Kellie Harper discussion/debate thread [merged]

[Prophet1]

You guys, don’t beat me up TOO bad about what I’m going to suggest!

IF Kellie doesn’t get it together and make a tournament run, (cause there’s still a chance), she’ll more than likely still get another year. Considering we don’t have any recruits and we’re not likely to strike gold again in the portal after the Jackson debacle, I really believe it’ll be Kellie’s final season here.

With that being said, I think we should offer the job to……..Candace Parker!!! (Runs and hides )…..I understand she hasn’t coached a lick of basketball in her life, but she could always surround herself with a great staff to help get her where she needs to be. Although I definitely think one of those people should be Andraya Carter and Tamika Cathchings in some capacity, they don’t necessarily have to be assistant coaches, but the basketball knowledge between those 2 alone would make me want them on my staff. Not to mention the recruiting I believe those 2 could do, hell maybe even bring Holly back, we know she was an amazing recruiter as well, cause I don’t know how in the hell she was landing too recruiting classes with the product on the floor.

I only say say this because I really believe we need a POLARIZING type hire at this point. I know a lot of people say we need to get away from the Lady Vol coaching tree, but I feel like Candace, if she’s even interested, would be a great hire. We all know, at the end of the day, you need TOP ELITE horses to win the race! I haven’t seen a team since Texas A&M win a championship without ELITE talent.

Candace, IMO, would be an IMMEDIATE elite recruiter for us, similar to Deion Sanders once he busted on the scene in college Football. The star power would attract ELITE talent, and the passion Candace has for Pat, her legacy, and Tennessee permeates through the TV, so I can only imagine the final, deal closing, pitches she’ll be able to deliver to young girls and parents.

We need an infusion of youthfulness to also bring back a new demographic of fans! The old guard would flock back, but we’ll also have new fan support for Candace’s name alone. Everybody would want to come and see the new show in town. I could even see NBA players starting to come to games or tweet at Tennessee players due to her connections to the NBA.

I know it’s a pipes dream and most likely won’t happen but I’d love to see if it could work!!!

I want some of what you have in that pipe and wet dream. l think Candace current plans over shadow our plans in your post , but if it happens I want a kilo of your stuff.

 

[River67]

Jeff Walz is about the best We could get right now and from what I heard he wanted the job last time but was overlooked by Fulmer.....He can recruit and coach and with Lady VOLS tradition he would do well here.

Louisville isn’t doing too well this year and he has no 2023 recruits

 

[PineyBluff Vo]

Can't say if this is positive or negative for Kellie, but even Pat had some losses in her time here. Year-by-year record of former Lady Vols coach Pat Summitt

 

[Cloudland vol]

After watching Kellie Harper for the past 4 years, I have come to the conclusion and she is Holly Warlick version 2.0 I was lukewarm when she was hired, based on her past record. After 4 almost years, her performance has only solidified my belief. Her teams don't rebouund, play defense, always struggle with turnovers, and seem to always struggle to close out games in the 4th quarter. She has now lost every game to ranked teams this year, after being ranked in the Top 5 preseason. Looking at what Kim Mulkey has done at LSU after less than 2 years makes me ill. Until we hire an upgrade, I am afraid we will never return to our once proud tradition of the Lady Vols. We have Barnes, Heupel, Vitello, et al and need to upgrade the Lady Vols head coach before we end up like the football Vols (before Heupel) for many years to come.

Well said and reasoned.

 

[PineyBluff Vo]

Holly was a right coach to bridge to the next coach after Pat. Tough situation for anyone to be in, but she was the best choice IMO for the time.

Not sure I agree with this.

 

[SGMVols]

I’m not willing to sit through 4 more years of mediocrity waiting for Chastain. If we lose her over a coaching change, so be it. I’ll take the risk that a new coach will be able to keep her committed, or if not, will win more without her than Kellie would’ve won with her anyway.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Come on Lucy Loo, I respect you as a Lady Vol Fan as I am but you need to take the “die hard blinders” off your eyes and acknowledge that KELLIE is just not walking the walk that she talks. She coaches a game that concentrates on play in the paint and domination on the boards. Gotta have players with good hands and quick movement for that to be successful consistently. Additionally the Lady Vols don’t have ”good hands” just witness the number of turnovers per game that turn into points for their opponent. In my opinion, there’s a lot more wrong with the Lady Vols than right and I don’t see it moving in the right direction at this point.

