Top 5 All Time Vol Coaches

[stevenrich2003]

5. John Barnhill

He lost 5 games in 4 years... Not sure this credits being top 5 all time, but he should for sure be in the conversation.

 

[MAD]

Soon to be added to the Top 5 list.

 

[NighthawkVol]

Some haters go waaaaay out of their way to 'splain why Phillip Fulmer is a nobody who happened to be in the right seat when the Vols won a national title. It was all Johnny Majors and David Cutcliffe who won it, Fulmer was simply there to collect the accolades.

Utter horse poop.

Give the man his due. You don't win a national title and two SEC titles, as well as 152 football games (at a win rate of 75%) unless you've got it going on.

Fulmer absolutely the 2nd best head football coach we've ever had.

break/break

The guy who is getting short shrift is John Barnhill.

Robert Neyland took two sabbaticals from coaching the Vols in his career. The first was only a single year, while he was deployed by the Army down to Panama. In that year he was gone, the Vols fell hard to a losing season (4-5). Fell so hard that it took Neyland two recovery years (6-2-2 followed by 6-3-1) before he was back to 10- and 11-win seasons.

But get this: Neyland's other break was for five years, during World War II. The guy who filled in for him, John Barnhill, just did this:
8-2-0
9-1-1
(didn't play football in 1943)
7-1-1
8-1-0

If I remember right, that puts John Barnhill at the pinnacle of Tennessee head football coaches, measured by winning percentage. Yep. Better even than the General.

If there's one coach in Vols' history that we under-appreciate, John Barnhill is the fella.

Go Vols!

I'd put Fulmer 3rd, which is fantastic for a program like Tennessee. I'm not saying he didn't do anything. I'm saying why Majors' performance was more impressive. Everything doesn't have to be in the extremes.

Let's put it this way:

1) Imagine a 42 year-old Majors (the age he was in 1977) takes over a Tennessee program that was in the shape it was in in 1993. No having to build from the bottom, no awful facilities, no dearth of talent. He takes over a program with a Heisman contender at QB, loads of future NFL talent, and coming off of 4 straight NY's Day bowls and 2 SEC championships in the last 4 years. How well do you think Majors performs? How much better is his record? How many SEC titles does he win? What are the odds he wins a National Title? More than one?

2) Now imagine a 42 year-old Fulmer (the age he was in 1993) takes over a Tennessee program that was in the shape it was in in 1977. Bottom level facilities, a dearth of talent, etc. What are the odds Fulmer takes THAT program and builds it to a top 10 caliber program, much less wins SEC and National Titles?

I think the odds of Majors taking an elite program and doing as well or better than Fulmer did with it is much greater than Fulmer taking a downtrodden program and building it as well as Majors did. I think Fulmer would've failed at that endeavor and Majors would have succeeded. That's why I put Majors ahead of him. Not because I think what Fulmer did was nothing...it most certainly wasn't.

 

[volfan2024]

Football forum football coaches

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Soon to be added to the Top 5 list.

View attachment 476884

That brings up a really great question: what would it take for Heupel to leap into the Top 5?

Okay, let's say the current 5 are Neyland, Fulmer, Majors, Dickey, and Barnhill, not necessarily in that order. I know this is controversial, hence this entire thread, but we gotta go with something to establish the yardstick.

So let's list out some key stats for each of the five:

Seasons coaching the Vols: Neyland was like 21 seasons over a 26 year period...Fulmer 16...Majors 15...Dickey 6...Barnhill 4. So let's say minimum 4 seasons as head coach.

Number of victories: Neyland 173 wins, Fulmer 152, Majors 116, Dickey 46, and Barnhill 32. So minimum 33 victories needed.

Win percentage: Barnhill 84.6%, Neyland 82.9%, Fulmer 74.5%, Dickey 73.8%, and Majors 64.5%. So 65% is the coin of the realm here.

Conference titles: Neyland 8, Majors 3, Fulmer 2, Dickey 2, Barnhill 0 (in fairness to Barnhill, they may not have declared conference champions in the WWII years; not sure about that). So let's say it takes at least one conference title, and preferably two, to break into the Top 5.

National titles (going with all six claimed titles, even the squirrely 1967 one): Neyland 4, Fulmer 1, Dickey 1, Majors and Barnhill 0. Getting into the Top 3 of this list would require a national championship, but not required for getting into the Top 5.

