War in Ukraine

#30,652
#30,652
AM64 said:
Bait and switch is pretty bad form in elections. People tend to be less than forgiving when they thought they elected Hyde and it turns out they got Jekyll. A lot of us are wishing the US had a presidential recall process.
Click to expand...
You are right. But will you also acknowledge that people get upset when the person they voted for gets regime changed by foreign countries? The very regions that heavily supported Yanukovich are the main ones didn't want anything to do with the Kiev regime after 2014.
 
#30,654
#30,654
DonjoVol said:
That was from a university here in the United States. I was making the point that even our own history textbooks here in the U.S. are obviously flawed. There's also the Southern Strategy myth these college textbooks are teaching. I can tear apart that myth in no time.

Second. I've been told college professors are nothing but a bunch of liberals. Why I should listen to them if they are a bunch of liberals? Same with our mainstream media. I don't need to listen to them and need to do my own research and come up with my own conclusions. Correct?

I'm a free and independent thinker. That's what I've been encouraged and told I should do years ago and is exactly what I have done. Or is free and independent thinking something you are against?
Click to expand...

Do you think prejudice and revisionism have a place in history? Should universities be about dogma and ideologies or about fact? Perhaps just lay out the fact and let students discuss what the facts mean rather than tell them what it means? Of course that also implies including all fact so the course isn't narrowed to a "desired" path. Maybe textbooks themselves are a big part of the problem since they can be tailored to a view and selected by professors who like that particular view. Have you ever wondered about new histories and biographies written decades and even centuries after older ones - like what has been lost and if anything new has truly been found to change history. Does reinterpretation of historic fact to today's standards rather than yesterday's standards of conduct totally skew historic evaluation? We have a huge problem with people looking at past events with our current perspective rather than what was acceptable and considered common practice at the time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols, Rasputin_Vol and Rickyvol77
#30,655
#30,655
Shadow's war: A Canadian veteran describes weeks under fire in Ukraine

"If NATO had stepped in, the war would have been done in like less than a week, but because everyone sat back and watched, well, we are seeing all those civilians dying."

He said he's equally skeptical of the West's approach going forward. What Ukraine needs, he said, are boots on the ground.
Click to expand...

After too many close calls, he said, he won't be returning to the eastern front.

"I did my time there. For now, I will do humanitarian aid. I'll just stay here in Lviv and be as useful as I can be."
Click to expand...
 
#30,656
#30,656
ButchPlz said:
That's what impeachment was supposed to be. Unfortunately the American left turned that into a farce and somewhat stigmatized it conveniently before placing a walking vegetable into office.
Click to expand...

Voters don't factor into impeachment proceedings, so they still don't have a real voice about recalling a president. I still firmly believe that there will be some miraculous events that happen immediately prior to this mid term and the next presidential elections that go in favor of the dems; and that's all that counts - the months in between are just empty fodder or passing time during which a lot of damage will have been done but passed over by the recency effect.
 
#30,657
#30,657
Rickyvol77 said:
And you said that an autocratic fascist leader who routinely abuses the freedom of his people, kills or imprisons his opponents, and invades a sovereign country to kill innocent people is worthy of a Nobel peace prize. So who’s the one really ignoring reality here?
Click to expand...
What Putin and the Russians did was prevent regime change in Syria and helped to stop the killing brought on by ISIS and the Free Syrian army. The US came in and started flooding the place with weapons that ended up in the hands of ISIS.

We are doing the same thing in Ukraine. Who knows where the hell all of those weapons are going to end up after this. These weapons dumps are going to be a problem for Europe for a while.
 
#30,658
#30,658
AM64 said:
Bait and switch is pretty bad form in elections. People tend to be less than forgiving when they thought they elected Hyde and it turns out they got Jekyll. A lot of us are wishing the US had a presidential recall process.
Click to expand...
Outside of impeachment, what are you wanting?
 
#30,659
#30,659
Rasputin_Vol said:
My comment was in response to this...
Click to expand...