First time anyone has every called me Lucy Loo. But, in any case, you didn't answer the question: Who do want as a replacement?

 

[Majors]

Not sure I agree with this.

That ok, Holly first 4 years were E8, SS, E8, E8. Here final 3 years were struggles but not sure anyone could of had a better run than what she provided in the first 4 years.
Could also say Pats final two years should be * records for Holly as she coached and the team finished with two E8 appearances.

 

[turbovol]

After watching Kellie Harper for the past 4 years, I have come to the conclusion and she is Holly Warlick version 2.0 I was lukewarm when she was hired, based on her past record. After 4 almost years, her performance has only solidified my belief. Her teams don't rebouund, play defense, always struggle with turnovers, and seem to always struggle to close out games in the 4th quarter. She has now lost every game to ranked teams this year, after being ranked in the Top 5 preseason. Looking at what Kim Mulkey has done at LSU after less than 2 years makes me ill. Until we hire an upgrade, I am afraid we will never return to our once proud tradition of the Lady Vols. We have Barnes, Heupel, Vitello, et al and need to upgrade the Lady Vols head coach before we end up like the football Vols (before Heupel) for many years to come.

upgrade "before we end up like the football Vols before Heupel"? Our women's program HAS BEEN like the football Vols before Heupel for many years. What do you think you've been watching for the last 15 years. Heupel has been great--but one year of success is just that. We've had football coaches who started well and then flopped. Let's hope he's finally the exception.

Also, we do rebound well. It's all the rest that's problematic.

 

[turbovol]

Holly was a right coach to bridge to the next coach after Pat. Tough situation for anyone to be in, but she was the best choice IMO for the time.

This is an absurd comment, truly. The best choice? Since when is hiring an seriously under-qualified individual who turned out to be a terrible coach "the best choice" for a premier program? She was clearly the worst choice. Warlick and her staff recruited well--much better than Harper and her staff--but our coaching might have been the worst in major-college women's basketball.

 

[turbovol]

** then

What does sacking the husband do? As I see it, nothing. He's not the chief recruiter and he's not the chief decision maker when it comes to all things related to the team, tactics, everything. It would be pretending to do something...

 

[Ratvol]

Whoever the AD hires, I hope and pray they teach the fundamentals. This coach apparently does not.

Go VOLS

 

[Ratvol]

I really wish Kellie was Pat 2.0 but she ain’t. May be time to look outside UT for a top notch coaching staff.

Go VOLS

 

[Lurker]

This is an absurd comment, truly. The best choice? Since when is hiring an seriously under-qualified individual who turned out to be a terrible coach "the best choice" for a premier program? She was clearly the worst choice. Warlick and her staff recruited well--much better than Harper and her staff--but our coaching might have been the worst in major-college women's basketball.

turbo, I think your assessment is correct, but only in hindsight. At the actual time of the hire nearly everyone wanted to give Holly the job, most especially Pat. It turned out Holly just wasn't a good head coach and we all know that now. When she was hired, however, I don't think anyone knew what was to come.

 

[turbovol]

You would think Fulmer would know how to hire good coaches but alas he had no clue and stuck with VOL family over results...Oh and Beldar...Damn he sh*t the bed on that hire.

We probably could have hired Courtney Banghart--I wrote TWO emails to a UT female associate athletic director strongly suggesting they hire her---but Fulmer and Co. didn't even consider her, I don't believe, and went with the easy, parochial decision. There wasn't a legit coaching search. And for all those so gun-ho about White, he did the same lazy thing when it came to hiring a soccer coach to replace Pensky. Soccer team went from being Top 10 in the nation--20 wins--to 11 wins and quick exits from both tourneys--with all but one starter back. Coaching matters.

 

[vol1981]

What does sacking the husband do? As I see it, nothing. He's not the chief recruiter and he's not the chief decision maker when it comes to all things related to the team, tactics, everything. It would be pretending to do something...

