Game Thread: (11/12) Lady Vols 63 - UCLA. 80

[djtee]

Geno pretty much plays only 5 or 6 players and those 5 scored 32, 20, 20 & 16.. But, I see ur point..

You are correct Geno plays only 5-6 players how did that work out against SC last year. And how do you think that will work out this year vs SC and Stanford?.

 

[Volfan2012]

The giving up 80 points is what I worry about. You can win scoring 63 points if your inclined to play defense and rebound. Sc and Stanford have some great offensive players yet at the end of the game it was 61 to 61 because both also have elite defenses. We shouldn't be giving up 80 against any team 70 should be the max if your any good defensively every time you play. Should be less against unranked teams. I hope we can have a decent season, but it not going to happen giving up 80 points or even 75 that is the danger zone. We went for 63 points on 52 shots which is a good scoring percentage for that many shots and just getting that few shots a game is the problem caused by lack of rebounding and turnovers. The three big losses the shot differential has been ugly and as long as we allow it to happen it will continue to make us lose.

 

[Majors]

Geno pretty much plays only 5 or 6 players and those 5 scored 32, 20, 20 & 16.. But, I see ur point..

and recruits at a high level for his bench.

 

[lvocd]

They made 16 threes today which I watched most of the game and they were getting wide open looks. I'm not giving up three point shots without strong contest up in their grill defense. If they drive and make 16 twos you still shave 16 points off that 80 they got today.

That's a very good point. Also, there's a good chance Key or Franklin could have stopped some layups if they'd gotten past our perimeter defenders. Those threes surely boosted UCLA's morale more, too, than a two-pt layup. I would have my team playing exhausting defense to begin every game to set the tone.

 

[creekdipper]

Fair honest criticism has been here for awhile. It’s just getting noticed by more and more who wanted to ignore it. Passionate fans have been the ones saying it, it was not in hopes she would fail. It was because she hasn’t shown she’s up to the job. Some passionate fans have been blinded by the whole Lady Vol legacy to see it. Agree on personal shots at the players, no need.

Would you not agree that there have been plenty of regular posters (not just the drive-bys) who have been critical of Kellie from the start, never have anything good to say about her or the team, and seem to gloat at difficulties? Would you not agree that starting last seadon at 18-1 despite a tough schedule and losin their all-star senior at tve first of the season and climbing to #4 in the rankings was at least an indication that she might be up to the job?

This year's problems thus far and the failure to sign a Top 100 '23 recruit are very concerning, but those who were not optimistic about a good upcoming season following the portal signings already had their minds made up. And is we were 5-0 at this point, you know they'd be saying, "Just wait until next year." We all know who these posters are...they don't even try to hide their dislike for Kellie. They most certainly do want Kellie to fail and extend tbeir disdain toward her players.

 

[Volfan2012]

That's a very good point. Also, there's a good chance Key or Franklin could have stopped some layups if they'd gotten past our perimeter defenders. Those threes surely boosted UCLA's morale more, too, than a two-pt layup. I would have my team playing exhausting defense to begin every game to set the tone.

You have to run teams that have three point shooters off the three point line. We weren't getting many open looks from the three today they were encouraging the drive and we were missing a lot of layups.

 

[Volfan2012]

Watching the interviews today Coach Harper and the players keep saying they know what the problem is so why are we not fixing it? If you know what it is then good chance by game five you would be getting it solved. I know there are games where a team will get hot from the three , but I'm sure going to make then earn them not give them the open shot and hope they miss.

 

[jonson]

see Stanford vs SCAR for my reference. No worries about us being out of timeouts. Kellie is allergic to them or so it seems.

Except that most on the West Coast wouldn't call Tara an "offensive genius," if that was your reference. She's a great coach/recruiter, but defense (and game planning on that side) is more her thing than offense or even player development. Stanford has had its share of scoring droughts even in the best of times/seasons, with turnovers often playing a key role.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

I so didn't want to believe this , but I guess you and all the other "negas" saying that adherence to the glory days are stopping this program from regaining elite status are right. If we know the old system won't work anymore, Kellie Harper certainly knows it. But you're saying she refuses to do anything different because that's not how we did it in the olden days when we wuz great?

The irony of course is that if this is true, Pat Summitt would hate it more than everyone else in the world combined. She knew she needed offensive help, she owned it, she sought it out. So why would anyone hold back the program this way thinking they were honoring her and what she built? It's ludicrious!

