The Official Detroit Lions Den Thread

#4,408
#4,408
VIDEO: Lions vs. Packers mic’d up is an absolute masterpiece
The Detroit Lions video team produced an amazing 18-minute video of Taylor Decker mic’d up for the finale against the Green Bay Packers.


 
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#4,412
#4,412
A couple crazy things about Hutch::

- NFL Next Gen Stats indicates Hutch was the 2nd most double-teamed EDGE in the NFL (behind only Myles Garrett). 9.5 sacks, 53 pressures.

- 3 INTs and a pass coverage grade of 84.7 (5th in the NFL for DL).

- 953 snaps in 17 games. 56 snaps a game for a rookie in the NFL for a DL is pretty insane
 
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#4,413
#4,413
The computer is out. Time for Lions thoughts.

1) For the first time since 2011, I feel like the franchise is not only trending upwards but has the right GM/coach in place, which might be the first that's happened since Fontes/Chuck Schmidt in the early 90's for Detroit. Holmes has shown an incredible ability to find talent in any round and Campbell is the right coach. He's aggressive, a grinder, gets the players to always play hard for him. He's not stubborn. Getting this team to rally to 8-2 to finish the season is deserving of high praise, especially after trading Hockenson. People are worried about Ben Johnson leaving and I want him to return. But Campbell has helped designed this offense and I feel like he can find the right guy if we need to go that route.

2) Brad Holmes has a really good 2021 draft. He was even better in 2022. He had the third highest graded rookie class by PFF this year. Hutchinson could be the best player in his class (It's probably Sauce but it's a fair argument). Jameson Williams flashed his elite level athleticism and ability to make plays. Josh Pascal had a nice rookie year despite starting the year on IR. Kerby Joseph isn't a good run defender but a legit back field safety with a nose for the ball. He's a starter. James Mitchell came off a torn ACL and contributed. Malcolm Rodriguez is a starting off ball linebacker in the NFL. James Houston is a special pass rusher. I don't know if he's a three down starter but talking about a specialist for pass rushing. Either way, he's an awesome 6th round pick. Chase Lucas is a decent special teamer. Not a starter but at least a decent option on a rookie deal. So by my count, at least 4 guaranteed starters (Hutch, Pascal, Joseph, Rodriguez). A speed demon WR that shows he can get open (Jameson). A super duper pass rusher that might turn into a starter (Houston) and two depth pieces that contributed this year (Mitchell & Lucas). Man that is a hell of a haul.

3) Jared Goff was a top 5 QB the second half of the year and was top 10 in every category you need to succeed for the whole year. He's not a mega arm talent, he's not going to wow you and extend plays like one of the AFC young guns. He gets the ball where it needs to go and played really smart on the 8-2 run. He's going to be even better with a full offseason with Jameson and the TE's getting better. Plus if they get a good RG the OL will be even better. No reason to even think about drafting or acquiring a QB. He's only got $10M worth of dead money yet and his cap hit is $30M in 2023 and in 2024. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if Detroit reworked the contract to get more cap space the next two years. Which works for me. He's the QB for the Lions.

4) I still don't know if I truly buy Aaron Glenn as a good DC but I think the secondary was such a complete mess that it's hard to judge. And the DB's did get better once Aubrey Pleasant was let go. Joseph played much better the second half of the year (Carolina game excluding). And losing Tracy Walker didn't help. There was a gap once they lost him. Jerry Jacobs to me is a perfectly fine, cheap second CB. I don't want him guarding 1's but I don't mind him as the boundary CB. We do need to get a true #1 CB. Something I also would think about in the offseason to help the secondary, I'd move Okudah to the Nickel. He did awesome against Dallas in that role, he's a good tackler for the position and he seemed to play better guarding smaller WR's. Then you draft a field CB in the first like Ringo or Porter or Gonzalez.