Why are you responding to my post that way?

 

[LVsinceJV]

I think it would for sure help with recruiting and visibility, but...

Tennessee needs a coach who isn't afraid to hurt people's feelings. We know Holly failed in part because she wanted to be their friend. Maybe Kellie is guilty of something similar. I can't imagine that Candace would do better at creating that barrier, and it's not something that you can make the assistants own. If you're gonna "good cop-bad cop", the HC MUST be the "bad cop".

Candace is one person that I have no doubt in my mind would be okay with being the "bad cop," actually. She's practically a sideline coach in the W and is known for being both inspirational and also tough as nails.

 

[LVsinceJV]

You guys, don’t beat me up TOO bad about what I’m going to suggest!

IF Kellie doesn’t get it together and make a tournament run, (cause there’s still a chance), she’ll more than likely still get another year. Considering we don’t have any recruits and we’re not likely to strike gold again in the portal after the Jackson debacle, I really believe it’ll be Kellie’s final season here.

With that being said, I think we should offer the job to……..Candace Parker!!! (Runs and hides )…..I understand she hasn’t coached a lick of basketball in her life, but she could always surround herself with a great staff to help get her where she needs to be. Although I definitely think one of those people should be Andraya Carter and Tamika Cathchings in some capacity, they don’t necessarily have to be assistant coaches, but the basketball knowledge between those 2 alone would make me want them on my staff. Not to mention the recruiting I believe those 2 could do, hell maybe even bring Holly back, we know she was an amazing recruiter as well, cause I don’t know how in the hell she was landing too recruiting classes with the product on the floor.

I only say say this because I really believe we need a POLARIZING type hire at this point. I know a lot of people say we need to get away from the Lady Vol coaching tree, but I feel like Candace, if she’s even interested, would be a great hire. We all know, at the end of the day, you need TOP ELITE horses to win the race! I haven’t seen a team since Texas A&M win a championship without ELITE talent.

Candace, IMO, would be an IMMEDIATE elite recruiter for us, similar to Deion Sanders once he busted on the scene in college Football. The star power would attract ELITE talent, and the passion Candace has for Pat, her legacy, and Tennessee permeates through the TV, so I can only imagine the final, deal closing, pitches she’ll be able to deliver to young girls and parents.

We need an infusion of youthfulness to also bring back a new demographic of fans! The old guard would flock back, but we’ll also have new fan support for Candace’s name alone. Everybody would want to come and see the new show in town. I could even see NBA players starting to come to games or tweet at Tennessee players due to her connections to the NBA.

I know it’s a pipes dream and most likely won’t happen but I’d love to see if it could work!!!

Candace is the only inexperienced former LV that I would truly consider. The problem for her wouldn't be recruiting, it would be learning Tennesse's existing system plus developing it into her own system, all under the extreme pressure that being the head coach of the Lady Vols would entail. It's alot for anyone, but especially a first-time head coach.

 

[Raebo]

Hmmmmm.
Just thinking out loud. Can we fire Jon and then would Coach Kellie quit saving UT firing her and getting us out of paying her buyout? And if Jon is fired and she quits, would she then have to pay UT to get out of her contract?

I am not calling for anyone to be fired, that’s someone else’s job. I just think the contract situation might be interesting.

 

[glv98]

Candace is the only inexperienced former LV that I would truly consider. The problem for her wouldn't be recruiting, it would be learning Tennesse's existing system plus developing it into her own system, all under the extreme pressure that being the head coach of the Lady Vols would entail. It's alot for anyone, but especially a first-time head coach.

Which is why I say no one, not the most beloved LVFL without successful P5 coaching experience need to apply. Let's not keep doing this over and over. No up and comers, no ex players just because, no Mid Major wonderkunds of the season. Don't know who this magical person willing to come on down is, but this time we have to swing for, and hit, a home run. If KJH doesn't work out, and I don't know for sure she won't, we need a reset.

