Quick question. I am rusty on the baseball rules.

#1

Volnanza

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#1
I seem to remember many years ago that in baseball, a tie goes to the runner. We had so many close calls in the last couple of games that I appreciate it if someone spelled out the rule for forcing an out. The one at second looked to be a tie as did one of the ones at first base.

I also wonder why they are not using high speed, high def. cameras.
 
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#2
#2
I seem to remember many years ago that in baseball, a tie goes to the runner. We had so many close calls in the last couple of games that I appreciate it if someone spelled out the rule for forcing an out. The one at second looked to be a tie as did one of the ones at first base.

I also wonder why they are not using high speed, high def. cameras.

I'm pretty sure that the "tie goes to the runner" that everyone says is actually wrong. I believe the rule states that the runner needs to beat the throw/tag to the base.
 
#5
#5
I thought it was a general rule umps went by before they had video. I played baseball my whole life and always heard that. I was told by an ump that on first base they look for the runners foot to hit first and listen for the ball to hit the glove. Jus one ump told me that so take that how u want
 
#6
#6
The call on the field is the most important thing once it goes to review. That's why video evidence has to be indisputable to overturn that.
 
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#7
#7
I thought it was a general rule umps went by before they had video. I played baseball my whole life and always heard that. I was told by an ump that on first base they look for the runners foot to hit first and listen for the ball to hit the glove. Jus one ump told me that so take that how u want
I umpired back in the day (not at any high level), and that’s exactly how we were taught (ie watch the runners foot and listen for the ball hitting the glove). 👍🍊
 
#8
#8
The official rules say the batter runner is out if he or the bag is tagged BEFORE he reaches the bag. Therefore - if there is a tie - the runner or the base was not tagged BEFORE reaching the bag. So in effect a tie goes to the batter runner at first base. But the rules don't mention a tie.

For a base runner already on base the tie would go to the fielder on a force. The rules say the runner is out if he FAILS to reach the base before he or the base is tagged. So in effect - if there is a tie he FAILED to reach the base before being tagged. But there is also no mention of a tie.
 
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#10
#10
I seem to remember many years ago that in baseball, a tie goes to the runner. We had so many close calls in the last couple of games that I appreciate it if someone spelled out the rule for forcing an out. The one at second looked to be a tie as did one of the ones at first base.

I also wonder why they are not using high speed, high def. cameras.

I umpired for several years, not above 18 year old players. Not that is was a a rule per say (I don't think) but at tie goes to the runner. (don't think that has changed). The problem here is the habit of saying the call on the field will stand when it's not clear what took place. (such as a tie) I think this is to protect the umpire's from "being or seeming wrong" too much of the time. Even though they have to make a call, they can't say "too close to call". I saw yesterday and last night in two or three different games where a "tie" of some type went the way of the call on the field. A poor way of handling a tie. On a different note, I would, when behind the plate, try to help players anyway I could (explain a pitch location, a catching position, a pitcher's bad habit, etc.). Once in awhile (especially if things were on edge) I would call out low enough for the batter and the hitter to hear "two". When I would get a questioning comment or look, I would say "too close to call" followed by "but it sounded like a "strike" or if so "ball" loud enough that, that was my call for all to hear.
Just read the above post by "Ron Mexico". RIGHT the runner must beat the throw, but - - - - .
By the way, great article referenced by Ron.
 
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#12
#12
Here’s a pretty good write up on the topic. Basically states the runner must beat the throw or tag and there are no ties in baseball. It’s an interesting read.

Tie Goes to the Runner?
Here’s a pretty good write up on the topic. Basically states the runner must beat the throw or tag and there are no ties in baseball. It’s an interesting read.

Tie Goes to the Runner?
A "like" is not good enough for your post! The article is more than an "interesting read"..
 
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#13
#13
I thought it was a general rule umps went by before they had video. I played baseball my whole life and always heard that. I was told by an ump that on first base they look for the runners foot to hit first and listen for the ball to hit the glove. Jus one ump told me that so take that how u want
how many reviews does each team get?
 
#16
#16
Here’s a pretty good write up on the topic. Basically states the runner must beat the throw or tag and there are no ties in baseball. It’s an interesting read.

Tie Goes to the Runner?
I believe the author of that article fails to correctly interpret the three rules together. The first two rules do not contradict the third.

Here are the rules:
28758A8F-E0BE-41D8-8530-A70DAFED6BE8.jpeg

Under the first rule, a tie goes to the runner because the bag is not tagged “before” the runner touches it in the case of a tie. Thus, the runner is only out if the ball beats him.

Same analysis for the second rule.

The third rule says that the runner is safe (or, “acquires the right to an unoccupied base”) if he touches it “before he is out.” It does not say “before the ball arrives” as the author suggests. In fact, under the other two rules, it is clear that, in the case of a force play, a tie is literally “before he is out.” So, the three rules actually agree, and a tie, by rule, goes to the runner as a matter of simple logic.

Probably (if you will allow me to speculate), before high speed cameras and instant replay, umpires agreed that there was “no such thing as a tie” to discourage lazy umpiring and encourage vigilance about when the runner arrives via-a-vis the ball. This would explain the seemingly odd calls. But it does not change the fact that there is no rule stating that a base runner is out if he ties the throw to the bag.

Anyhow, that’s my take… as a practicing lawyer.
 
#17
#17
The tie always goes to the runner. It is a rule if you understand the rules. The only way someone can be out is if the ball gets there before the runner so if the ball and the runner get there at the same time the runner is safe
 
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#18
#18
Technically, it's a bad question because umpires do not consider "a tie" when it comes to calling safe or out. It is essentially outside of human perception to determine a tie. In an umpire's mind the runner either beat the throw and is safe, or he didn't beat the throw and is out. It's as simple as that. I guess we should actually say, "a tie goes to the umpire" for a judgement call.
 
#19
#19
The crazy interpretation change which I think affects some calls being overruled or not is the ball does not truly have to be caught but in the glove and then secured. As long as the ball is completely within the confines of the glove edges it is considered in the glove and then has to be secured but the timing issue begins when it is within the confines of the glove. So the old see the foot and hear the ball doesn't completely work anymore. I wish someone other than an umpire would watch the video and make a decision because the former umpires they are using are not going to keep overriding their buddies.
 
#22
#22
Since they have started this replay stuff in great detail, if it is a dead tie….they will go with whatever is called on the field.

Not written in the rules, but what I’ve observed this year.
That makes sense since it's so highly improbable to use a video capturing 30 frames per second to prove the occurrence of an actual tie.
 
#23
#23
That makes sense since it's so highly improbable to use a video capturing 30 frames per second to prove the occurrence of an actual tie.
Bingo! Why are they not using high speed cameras in these games? It is really hard to discern an image when the runners white shoes look 3 feet long in a blurry image.
 
#24
#24
Bingo! Why are they not using high speed cameras in these games? It is really hard to discern an image when the runners white shoes look 3 feet long in a blurry image.

The super high speed HD cameras are still rather expensive. To have 8-10 cameras Phantom type cameras would cost 7 figures. Try to put those into hundreds of ballparks, and it isn't worth the cost. Someday in the next decade, the prices will drift downwards

Having the umpire mess it up is always part of the passion of baseball.
 

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