The other argument some make is that as creatures of the olden system, Holly and Kelly aren't capable of coaching any other way. But if that's the case why not bring in help? An offensive guru? Coaches want to win and this problem is so broadly identified they cannot be unaware. So to think they willfully refuse or that it's beyond anyone's resources or capabilities just doesn't make sense.

Giv, first off I'm not a nega. At least I don't think so, and you could probably get that confirmed via Darth. LOL,,, I don't unfairly criticize Kellie, her staff or her players, at least I try not to. For at least a couple of seasons now, I've pleaded with people to give her a reasonable chance before judging her or calling for her firing. And I don't believe that just because someone played for Pat, they are not likely to succeed as a head coach. I support Kellie until and unless she shows me for sure that she isn't the answer at Tennessee. I want her to succeed for our sake and the program's sake. But that doesn't also mean that she is immune from criticism from the fan base (including me) for specific things that seem wanting - like the way the team looks right now.

I'm just reacting to a poster who earlier complained that we do not have an elite offense, and never really have, just throwing out reasons why that my be so. I'm just engaging in conjecture and speculation. Throwing out ideas to see if the stick.

If I were AD White, I would bring in a retired, respected WCBB coach to review the program and report back to me. Then I'd sit down with Kellie and go over the report and see how agreeable she was to the recommended changes, and go from there. That report might include what you suggest - an offensive mind as an assistant head coach. I could see that happening.

 

[Majors]

Would you not agree that there have been plenty of regular posters (not just the drive-bys) who have been critical of Kellie from the start, never have anything good to say about her or the team, and seem to gloat at difficulties? Would you not agree that starting last seadon at 18-1 despite a tough schedule and losin their all-star senior at tve first of the season and climbing to #4 in the rankings was at least an indication that she might be up to the job?

This year's problems thus far and the failure to sign a Top 100 '23 recruit are very concerning, but those who were not optimistic about a good upcoming season following the portal signings already had their minds made up. And is we were 5-0 at this point, you know they'd be saying, "Just wait until next year." We all know who these posters are...they don't even try to hide their dislike for Kellie. They most certainly do want Kellie to fail and extend tbeir disdain toward her players.

I wasn’t here when she was hired but I can imagine it wasn’t well received by some and hopeful of glory days by others. Each year is a continuation from the last and last year had good moments and bad but in the judgement games we didn’t show up. It’s not Kellie, it’s Jon and Sam too but it’s her ship to manage. You addressed the recruiting and she’s had more than enough time to establish relationships with the 23-beyond classes. If you can’t recruit at a high level you can’t win at a high level. We need to be beyond winning the games we are supposed to win (losing those games right now) and starting competing again with the judgement teams.

 

[Sudden Impact]

Xs & Os

 

[Volfan2012]

Giv, first off I'm not a nega. At least I don't think so, and you could probably get that confirmed via Darth. LOL,,, I don't unfairly criticize Kellie, her staff or her players, at least I try not to. For at least a couple of seasons now, I've pleaded with people to give her a reasonable chance before judging her or calling for her firing. And I don't believe that just because someone played for Pat, they are not likely to succeed as a head coach. I support Kellie until and unless she shows me for sure that she isn't the answer at Tennessee. I want her to succeed for our sake and the program's sake. But that doesn't also mean that she is immune from criticism from the fan base (including me) for specific things that seem wanting - like the way the team looks right now.

I'm just reacting to a poster who earlier complained that we do not have an elite offense, and never really have, just throwing out reasons why that my be so. I'm just engaging in conjecture and speculation. Throwing out ideas to see if the stick.

If I were AD White, I would bring in a retired, respected WCBB coach to review the program and report back to me. Then I'd sit down with Kellie and go over the report and see how agreeable she was to the recommended changes, and go from there. That report might include what you suggest - an offensive mind as an assistant head coach. I could see that happening.

Certainly not being negative to point out the problems when they are happening almost every game and always the identical problems that we've endured this season and part of last season. The players and Coach Harper even say what they did wrong at every interview session and that is rebound , didn't defend, and to many turnovers. So it is their team they need to fix it. They need to identify the players that are not defending, not rebounding, turning the ball over. These are the problems that have to be resolved or you keep going in a circle and getting no where as the losses pile up against teams you should have the talent to beat.