 

[turbovol]

Can't say if this is positive or negative for Kellie, but even Pat had some losses in her time here. Year-by-year record of former Lady Vols coach Pat Summitt

UT fans won't want to acknowledge it--but our program's slide really started during the last 10 or so years of PS's tenure. It went unnoticed because right in the middle of that stretch we landed Parker and Anoiske and with them won back-to-back titles. But in the last stretch of Pat's career, the women's game was changing and she was caught out by it. For something like the first 20 years of her time at UT, the women's game was all about defense and rebounding. Nobody was very good offensively; there were few gifted shooters or scorers. PS was fanatical about defense and rebounding--and so that emphasis dovetailed with the reality of game; and beyond that, she recruited extremely well, competition was limited, and so we rolled over everybody.

But when teams starting getting better offensively, we better coaches and better players started to emerge, we started to struggle. Team offense was not a PS forté. We still won the vast majority of our games, to be sure--but there were a LOT of ugly wins for a period of years--and if one looked closely, one could see problems on the horizon. We had some good offensive teams when we had some star offensive players, like Parker--but in the last stretch of PS's career we were not good offensively, by and large. During our Parker years, whenever PS took Parker out of the game, our offense fell apart--no star to bail us out. That is precisely why Geno gave us problems and beat PS in national title games. There were many years when our shooting and offense in general was quite poor. Go look back at the 2007 national title game between us and Rutgers. It was an absolutely awful offensive performance by both teams--we just ended up being less bad than Rutgers. And the problems that started to bedevil Summitt's teams have bedeviled us ever since. I adored PS and her legacy--a true legend--but in her last stretch the game was passing her by, which is understandable when you coach for 38 years. Happens to everybody with that kind of tenure.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So is all of our best players healthy?

 

[OrangeBeachVol]

This is an absurd comment, truly. The best choice? Since when is hiring an seriously un2der-qualified individual who turned out to be a terrible coach "the best choice" for a premier program? She was clearly the worst choice. Warlick and her staff recruited well--much better than Harper and her staff--but our coaching might have been the worst in major-college women's basketball.

Two reasons:

1. Pat specifically stated she wanted Holly to have the job following her which would have probably caused a fan revolt it she had not been hired.
2. No good experienced HC wants to follow a legend, especially one of Pats level. Seriously doubt they could have gotten a top level coach to follow Pat.
Think Majors addressed both of these in his posts.

IMO the opportunity for that top level coach was when Holly was fired as that would have been an ideal spot for a top level coach. Just be better than Holly. Fulmer was the bad AD at that time and was totally focused on hiring a FB coach. My understanding was he practically had to be told to change LV coaches. He was long time friends with Holly and did not want to fire her. He took the easy quick way out and hired Kelly. Could have even been at the recommendation of Holly. Opportunity missed and here we are.

 

[Voltopia]

upgrade "before we end up like the football Vols before Heupel"? Our women's program HAS BEEN like the football Vols before Heupel for many years.

Nah. Nope. I'm fine with general comparatives, but this one's off.

If we take the last ten years of the Lady Vols program, which is obviously the worst stretch for the Lady Vols post-Pat, they've won 71% of their games. Harper's four years are slightly lower at 69%. If we take the last ten years of Tennessee football, they've won 54% of their games - and that's INCLUDING the 11-2 season. If we go back one season and drop this year's results, the football win percentage drops to just under 50%. I'm pretty sure the football program would have dearly loved to win 7 out of 10 games a year.

I get the general idea of them both being worse compared to their past histories, or arguing the difficulty of winning 65-75% of women's basketball games compared to a team winning 75% of their SEC football games, but regardless, the women's program has been competitive to some degree, whereas the football team has been expired ham most of the entire decade.

 

[Majors]

Hmmmmm.
Just thinking out loud. Can we fire Jon and then would Coach Kellie quit saving UT firing her and getting us out of paying her buyout? And if Jon is fired and she quits, would she then have to pay UT to get out of her contract?

I am not calling for anyone to be fired, that’s someone else’s job. I just think the contract situation might be interesting.

I was tipping into that direction earlier in talking about seasons like these lead over coaching staff overhauls. I assume Jon still reports to the AD and if he/White told Kellie that Jon is not being retained does she resign or try a year without him. Tough situation when your husband/wife is involved.