So there we go. To break into the Top 5 Volunteer head coaches of all time, Josh Heupel needs to coach 4 seasons, win at least 33 games, at a rate of 65% or better, and get at least one SEC championship.

To date, Josh has coached 1 season (3 to go), won 7 games (needs 26 more), improve from his current 54% win rate by another 10-11%, and win the SEC once.

If we go 9-3 this season, 10-3 with a bowl victory, Josh will be at 17-9 after two seasons, a win rate of almost 61%. He will be well on his way. "About halfway there," though winning an SEC title is the long pole in the tent.

I'm rooting for him.

Go Vols!

 

[MAD]

That brings up a really great question: what would it take for Heupel to leap into the Top 5?

Okay, let's say the current 5 are Neyland, Fulmer, Majors, Dickey, and Barnhill, not necessarily in that order. I know this is controversial, hence this entire thread, but we gotta go with something to establish the yardstick.

So let's list out some key stats for each of the five:

Seasons coaching the Vols: Neyland was like 21 seasons over a 26 year period...Fulmer 16...Majors 15...Dickey 6...Barnhill 4. So let's say minimum 4 seasons as head coach.

Number of victories: Neyland 173 wins, Fulmer 152, Majors 116, Dickey 46, and Barnhill 32. So minimum 33 victories needed.

Win percentage: Barnhill 84.6%, Neyland 82.9%, Fulmer 74.5%, Dickey 73.8%, and Majors 64.5%. So 65% is the coin of the realm here.

Conference titles: Neyland 8, Majors 3, Fulmer 2, Dickey 2, Barnhill 0 (in fairness to Barnhill, they may not have declared conference champions in the WWII years; not sure about that). So let's say it takes at least one conference title, and preferably two, to break into the Top 5.

National titles (going with all six claimed titles, even the squirrely 1967 one): Neyland 4, Fulmer 1, Dickey 1, Majors and Barnhill 0. Getting into the Top 3 of this list would require a national championship, but not required for getting into the Top 5.

So there we go. To break into the Top 5 Volunteer head coaches of all time, Josh Heupel needs to coach 4 seasons, win at least 33 games, at a rate of 65% or better, and get at least one SEC championship.

To date, Josh has coached 1 season (3 to go), won 7 games (needs 26 more), improve from his current 54% win rate by another 10-11%, and win the SEC once.

If we go 9-3 this season, 10-3 with a bowl victory, Josh will be at 17-9 after two seasons, a win rate of almost 61%. He will be well on his way. "About halfway there," though winning an SEC title is the long pole in the tent.

I'm rooting for him.

Go Vols!

Love it, very clever post.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I'd put Fulmer 3rd, which is fantastic for a program like Tennessee. I'm not saying he didn't do anything. I'm saying why Majors' performance was more impressive. Everything doesn't have to be in the extremes.

Let's put it this way:

1) Imagine a 42 year-old Majors (the age he was in 1977) takes over a Tennessee program that was in the shape it was in in 1993. No having to build from the bottom, no awful facilities, no dearth of talent. He takes over a program with a Heisman contender at QB, loads of future NFL talent, and coming off of 4 straight NY's Day bowls and 2 SEC championships in the last 4 years. How well do you think Majors performs? How much better is his record? How many SEC titles does he win? What are the odds he wins a National Title? More than one?

2) Now imagine a 42 year-old Fulmer (the age he was in 1993) takes over a Tennessee program that was in the shape it was in in 1977. Bottom level facilities, a dearth of talent, etc. What are the odds Fulmer takes THAT program and builds it to a top 10 caliber program, much less wins SEC and National Titles?

I think the odds of Majors taking an elite program and doing as well or better than Fulmer did with it is much greater than Fulmer taking a downtrodden program and building it as well as Majors did. I think Fulmer would've failed at that endeavor and Majors would have succeeded. That's why I put Majors ahead of him. Not because I think what Fulmer did was nothing...it most certainly wasn't.

Yeah, I won't argue with anyone who flip-flops Fulmer and Majors between the #2 and #3 spots. I only have a beef with the people who disrespect Fulmer and try to ignore his absolute accomplishments.