 

[madtownvol]

Giv, first off I'm not a nega. At least I don't think so, and you could probably get that confirmed via Darth. LOL,,, I don't unfairly criticize Kellie, her staff or her players, at least I try not to. For at least a couple of seasons now, I've pleaded with people to give her a reasonable chance before judging her or calling for her firing. And I don't believe that just because someone played for Pat, they are not likely to succeed as a head coach. I support Kellie until and unless she shows me for sure that she isn't the answer at Tennessee. I want her to succeed for our sake and the program's sake. But that doesn't also mean that she is immune from criticism from the fan base (including me) for specific things that seem wanting - like the way the team looks right now.

I'm just reacting to a poster who earlier complained that we do not have an elite offense, and never really have, just throwing out reasons why that my be so. I'm just engaging in conjecture and speculation. Throwing out ideas to see if the stick.

If I were AD White, I would bring in a retired, respected WCBB coach to review the program and report back to me. Then I'd sit down with Kellie and go over the report and see how agreeable she was to the recommended changes, and go from there. That report might include what you suggest - an offensive mind as an assistant head coach. I could see that happening.

Given Rutgers is a lesser opponent than UCLA but the LVs shot 12 for 25 from the 3, which is excellent by any standard. It is not like the LVs are "three yards and a cloud of dust" every outing. Over the years, we have some good offensive teams who would suddenly not be able hit wide open shots when it mattered most.

During Rennia's junior year, she had been clutch all season and then in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament could not find the ocean. I don't have an explanation but I don;t think it;s Kellie going, dammit we are running the offensive scheme from my 97 team, come hell or high water!!!

 

[Majors]

Giv, first off I'm not a nega. At least I don't think so, and you could probably get that confirmed via Darth. LOL,,, I don't unfairly criticize Kellie, her staff or her players, at least I try not to. For at least a couple of seasons now, I've pleaded with people to give her a reasonable chance before judging her or calling for her firing. And I don't believe that just because someone played for Pat, they are not likely to succeed as a head coach. I support Kellie until and unless she shows me for sure that she isn't the answer at Tennessee. I want her to succeed for our sake and the program's sake. But that doesn't also mean that she is immune from criticism from the fan base (including me) for specific things that seem wanting - like the way the team looks right now.

I'm just reacting to a poster who earlier complained that we do not have an elite offense, and never really have, just throwing out reasons why that my be so. I'm just engaging in conjecture and speculation. Throwing out ideas to see if the stick.

If I were AD White, I would bring in a retired, respected WCBB coach to review the program and report back to me. Then I'd sit down with Kellie and go over the report and see how agreeable she was to the recommended changes, and go from there. That report might include what you suggest - an offensive mind as an assistant head coach. I could see that happening.

One of us, one of us

 

[NoBackBoard]

Watching the interviews today Coach Harper and the players keep saying they know what the problem is so why are we not fixing it? If you know what it is then good chance by game five you would be getting it solved. I know there are games where a team will get hot from the three , but I'm sure going to make then earn them not give them the open shot and hope they miss.

It’s like reverse déjà vu. They say they know, Holly kept saying she didn’t know, but the results are the same.

 

[creekdipper]

I agree with a lot you say, Majors. Kellie was always one of my favorite Lady Vols, and when she got the job at Western, I hoped that she might one day succeed Pat. Despite that, I felt that Wes Moore might be a good interim hire after Holly (with a pay bump) to right the ship. I'm not blindly loyal to Kellie although it would break my heart to see her replaced. Regardless, there are a ton of issues to be addressed including areas that were regarded as strengths last season.

The portal experiment (many potential negatives there), the platooning, the lack of consistent, cohesive offense, holding time outs, unforced turnovers, leaving outside shooters open...all fair game for criticism. Now rebounding and effort can be added. But the tools are there to have a really good year. We have a lot of upcoming games to work on things, and I disagree that you can't revamp/retool an offense in-season. It doesn't have to be intricate, just well-executed. Kellie and staff are paid to get the team playing at maximum level while mentoring young women. Let's not quit on them when they need us most.

As for "losing games we're supposed to win," see Texas, Louisville, Iowa, etc. Two of those teams coached by "big name," highly-paid coaches whom many here wanted. It happens.