5) A lot of free agents, but the five UFA's for sure: Jamaal Williams (I wouldn't pay him more than like 2/$10M but he's so good in short yardage and doesn't have a lot of wear and tear on his body). DeShaun Elliot (Did a nice job filling in for Walker, we missed him in the Carolina game. Perfectly solid especially with Walker's injury). Isaiah Buggs (I hope Pascal takes over the other DT spot, but Buggs is such a leader and valuable 2 down DT. He was really good in goal line situations as well). John Cominsky (Awesome year for him, he's versatile and hustles his ass off. If Houston is just a pass rushing guy, Cominsky as your two down DE is solid). And then one of either Josh Woods or Chris Board for special teams.

6) The Lions currently have $17M in cap space before bringing back anyone. Players I'd expect to be cut: Michael Brockers ($10.5M saved), Romeo Okwara ($7.5M saved), Hali Vaitai ($6.5M saved), Charles Harris ($4M saved). That gets the Lions to $46M in cap space. Those four also didn't contribute much this year and other than Vaitai, all are super easily replaceable.

7) Okay so the draft: To me, here are the five biggest needs in order: Field CB, On Ball LB, RG, TE and I would say RB (if Williams doesn't come back). Corner is obvious, I still like Okudah but as I stated I would move him inside and pair one of Ringo/Gonzalez/Cam Smith/Porter Jr. with him. First round LB's aren't popular, but Trenton Simpson is really good and I think has the athleticism to be an impact player. There should be a lot of good options at TE in the 2nd/3rd round, I believe we can get on. Evan Brown was fine at RG but somebody will pay him to be a starting C. With our first five picks, those four positions need to be addressed. I wouldn't mind getting a RB in the third round with Williams a FA and Swift on the last year of his rookie deal.

8) Some random stuff. Need to sign Jonah Jackson. He's a top 20 guard in football and will be a free agent after 2023. He's too good to let go, especially since we need a RG anyways. I would not bring Chark back. I'd rather role with Reynolds/Williams/Sun God with Raymond and a draft pick as depth. I like Chark, we can use the money elsewhere. Need to upgrade the backup QB position. We can't have what happened last year and we got lucky Goff was able to play every snap. Badgley was fine...go get a real kicker please.

9) I wanted to shout out the OL and how incredible they were this year. They excelled in all situations this year, they dominated in pass pro, really road graded on 3rd/4th & 1's and played pretty clean. Sewell is already a consensus top 3 RT in football (at 22!), Jonah Jackson is a top 20 guard, Ragnow a top 5 C, and Decker is above average (10-15 range) for LT. If they add a road grader/plug and play RG next year, they could be the best OL in all of football. I truly believe that. By the way, this is a young line too. They will only get better.

10) I truly believe the Lions could be the favorites to win the NFC North next year depending on a couple things. We know Holmes can evaluate and draft talent. That's 50% of being a good franchise. Campbell seems to be at minimum an average HC and is growing into the role well. That's 25% of being a good franchise. So the Lions seem to have the right combo. I really hope Ben Johnson stays as an OC one more year because I would love to run year 2 with him and continue to let Goff cook in this offense. The OL is going to be elite and Jameson Williams is going to add a different dimension to the offense. He will be a big time player next year. The schedule isn't too hard and a lot can happen before Week 1. But man is it nice to see Detroit on the upswing.
 
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#4,414
#4,414
zjcvols said:
The computer is out. Time for Lions thoughts.

1) For the first time since 2011, I feel like the franchise is not only trending upwards but has the right GM/coach in place, which might be the first that's happened since Fontes/Chuck Schmidt in the early 90's for Detroit. Holmes has shown an incredible ability to find talent in any round and Campbell is the right coach. He's aggressive, a grinder, gets the players to always play hard for him. He's not stubborn. Getting this team to rally to 8-2 to finish the season is deserving of high praise, especially after trading Hockenson. People are worried about Ben Johnson leaving and I want him to return. But Campbell has helped designed this offense and I feel like he can find the right guy if we need to go that route.

