War in Ukraine

#46,235
#46,235
Rasputin_Vol said:
I disagree, if anything, we actually need true diplomats and to practice genuine diplomacy more... not relying on our military to resolve these issues. Had we had diplomats that could see Russia's security concerns in the same manner that we see our own security concerns, we could have avoided this entire Ukraine/NATO debacle in the early 1990s.


Let's say what you say is true (I think it is closer to being a mixed bag of USSR and US meddling), it still comes down to the majority of these situations having nothing to do with us or of no strategic benefit to us ("us" meaning average everyday Americans). Who gives a damn what goes on in SE Asia or the Middle East? Oh oh oh... the Middle East has oil. So? If we developed our own domestic oil production and were friendly neighbors with oil producers in this hemisphere, there would be no need to meddle in a sandbox on the other side of the globe. That is simply pizz pour leadership... at best. At worst, it is a corrupt, rapacious leadership class that doesn't feel the need to use diplomacy, but instead chooses military solutions.


Hey Boomer, the information is out here to understand completely what was going on during the Cold War. What kind of historical perspective do I need to gain in order to understand Vetnam, Guatemala, Iran, Congo, Chile or any of these other debacles? This is still recent history and most of the players involved were still alive well into my lifetime to talk about or write about the stories.

Just because you lived through an era, that doesn't give you more historical perspective. It just gives you more of an emotional perspective because you lived through the times and have a better sense of the atmosphere. But having a feeling about a time period doesn't necessarily mean that the facts around the origins of these events is any different.
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You do know that being part of something or living through a part of history is different from reading about it later. There's a significant difference. What you read today is done with hindsight - that what might have happened didn't. When living in the moment, you don't have the luxury of knowing it turned out OK.

Sure we should be able and hope to depend on diplomacy. It just hasn't turned out that diplomats have a great track record. Often they are just fools that get it wrong - in fact, I think the list of great diplomats would be very short. Sometimes diplomats may have been up to the task, but the decision makers gave them little room to work. An example: you've pointed out Europe's dependency on other regions for energy needs. Hitler knew and understood which was a major reason for conquering other countries. No amount of diplomacy is going to cure a German telling Romania "we're taking over because we need your oil and refining." Size matters (when it comes down to resources); we have enough land to meet basic needs - a lot of other countries don't have the landmass encompassing natural resources to say the same, and that's the likely reason for many wars ... and colonialism. Diplomacy could solve some of that assuming the country with needed resources is developed enough to produce and trade.
 
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#46,236
#46,236
tvolsfan said:
Got to love people using anecdotal evidence in the face of overwhelming data.
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I haven't been following but what's the overwhelming data and who does it point to.

For me the more interesting part of the article is that other parts of the world think we did it (even if we didn't - I don't know). Blinken's "opportunity" comments certainly fuel that fire.
 
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#46,238
#46,238
MontyPython said:
By their own admission, Russian troops are losing because the AFU has better equipment and Intel.

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Sounds like somebody should get a clue and understand who is playing the home game and what the stakes actually are. In this case the home team isn't fighting to win a game; they are fighting for survival. There's the old adage about not cornering a dangerous animal, and apparently some people are just too dumb to understand. Apparently Pootin's balls were bigger than his brain because he definitely didn't understand what he was getting in to when he started his 3 day war.
 
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#46,240
#46,240
volinbham said:
I haven't been following but what's the overwhelming data and who does it point to.

For me the more interesting part of the article is that other parts of the world think we did it (even if we didn't - I don't know). Blinken's "opportunity" comments certainly fuel that fire.
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To be clear, I was talking more about the Ukraine War in general rather than the pipeline itself (and the assertion that most people around the world don't see it as an act of aggression).
 
#46,241
#46,241
LSU-SIU said:
Kind of like NATO is nothing without the United States and the European Union is nothing without Germany. Everyone is now along for the ride.
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Except NATO is a mutual support treaty and not outright annexation of another country. And the UK left the EU peacefully. Ask Hungary and Poland how that kind of thing worked for them. For some strange reason, I see a significant difference. BTW, in case you forgot or never knew, the walls and fences around the Soviet Union weren't to keep people out. NATO countries and the EU don't have that problem.
 
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#46,242
#46,242
AM64 said:
Except NATO is a mutual support treaty and not outright annexation of another country. And the UK left the EU peacefully. Ask Hungary and Poland how that kind of thing worked for them. For some strange reason, I see a significant difference. BTW, in case you forgot or never knew, the walls and fences around the Soviet Union weren't to keep people out. NATO countries and the EU don't have that problem.
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I don't know what that has to do with the context of what was said.

NATO is nothing without the United States, the European Union is nothing without Germany. Everyone is just along for the ride now. Bitch ass Europe will do what their master the United States says. They will shut up and get back in line i.e. modern sovereignty.

Ask Hungary and Poland how that kind of thing worked for them.
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Maybe for the time being, what has that got to do with the original comments.

My take is Europe will collapse and that was before the UK bailed, but ole well, either way Germany looks toast.

BTW, in case you forgot or never knew, the walls and fences around the Soviet Union weren't to keep people out.
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In the case of the United States, they just revoke your passport. Not sure what that has to do with what I wrote though.
 
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#46,247
#46,247
All I know is I would feel a whole lot better rather than who currently occupies the WH.I think this WH will only accept regime change...and that is one scary proposition. And sure enough he said it.

"So we're entering the most unstable geopolitical era in many decades. We're entering the first hyperinflation in more than 40 years. And we're entering the first escalation to the nuclear precipice in 60 years. 60 years ago exactly this month was the Cuban missile crisis. This is the most dangerous moment since the Cuban missile crisis."
 
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#46,248
#46,248
Rasputin_Vol said:
Meanwhile, on the ground in Ukraine, just like the Kherson offensive fizzled out at the end of last week, looks like the Kharkiv offensive is going to be settled back down over the few weeks or so.
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Man, this is good stuff Ras. You still feeling this way? You still laughing about the "frostbite" narrative?
 
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