 

[1reVOLver]

Pat knew what she was good at and was honest about what needed help. She asked Harry Perretta, long time Villanova wbb coach, for advice about offensive plans. She understood that the game had evolved, and that rebounding and defense, while essential, were not sufficient to maintain competitive excellence.

After over forty years at Villanova, Perretta retired a couple of years ago. I suppose if one were to ask nicely…

 

[Darth_Vol]

After over forty years at Villanova, Perretta retired a couple of years ago. I suppose if one were to ask nicely…

What's Phil Jackson up to these days?

 

[creekdipper]

With all the game film, coaching clinics, instructional books and videos, coaching friendships, etc. to draw upon, understanding coaching strategies isn't some hidden mystery. It just takes the commitment to implement a system that takes advantage of your players' strengths and then recruit to that system.

Three staff members with a wide variety of coaching experiences including hc responsibilities for all three ought to be sufficient.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

More uniformed opinions about recruiting here...This was in the newspaper...

"There were eight 2023 prospects on Tennessee's radar at the beginning of June. After the summer, that number was four.

Tennessee was selective in who it ultimately decided to target, but it had the flexibility to do so. Jordan Horston, Rickea Jackson and Tamari Key are eligible to enter the 2023 WNBA Draft. They also have an extra year of eligibility due to COVID-19 that would allow any or all to return for a fifth season.

The Lady Vols' recruiting needs tie into those decisions. Harper can still add to the 2023 class before next season, but she also can afford to wait on the decisions of three game-changers currently on the roster.

So, the list was intentionally pared down to four final 2023 targets, whether Tennessee got them or not.

Horston, Jackson and Key may still leave and Harper would be scrambling to round out the roster via recruiting or the transfer portal. But that was a calculated gamble."

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/spor...-harper-recruiting-no-2023-class/69600325007/

 

[NoBackBoard]

In the post-game presser Kellie was asked who is the leader on the floor. She paused and said she thinks she knows but she’s not 100% sure and they need to have the right people step up with the right message.

For a team with 6 active seniors, that’s beyond troubling.

 

[Darth_Vol]

In the post-game presser Kellie was asked who is the leader on the floor. She paused and said she thinks she knows but she’s not 100% sure and they need to have the right people step up with the right message.

For a team with 6 active seniors, that’s beyond troubling.

But, at least she has really changed the culture...

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Whether you agree or disagree everyone should be allowed to voice their opinion on this board. But i do think the fake eyelashes talk should stop right now, No matter how you feel about that player. As for this team i feel like the other player or KJH are trying to put everything on Horton and Jackson shoulders that`s not gonna work against the better teams. Here the biggest problem with TN there talent level is very weak with, Darby, Miles, Striplin, Puckett, Marta. Walker, Pissott? TBD.

That’s what I’ve been saying, but Key is part of that as well, shes tall and that’s about it.

 

[LasVegasBill23]

Would she be considered a “troll”? Or does she get a free pass for saying what others have said. Hits different when it’s one of our own.

Andraya is an analyst now. I know Kirk Herbstreit took a lot of heat for calling it like it was with his alma mater Ohio State.... Caused him to move his family from Columbus to Nashville

 

[Rickster]

More uniformed opinions about recruiting here...This was in the newspaper...

"There were eight 2023 prospects on Tennessee's radar at the beginning of June. After the summer, that number was four.

Tennessee was selective in who it ultimately decided to target, but it had the flexibility to do so. Jordan Horston, Rickea Jackson and Tamari Key are eligible to enter the 2023 WNBA Draft. They also have an extra year of eligibility due to COVID-19 that would allow any or all to return for a fifth season.

The Lady Vols' recruiting needs tie into those decisions. Harper can still add to the 2023 class before next season, but she also can afford to wait on the decisions of three game-changers currently on the roster.

So, the list was intentionally pared down to four final 2023 targets, whether Tennessee got them or not.

Horston, Jackson and Key may still leave and Harper would be scrambling to round out the roster via recruiting or the transfer portal. But that was a calculated gamble."

https://www.knoxnews.com/story/spor...-harper-recruiting-no-2023-class/69600325007/

I'm concerned that those 3 may not return. Why would they if they didn't enjoy playing together or are losing or being hounded by social media? As far as playing the subs, Kellie needs to because they may be the main contributors next year or later. She knows how important it is to get her players experience.