2) Brad Holmes has a really good 2021 draft. He was even better in 2022. He had the third highest graded rookie class by PFF this year. Hutchinson could be the best player in his class (It's probably Sauce but it's a fair argument). Jameson Williams flashed his elite level athleticism and ability to make plays. Josh Pascal had a nice rookie year despite starting the year on IR. Kerby Joseph isn't a good run defender but a legit back field safety with a nose for the ball. He's a starter. James Mitchell came off a torn ACL and contributed. Malcolm Rodriguez is a starting off ball linebacker in the NFL. James Houston is a special pass rusher. I don't know if he's a three down starter but talking about a specialist for pass rushing. Either way, he's an awesome 6th round pick. Chase Lucas is a decent special teamer. Not a starter but at least a decent option on a rookie deal. So by my count, at least 4 guaranteed starters (Hutch, Pascal, Joseph, Rodriguez). A speed demon WR that shows he can get open (Jameson). A super duper pass rusher that might turn into a starter (Houston) and two depth pieces that contributed this year (Mitchell & Lucas). Man that is a hell of a haul.

3) Jared Goff was a top 5 QB the second half of the year and was top 10 in every category you need to succeed for the whole year. He's not a mega arm talent, he's not going to wow you and extend plays like one of the AFC young guns. He gets the ball where it needs to go and played really smart on the 8-2 run. He's going to be even better with a full offseason with Jameson and the TE's getting better. Plus if they get a good RG the OL will be even better. No reason to even think about drafting or acquiring a QB. He's only got $10M worth of dead money yet and his cap hit is $30M in 2023 and in 2024. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if Detroit reworked the contract to get more cap space the next two years. Which works for me. He's the QB for the Lions.

4) I still don't know if I truly buy Aaron Glenn as a good DC but I think the secondary was such a complete mess that it's hard to judge. And the DB's did get better once Aubrey Pleasant was let go. Joseph played much better the second half of the year (Carolina game excluding). And losing Tracy Walker didn't help. There was a gap once they lost him. Jerry Jacobs to me is a perfectly fine, cheap second CB. I don't want him guarding 1's but I don't mind him as the boundary CB. We do need to get a true #1 CB. Something I also would think about in the offseason to help the secondary, I'd move Okudah to the Nickel. He did awesome against Dallas in that role, he's a good tackler for the position and he seemed to play better guarding smaller WR's. Then you draft a field CB in the first like Ringo or Porter or Gonzalez.

5) A lot of free agents, but the five UFA's for sure: Jamaal Williams (I wouldn't pay him more than like 2/$10M but he's so good in short yardage and doesn't have a lot of wear and tear on his body). DeShaun Elliot (Did a nice job filling in for Walker, we missed him in the Carolina game. Perfectly solid especially with Walker's injury). Isaiah Buggs (I hope Pascal takes over the other DT spot, but Buggs is such a leader and valuable 2 down DT. He was really good in goal line situations as well). John Cominsky (Awesome year for him, he's versatile and hustles his ass off. If Houston is just a pass rushing guy, Cominsky as your two down DE is solid). And then one of either Josh Woods or Chris Board for special teams.

6) The Lions currently have $17M in cap space before bringing back anyone. Players I'd expect to be cut: Michael Brockers ($10.5M saved), Romeo Okwara ($7.5M saved), Hali Vaitai ($6.5M saved), Charles Harris ($4M saved). That gets the Lions to $46M in cap space. Those four also didn't contribute much this year and other than Vaitai, all are super easily replaceable.

7) Okay so the draft: To me, here are the five biggest needs in order: Field CB, On Ball LB, RG, TE and I would say RB (if Williams doesn't come back). Corner is obvious, I still like Okudah but as I stated I would move him inside and pair one of Ringo/Gonzalez/Cam Smith/Porter Jr. with him. First round LB's aren't popular, but Trenton Simpson is really good and I think has the athleticism to be an impact player. There should be a lot of good options at TE in the 2nd/3rd round, I believe we can get on. Evan Brown was fine at RG but somebody will pay him to be a starting C. With our first five picks, those four positions need to be addressed. I wouldn't mind getting a RB in the third round with Williams a FA and Swift on the last year of his rookie deal.

