War in Ukraine

#51,501
#51,501
The $91B..well considering it is debt and will never be paid back...let's call it $200B for now. Plus add the cost of inflation...
 
#51,503
#51,503
It's clear after this latest missile that Zelensky is pushing propaganda to get other countries involved in the war for escalation. I'm not sure I blame him though. Other countries having bewildering leaders aren't his problem.
 
#51,507
#51,507
volgr said:
Being printed, although they had to briefly pause to print some ballots for a few days.
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No, the ballots were printed two months before election day to mail out to voters so they had a two month lead time for voting. It become a voting quarter instead of voting day. It's a 3rd world cheating scheme. Pennsylvania was voting 50 days before the election. Democrats are way out in front of this on how to cheat and be unethical and get away with it. Hey it ain't cheating if they can bake the rules to these type of 3rd world authoritarian tactics.
 
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#51,508
#51,508
Rasputin_Vol said:
Novorossiya is Russian. Have you heard of Catherine The Great? Potemkin?
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I love how you keep bringing up a prussian/german who lead a coup against the rightful Russian ruler as your exemplar of Russia. One who faced near constant rebellions, some happened in your New Russia.

And even if discarding the obvious bs about her lifestyles, she very clearly doesn't fit your Russian moral crusade message at all.

Again a very odd thing for you to latch on to. Even all your claims about New Russia. What was it before? Some local Ukrainian governments, the Crimean Khanate. even the colonizing wasnt a majority Russian. The leadership class was, but the people werent.

I always love actually looking into your references to find out how little they fit your argument.
 
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#51,509
#51,509
LouderVol said:
I love how you keep bringing up a prussian/german who lead a coup against the rightful Russian ruler as your exemplar of Russia. One who faced near constant rebellions, some happened in your New Russia.

And even if discarding the obvious bs about her lifestyles, she very clearly doesn't fit your Russian moral crusade message at all.

Again a very odd thing for you to latch on to. Even all your claims about New Russia. What was it before? Some local Ukrainian governments, the Crimean Khanate. even the colonizing wasnt a majority Russian. The leadership class was, but the people werent.

I always love actually looking into your references to find out how little they fit your argument.
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It’s like his Putin was just a translator for the KGB argument, completely ignoring the fact that he was the head of the FSB. He literally just banks on us not having any prior knowledge or looking anything up. Maybe that works on the Russian population.
 
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#51,510
#51,510
Rasputin_Vol said:
Novorossiya is Russian.
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results-of-1991-ukrainian-independence-referendum-v0-5xh5lk9cfor91.png
 
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#51,511
#51,511
BreatheUT said:
So Zelensky propagates a lie that Russia launched a missile in Poland and NATO needs to respond?

So many of you jokers think he should be helping with our military response? Lol. Insane.

So even though Russia probably didn't so it, it's ultimately their fault? The stupid just get stupider.
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I was under the impression that Western military/intel initiated attributing the missile to Russia. It appears Zel is retreating from certainty it wasn't Ukrainian Zelensky backtracks on missile claims

I don't know what the bold refers to.
 
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#51,512
#51,512
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wow... So you would use weasel words like that with alleged allies also? Similar to how the agreement to not move NATO east was an agreement that wasn't in writing?

You are showing your colors today. I can't believe you would support weasel legalese.
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Weasel words? You are the one changing the words to fit your argument. You need to step back, see the actual facts first, and then make up your mind about things.
 
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#51,513
#51,513
NCFisher said:
I was under the impression that Western military/intel initiated attributing the missile to Russia. It appears Zel is retreating from certainty it wasn't Ukrainian Zelensky backtracks on missile claims

I don't know what the bold refers to.
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Zelensky is given a platform in front of all the leaders around the world, and in this social media age is putting pressure on governments to show sympathy and fund their endless war. He clearly is making baseless claims that he appears to only be walking back after being caught.

Now I think Russia is in the wrong and we need to stay committed to helping from a distance but three things: 1) we shouldn't have an open checkbook 2) we need to demand an accounting of the funding and 3) we should expect and insist European countries contribute more.

What is the end game here? This administration is so feekless I don't even think Russia will talk to them. This administration is not respected across the world. You can see it in all aspects of our foreign policy. A far cry from the Trump Administration and Pompeo.
 
#51,514
#51,514
BreatheUT said:
Zelensky is given a platform in front of all the leaders around the world, and in this social media age is putting pressure on governments to show sympathy and fund their endless war. He clearly is making baseless claims that he appears to only be walking back after being caught.