As for why I put Phillip ahead of Johnny on my personal list, see post #30 in this thread. Statistically, Fulmer was ahead of Majors in most ways. As anyone who has had a complete and successful career in any field knows, sometimes you get handed a peach, and sometimes you get a handful of poop. You just gotta make the most of whatever you get...and you'll be objectively judged on how you do in the end, regardless.

Go Vols!

 

[onevol74]

I would too. Dickey would be #2 if he’d stuck around. And Majors would be unquestionably #2 if he’d been hired to replace Dickey in 1970.

But Majors took over a dire situation and left Tennessee a top 10 program. Fulmer left it worse than he found it. I don’t think the 1998 season overcomes that when comparing the two.

This all day.

 

[NighthawkVol]

Yeah, I won't argue with anyone who flip-flops Fulmer and Majors between the #2 and #3 spots. I only have a beef with the people who disrespect Fulmer and try to ignore his absolute accomplishments.

As for why I put Phillip ahead of Johnny on my personal list, see post #30 in this thread. Statistically, Fulmer was ahead of Majors in most ways. As anyone who has had a complete and successful career in any field knows, sometimes you get handed a peach, and sometimes you get a handful of poop. You just gotta make the most of whatever you get...and you'll be objectively judged on how you do in the end, regardless.

Go Vols!

That's fair. I don't agree with discounting the situations they took over, but I can respect your point.

 

[ksgovols]

I would too. Dickey would be #2 if he’d stuck around. And Majors would be unquestionably #2 if he’d been hired to replace Dickey in 1970.

But Majors took over a dire situation and left Tennessee a top 10 program. Fulmer left it worse than he found it. I don’t think the 1998 season overcomes that when comparing the two.

Let Fulmer teams play a 6 game SEC schedule that always included Vandy, Kentucky and Ole Miss in addition to Alabama and Auburn. Majors led teams have winning records against only Vandy, Kentucky and Ole Miss plus LSU. Almost every 8-3 or 9-2 season was followed immediately by a 6-5, 5-6 year. Losing records against every other team in the conference. 85 Sugar Bowl and a miracle in South Bend don't trump a Natty and the SEC championships that Fulmer led teams played in.

I didn't agree with the way either coach was shown the door, but with 20-40 years of hindsight, Fulmer's teams were just better. The coaching staff continuity was better and the recruiting was better. Majors was more entertaining on his post game show.

 

[DaddyChad]

I do too. But that wasn’t my point.

Fulmer doesn’t win a NC in 1998 without the ground work Majors did. There’s zero evidence to suggest he was capable of building a program from the ground up. He couldn’t even maintain the elite one he had handed to him. What Majors did was more impressive.

I agree completely. The rebuild imo was more impressive than Fulmer getting us over the hump to win the title. Majors didn’t help himself though either. He never really held his tongue.

 

[iuvol]

Majors didn't have a ton of success until Fulmer came in as an assistant so it goes both ways. Also, Majors propensity to sit on a three point lead with 20 minutes left ensured he'd reached his zenith.

The 1990 season was a microcosm of his career.

Fulmer helped build the program, took Major's team and won with it when Majors wasn't. I put Fulmer ahead, not just for the NC but also for the consistent winning for a good part of his career.

 

[LWSVOL]

Fulmer owes everything to Majors leaving him a finely tuned sports car of a program and to Cutcliffe for driving it for him for awhile. Once Cutcliffe left and Fulmer had to drive it himself, we ended up upside down in a ditch...twice.

Did Majors make a mistake putting Fulmer in as OC instead of Cutcliffe? Seems many feel that is only reason for Fulmer success was Cut.

 

[VFLEatinFresh]

What happened in the locker room? Whatever it is, I assume that it took place after the disastrous second half.

Somebody on VolNation has explained it before, but I don't remember the details either. Seems like the players turned on Majors at halftime of that game.

 

[Backwards K]

Football: 1. Neyland 2. Fulmer 3. Dickey 4. Majors 5. Wyatt

Basketball: 1. Pearl 2. Barnes 3. Mears, .......

Baseball: 1. Vitello

Women's Sports: 1. Pat

BTW: The Vols won the National Championship 6 years after Majors imploded. Johnny had nothing to do with the National Championship.

 

[GAVol]

What happened in the locker room? Whatever it is, I assume that it took place after the disastrous second half.

Supposedly, Majors pissed everyone off to the point that there was a near mutiny at halftime.