8) Some random stuff. Need to sign Jonah Jackson. He's a top 20 guard in football and will be a free agent after 2023. He's too good to let go, especially since we need a RG anyways. I would not bring Chark back. I'd rather role with Reynolds/Williams/Sun God with Raymond and a draft pick as depth. I like Chark, we can use the money elsewhere. Need to upgrade the backup QB position. We can't have what happened last year and we got lucky Goff was able to play every snap. Badgley was fine...go get a real kicker please.

9) I wanted to shout out the OL and how incredible they were this year. They excelled in all situations this year, they dominated in pass pro, really road graded on 3rd/4th & 1's and played pretty clean. Sewell is already a consensus top 3 RT in football (at 22!), Jonah Jackson is a top 20 guard, Ragnow a top 5 C, and Decker is above average (10-15 range) for LT. If they add a road grader/plug and play RG next year, they could be the best OL in all of football. I truly believe that. By the way, this is a young line too. They will only get better.

10) I truly believe the Lions could be the favorites to win the NFC North next year depending on a couple things. We know Holmes can evaluate and draft talent. That's 50% of being a good franchise. Campbell seems to be at minimum an average HC and is growing into the role well. That's 25% of being a good franchise. So the Lions seem to have the right combo. I really hope Ben Johnson stays as an OC one more year because I would love to run year 2 with him and continue to let Goff cook in this offense. The OL is going to be elite and Jameson Williams is going to add a different dimension to the offense. He will be a big time player next year. The schedule isn't too hard and a lot can happen before Week 1. But man is it nice to see Detroit on the upswing.
Click to expand...
Outstanding analysis zjc,, thank you.
 
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#4,415
#4,415
zjcvols said:
The computer is out. Time for Lions thoughts.

1) For the first time since 2011, I feel like the franchise is not only trending upwards but has the right GM/coach in place, which might be the first that's happened since Fontes/Chuck Schmidt in the early 90's for Detroit. Holmes has shown an incredible ability to find talent in any round and Campbell is the right coach. He's aggressive, a grinder, gets the players to always play hard for him. He's not stubborn. Getting this team to rally to 8-2 to finish the season is deserving of high praise, especially after trading Hockenson. People are worried about Ben Johnson leaving and I want him to return. But Campbell has helped designed this offense and I feel like he can find the right guy if we need to go that route.

2) Brad Holmes has a really good 2021 draft. He was even better in 2022. He had the third highest graded rookie class by PFF this year. Hutchinson could be the best player in his class (It's probably Sauce but it's a fair argument). Jameson Williams flashed his elite level athleticism and ability to make plays. Josh Pascal had a nice rookie year despite starting the year on IR. Kerby Joseph isn't a good run defender but a legit back field safety with a nose for the ball. He's a starter. James Mitchell came off a torn ACL and contributed. Malcolm Rodriguez is a starting off ball linebacker in the NFL. James Houston is a special pass rusher. I don't know if he's a three down starter but talking about a specialist for pass rushing. Either way, he's an awesome 6th round pick. Chase Lucas is a decent special teamer. Not a starter but at least a decent option on a rookie deal. So by my count, at least 4 guaranteed starters (Hutch, Pascal, Joseph, Rodriguez). A speed demon WR that shows he can get open (Jameson). A super duper pass rusher that might turn into a starter (Houston) and two depth pieces that contributed this year (Mitchell & Lucas). Man that is a hell of a haul.

3) Jared Goff was a top 5 QB the second half of the year and was top 10 in every category you need to succeed for the whole year. He's not a mega arm talent, he's not going to wow you and extend plays like one of the AFC young guns. He gets the ball where it needs to go and played really smart on the 8-2 run. He's going to be even better with a full offseason with Jameson and the TE's getting better. Plus if they get a good RG the OL will be even better. No reason to even think about drafting or acquiring a QB. He's only got $10M worth of dead money yet and his cap hit is $30M in 2023 and in 2024. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if Detroit reworked the contract to get more cap space the next two years. Which works for me. He's the QB for the Lions.