Now I think Russia is in the wrong and we need to stay committed to helping from a distance but three things: 1) we shouldn't have an open checkbook 2) we need to demand an accounting of the funding and 3) we should expect and insist European countries contribute more.

What is the end game here? This administration is so feekless I don't even think Russia will talk to them. This administration is not respected across the world. You can see it in all aspects of our foreign policy. A far cry from the Trump Administration and Pompeo.
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There is no way our government would demand an accounting of the funding............ It might catch on.
 
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#51,516
#51,516
BreatheUT said:
Zelensky is given a platform in front of all the leaders around the world, and in this social media age is putting pressure on governments to show sympathy and fund their endless war. He clearly is making baseless claims that he appears to only be walking back after being caught.

Now I think Russia is in the wrong and we need to stay committed to helping from a distance but three things: 1) we shouldn't have an open checkbook 2) we need to demand an accounting of the funding and 3) we should expect and insist European countries contribute more.

What is the end game here? This administration is so feekless I don't even think Russia will talk to them. This administration is not respected across the world. You can see it in all aspects of our foreign policy. A far cry from the Trump Administration and Pompeo.
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Agree with virtually all that, but if I follow the timeline correctly it seems Western sources - including Poland - prematurely established the 'Russian' premise and Z followed suit. NATO/U.S./Poland have sophisticated tracking systems and are in the position to determine source and correct the narrative. No one looked to Ukraine for the determination. The narrative is corrected and Z is again following suit.

Ukraine is in a bad way and we should critically examine any claims from them, but Z is following the West's military lead here.
 
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#51,517
#51,517
Burhead said:
Its always the same with you: 2014 "coup" this, NATO "agreement" that.

Fact of the matter is there was no agreement on the eastward expansion of NATO. If the Russians wanted to stop that after the Cold War they should demanded a legal, documented treaty between the two parties. It is not our fault #1 that eastern European countries wanted in NATO for fears of resurgent Russia (rightfully so now) and #2 Russia didn't get this "agreement on paper". Even then, if there even was an agreement, history is written by the victors.
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It's also strange that they claim NATO and Russia agreed NATO wouldnt spread east but Russia tried to join NATO...

Putin Says He Discussed Russia's Possible NATO Membership With Bill Clinton

"During the meeting I said, 'We would consider an option that Russia might join NATO,'" Putin says. "Clinton answered, 'I have no objection.' But the entire U.S. delegation got very nervous."

But we are supposed to believe Putin is diametrically opposed to NATO moving its borders....
 
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#51,518
#51,518
Rasputin_Vol said:
They had to get involved because the Kyiv regime would have had control of Crimea and their Black Sea port. Then the attacks on the Russian people in Donbas.

Had the US State Dept been more concerned about issues here at home rather than Ukraine, this conversation is moot.
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Their port was never under threat. No one was taking away their access. Just more made up fear mongering.

The attacks on ethnic Russians never would have happened if they didnt rebel.
 
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#51,522
#51,522
tvolsfan said:
It’s like his Putin was just a translator for the KGB argument, completely ignoring the fact that he was the head of the FSB. He literally just banks on us not having any prior knowledge or looking anything up. Maybe that works on the Russian population.
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Yeah but the taxi cab driver to president rags to riches story is such a tear jerker it's hard to blame them for parroting it.
 
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#51,523
#51,523
If Zelensky is willing to lie about whose rockets struck Poland and then double down and plead for the West to strike Russia because of it....what won't he lie about?

He has shown what it is. You cant put that paste back in the tube.
 
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#51,524
#51,524
volgr said:
If Zelensky is willing to lie about whose rockets struck Poland and then double down and plead for the West to strike Russia because of it....what won't he lie about?

He has shown what it is. You cant put that paste back in the tube.
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And for some reason his masters arent responding to what they obviously told him to say. In fact the masters came out and disproved by themselves what they told their puppet to say, when they had every opprotunity to roll with their own lie.

I wonder why? Maybe hes no one puppet
 
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#51,525
#51,525
volgr said:
If Zelensky is willing to lie about whose rockets struck Poland and then double down and plead for the West to strike Russia because of it....what won't he lie about?

He has shown what it is. You cant put that paste back in the tube.
Click to expand...
I haven't seen anything where he's specifically asked the west to retaliate and strike Russia.
 
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