History still tends to show that Islam doesn't play well with others. If Islam is in the majority, it's "my way or the highway". If Islam isn't in the majority, there are always the terrorist incidents that go along with Islamic zealousness. Islam too often doesn't seem to believe in moderation. It's not a religion as much as a fundamental way of life, and that changes everything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols
#30,660
#30,660
AM64 said:
Do you think prejudice and revisionism have a place in history? Should universities be about dogma and ideologies or about fact? Perhaps just lay out the fact and let students discuss what the facts mean rather than tell them what it means? Of course that also implies including all fact so the course isn't narrowed to a "desired" path. Maybe textbooks themselves are a big part of the problem since they can be tailored to a view and selected by professors who like that particular view. Have you ever wondered about new histories and biographies written decades and even centuries after older ones - like what has been lost and if anything new has truly been found to change history. Does reinterpretation of historic fact to today's standards rather than yesterday's standards of conduct totally skew historic evaluation? We have a huge problem with people looking at past events with our current perspective rather than what was acceptable and considered common practice at the time.
Click to expand...
I think I agree with everything you posted here. I'm just wondering how this disagrees with what @DonjoVol was talking about? I guess that first sentence is what is throwing me off a bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64
#30,661
#30,661
Rasputin_Vol said:
Outside of impeachment, what are you wanting?
Click to expand...

Recall elections. Where people say this isn't what I signed up for in large enough numbers to force a recall vote. Accountability. The ability to un-elect "representatives" who change paths ... or in a current case aren't up to the job at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols
#30,662
#30,662
AM64 said:
History still tends to show that Islam doesn't play well with others. If Islam is in the majority, it's "my way or the highway". If Islam isn't in the majority, there are always the terrorist incidents that go along with Islamic zealousness. Islam too often doesn't seem to believe in moderation. It's not a religion as much as a fundamental way of life, and that changes everything.
Click to expand...
I used to believe the worst about Islam. But in reality, Islam is no better or worse than any other religion.

But in recent times, it is very clear to me and anyone paying attention that there are Islamic radicals and terrorist groups that are funded and supported by the KSA. The KSA has been able to terrorize dozens of countries from Nigeria to The Philippines with some of their subversive and destructive actions. Remove the KSA influence and support for these radicals and mercenaries and what you will have is a far more stable Islamic world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marcusluvsvols and AM64
#30,663
#30,663
AM64 said:
Recall elections. Where people say this isn't what I signed up for in large enough numbers to force a recall vote. Accountability. The ability to un-elect "representatives" who change paths ... or in a current case aren't up to the job at all.
Click to expand...
On a national level? Let's think about that very carefully for a moment. If we do not use the popular vote to elect a president, what mechanism would you suggest to recall a president?
 
#30,664
#30,664
Rasputin_Vol said:
I think I agree with everything you posted here. I'm just wondering how this disagrees with what @DonjoVol was talking about? I guess that first sentence is what is throwing me off a bit.
Click to expand...

I tend to tag comments to a post sometimes because I agree, sometimes because I disagree, and often because the original post brings up something that is a good topic for more discussion. In this case it was really about what the perspective in teaching something like history should be. To me that's to open minds - to teach that something we may see as wrong by today's standards could have been very acceptable at the time - that facts exist but that they are only something that you can really interpret at the appropriate point in history. History and what happened is how we got here, some of it even defines where here and who we are happen to be, but we have to get off this thing about judging the past by today's standards and by someone's political/social standard. If we can't, then education isn't education rather it is indoctrination, and that's supposedly not what we stand for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TVOLS, marcusluvsvols, Tnslim1 and 1 other person
#30,665
#30,665
Rasputin_Vol said:
On a national level? Let's think about that very carefully for a moment. If we do not use the popular vote to elect a president, what mechanism would you suggest to recall a president?
Click to expand...

A national recall election would certainly be a challenge, and the fact is it's almost certainly never going to happen. We do need as a people to hold politicians accountable though. Perhaps that should have entered into the equation when we decided that senators should be elected by the people. In some ways it makes them more "representative" - on paper; in other ways it's obvious they are more free agents to do as they wish rather than represent the states.
 
#30,666
#30,666
Two men. One of them responsible for the death of tens or possibly hundreds of thousands and destruction of several countries. The other is Vladimir Putin.

 
  • Like
Reactions: EasternVol
#30,667
#30,667
volbound1700 said:
I feel like Ukraine is going to have to seize some of Russia's lands in order to get a surrender or capitulation. It sounds like Ukrainian forces are starting to push back against Russia.
Click to expand...

Possibly. It's like refuge in a conflict where one side can retreat to a safe sanctuary when they are losing. People don't get serious about a truce until they have something of their own to lose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: volbound1700 and Hunerwadel
#30,669
#30,669
Some how, don't ask me how; call it experience, call it intuition, the result is the same. I always knew Bono would wind up in the middle of this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64
#30,673
#30,673
Anybody heard anything about Russia defaulting yet? I would have figured that Russia would have defaulted by now with their economy in the toilet and the entire world standing tall against them.
 
#30,675
#30,675
  • Like
Reactions: SlipKidVol, Pepe_Silvia, Tnslim1 and 2 others
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement

Back
Top