4) I still don't know if I truly buy Aaron Glenn as a good DC but I think the secondary was such a complete mess that it's hard to judge. And the DB's did get better once Aubrey Pleasant was let go. Joseph played much better the second half of the year (Carolina game excluding). And losing Tracy Walker didn't help. There was a gap once they lost him. Jerry Jacobs to me is a perfectly fine, cheap second CB. I don't want him guarding 1's but I don't mind him as the boundary CB. We do need to get a true #1 CB. Something I also would think about in the offseason to help the secondary, I'd move Okudah to the Nickel. He did awesome against Dallas in that role, he's a good tackler for the position and he seemed to play better guarding smaller WR's. Then you draft a field CB in the first like Ringo or Porter or Gonzalez.

5) A lot of free agents, but the five UFA's for sure: Jamaal Williams (I wouldn't pay him more than like 2/$10M but he's so good in short yardage and doesn't have a lot of wear and tear on his body). DeShaun Elliot (Did a nice job filling in for Walker, we missed him in the Carolina game. Perfectly solid especially with Walker's injury). Isaiah Buggs (I hope Pascal takes over the other DT spot, but Buggs is such a leader and valuable 2 down DT. He was really good in goal line situations as well). John Cominsky (Awesome year for him, he's versatile and hustles his ass off. If Houston is just a pass rushing guy, Cominsky as your two down DE is solid). And then one of either Josh Woods or Chris Board for special teams.

6) The Lions currently have $17M in cap space before bringing back anyone. Players I'd expect to be cut: Michael Brockers ($10.5M saved), Romeo Okwara ($7.5M saved), Hali Vaitai ($6.5M saved), Charles Harris ($4M saved). That gets the Lions to $46M in cap space. Those four also didn't contribute much this year and other than Vaitai, all are super easily replaceable.

7) Okay so the draft: To me, here are the five biggest needs in order: Field CB, On Ball LB, RG, TE and I would say RB (if Williams doesn't come back). Corner is obvious, I still like Okudah but as I stated I would move him inside and pair one of Ringo/Gonzalez/Cam Smith/Porter Jr. with him. First round LB's aren't popular, but Trenton Simpson is really good and I think has the athleticism to be an impact player. There should be a lot of good options at TE in the 2nd/3rd round, I believe we can get on. Evan Brown was fine at RG but somebody will pay him to be a starting C. With our first five picks, those four positions need to be addressed. I wouldn't mind getting a RB in the third round with Williams a FA and Swift on the last year of his rookie deal.

8) Some random stuff. Need to sign Jonah Jackson. He's a top 20 guard in football and will be a free agent after 2023. He's too good to let go, especially since we need a RG anyways. I would not bring Chark back. I'd rather role with Reynolds/Williams/Sun God with Raymond and a draft pick as depth. I like Chark, we can use the money elsewhere. Need to upgrade the backup QB position. We can't have what happened last year and we got lucky Goff was able to play every snap. Badgley was fine...go get a real kicker please.

9) I wanted to shout out the OL and how incredible they were this year. They excelled in all situations this year, they dominated in pass pro, really road graded on 3rd/4th & 1's and played pretty clean. Sewell is already a consensus top 3 RT in football (at 22!), Jonah Jackson is a top 20 guard, Ragnow a top 5 C, and Decker is above average (10-15 range) for LT. If they add a road grader/plug and play RG next year, they could be the best OL in all of football. I truly believe that. By the way, this is a young line too. They will only get better.

10) I truly believe the Lions could be the favorites to win the NFC North next year depending on a couple things. We know Holmes can evaluate and draft talent. That's 50% of being a good franchise. Campbell seems to be at minimum an average HC and is growing into the role well. That's 25% of being a good franchise. So the Lions seem to have the right combo. I really hope Ben Johnson stays as an OC one more year because I would love to run year 2 with him and continue to let Goff cook in this offense. The OL is going to be elite and Jameson Williams is going to add a different dimension to the offense. He will be a big time player next year. The schedule isn't too hard and a lot can happen before Week 1. But man is it nice to see Detroit on the upswing.
Click to expand...
Excellent write up 👏👏👏 This is the most excited I’ve been at the start of the offseason.
 
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#4,424
#4,424
If I see one more mock draft with the Lions taking a QB in the first round I will lose it
 
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