable way, effective at anything.

I'd take Cheney seven days a week and twice on Sunday.
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What I can say about Cheney, he only cared for the end result and not the destruction on the path there. That’s why he was effective. Collateral damage meant very little to him. Has Harris done anything noteworthy that I’ve missed?
 
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#14
#14
The other thing he ignored was another great geopolitical maxim. „It is very easy to choose to start a war. You have little control though over how or when to end it“
 
#15
#15
OrangeTsar said:
The other thing he ignored was another great geopolitical maxim. „It is very easy to choose to start a war. You have little control though over how or when to end it“
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Cheney didn't want war to end since peace is bad for business. He pushed one of the biggest failures ever in US policy to make it happen. He was more effective than bin Laden at damaging America
 
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#16
#16
NurseGoodVol said:
What I can say about Cheney, he only cared for the end result and not the destruction on the path there. That’s why he was effective. Collateral damage meant very little to him. Has Harris done anything noteworthy that I’ve missed?
Click to expand...
She has done a great job as border czar
 
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#22
#22
GroverCleveland said:
Thought this might stir the pot.

I occasionally have this discussion with people on former VP Dick Cheney about conflating effectiveness with likability. I'll start with "Dick Cheney was one of, if not the most, effective VP in US history." And then sit back. "Yeah, at shooting people while hunting. Yuck! Yuck, Yuck!" or one of any dozen tropes that have been popular over the years. Let'em gnash their teeth and then make the postulation about the difference between being an effective person and one whom aligns political views with. Ask those who are gnashing their teeth, pulling their hair out and rending their clothes over him, well, if one had something that had to be accomplished, whatever it is, name someone who could get it done quicker than Dick Cheney.

Compare him to the current laughing hyena occupying the office. Really looking forward to reading some defenses of Harris that could claim she is, in any imaginable way, effective at anything.

I'd take Cheney seven days a week and twice on Sunday.
Click to expand...

Cheney was definitely effective but unfortunately he was effective at enacting very bad policy. He played a major role is our getting involved in the Iraq and Afghanistan. This was based on a lie (WMDs) and it had enormous negative consequences for our country. It blew up our budget and we'll likely never see a balanced budget again. We were a united country prior and now we're hopelessly divided. We have our boys coming back wounded and maimed.

I'm a Republican but Bush/Cheney did more damage than Obama/Biden. We need to admit that

As for Kamala, I'm glad she's not more effective. That's a good thing
 
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#23
#23
GroverCleveland said:
Yeah, but can we really lay the blame for that on him? He just prosecuted the war. Effectively up the point where they thought the area could be democratized/Americanized/whatever. But again, was he the policy maker or the instrument of the policy?
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I think Cheney was the instigator. I am sure a whole lot of the neocons were in agreement but they picked Cheney as the point man since he had W‘s confidence
 
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#24
#24
OrangeTsar said:
Cheney was very effective. But he pushed a policy with regards Iraq that got us involved in a war in which we had no place and entangled is in the region for literally decades. Full disclaimer: at the time I thought it was the right move. Hindsight has proven me wrong. America can’t be the world’s policeman. The temptation to intervene just because you CAN intervene is strong and the American people justifiably can’t stand to see injustice in other countries. But sometimes you just have to step back and take a breath.
Now Balloon Head Biden and even our own „conservatives“ in Congress are working overtime to try and get us deeper and deeper into the Ukraine conflict. Once again an absolute moral travesty but one in which the long term repressions of our involvement are perilous beyond imagination.
Click to expand...
Agree, agree, agree.

I always, however, was afraid it would turn into what it did and thought we should have rolled through, announce do not do this again or we'll be back better than ever and left. Would have be in a much better world position today I believe.
 
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#25
#25
GroverCleveland said:
Agree, agree, agree.

I always, however, was afraid it would turn into what it did and thought we should have rolled through, announce do not do this again or we'll be back better than ever and left. Would have be in a much better world position today I believe.
Click to expand...

Yes but there is no money to be made in doing it that way.
 
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