 

[OffTackleVol]

Supposedly, Majors pissed everyone off to the point that there was a near mutiny at halftime.

I understood that happened during the LSU game in '92.

 

[Volfan1000]

1. Neyland
2. Summit
3. Fulmer
4. Majors
5. Mears

1. Summitt
2. Neyland
3.Mears
4. Majors
5. Barnes
6. Vitello
7. Pearl
8. Kiffin
9. Weekly
10. Bussard

 

[J C Higgins]

I see what you’re saying, but Fulmer did bring some of the greatest players and ambassadors to our school. Peyton Manning, Al Wilson Peerless, Raynoch, there’s a long list of greats. Fulmer definitely lost his sense of urgency after the title, but he wasn’t Larry Coker or Mark Helfrich.

Re: "......Fulmer did bring some of the greatest players...."

Fulmer was a great recruiter but, at best, a mediocre coach.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Re: "......Fulmer did bring some of the greatest players...."

Fulmer was a great recruiter but, at best, a mediocre coach.

Being a good recruiter is a big part of being a successful college football coach. Nobody GAF that a lot of people think that Kirby is a mediocre Gameday coach right now bc he is winning w/ elite talent.
Phil was 150+ and 51 or something close to that. He won a National Championship, our only one since 1967 or 51 depending on who you ask. He also won 2 SEC Titles. I think at 1 point he was 45-5 over a 4 year stretch. I’ll take mediocre again.

 

[Tman44]

I was fortunate enough to be a student on the hill,1991-94. It's a damn shame what happened to that football team in 1992. It is just as much of a shame what physically, mentally and professionally happened to Johnny Majors. Tennessee was very lucky that we had Phil there at the time to steady the ship and build upon success during a very difficult time. At the same moment, Pat Summitt was building the sport of ladies basketball and crafting it's first dynasty. One fact goes without question, those three coaches bled orange. Summitt, Majors and Fulmer had absolute devotion to the University of Tennessee. Sure, we have been blessed with some really great leaders. I'll just say I was fortunate to see few of them. It is my wish that the current students and fans are able to enjoy the same (if not more) great feelings that come from a successful Tennessee football program.

 

[SonOfGodVolforlife]

Some haters go waaaaay out of their way to 'splain why Phillip Fulmer is a nobody who happened to be in the right seat when the Vols won a national title. It was all Johnny Majors and David Cutcliffe who won it, Fulmer was simply there to collect the accolades.

Utter horse poop.

Give the man his due. You don't win a national title and two SEC titles, as well as 152 football games (at a win rate of 75%) unless you've got it going on.

Fulmer absolutely the 2nd best head football coach we've ever had.

break/break

The guy who is getting short shrift is John Barnhill.

Robert Neyland took two sabbaticals from coaching the Vols in his career. The first was only a single year, while he was deployed by the Army down to Panama. In that year he was gone, the Vols fell hard to a losing season (4-5). Fell so hard that it took Neyland two recovery years (6-2-2 followed by 6-3-1) before he was back to 10- and 11-win seasons.

But get this: Neyland's other break was for five years, during World War II. The guy who filled in for him, John Barnhill, just did this:
8-2-0
9-1-1
(didn't play football in 1943)
7-1-1
8-1-0

If I remember right, that puts John Barnhill at the pinnacle of Tennessee head football coaches, measured by winning percentage. Yep. Better even than the General.

If there's one coach in Vols' history that we under-appreciate, John Barnhill is the fella.

Go Vols!

I agree with this 100% .
We get it what fulmer did at the end of his tenure but you cannot argue the fact how dominant Tennessee was in the 90s n early 2000s bc of fulmer. You can say it was coach cutcliff or majors who built the foundation. No coach in football does it by himself give fulmer his due.

 

[tennrich1]

Wow! Some have forgotten Fulmer was a recruiter extraordinaire. His abilities to coach/keep the program on a high level may be debatable but the amount of talent he brought to the Vols is probably unparalleled.

 

[Rocky Top T]

Fulmer could not win nothing without Cutcliffe! Fact! Plus he tried to destroy Tennessee as AD!!! Not counting stabing Majors in the back! Got no time for Fulmer!

 

[Rocky Top T]

Fulmer could not win nothing without Cutcliffe! Fact! Plus he tried to destroy Tennessee as AD!!! Not counting stabing Majors in the back! Got no time for Fulmer!