War in Ukraine

#30,331
#30,331
EasternVol said:
I agree. Today it's way too much about winning political advantage. It looks like the While House saw the chance to make their boy and party look good, and without thinking about national security (there are no adults there to remind them) they said 'we did that!'. Then someone told them to zip it and now they're in damage control mode.
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The one good thing is that it looks like since the very beginning, The Pentagon has been coming out to calm things down. They just came out a day or two ago to quiet down the rumors about them targeting Russian generals and tried to distance themselves around that same time of having any involvement in the Maskova sinking. If course remember back when Poland was talking about delivering those Mig-29s that the Pentagon poured cold water on that, as well.
 
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#30,333
#30,333
soooooooo..... I'm fascinated. Lets play a game of "Where Is Pootin's Ass Now?"

On Monday he is supposed to show up for Victory Day Parade. Is it coincidence that his Private Yacht tried to leave Italy in a hurry? He was supposed to be going under the knife? My odds say Victory Day Parade broadcast will be a recording. Probably filmed with the footage of the practice runs they have been grabbing. Pootin is going to lip sync victory day like milli vanilli imo.
 
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#30,334
#30,334
EasternVol said:
There is that. And if we had not broken our pledge to not extend NATO eastward, and a few other things. But the really huge elephant in the room is who launched an invasion of the Ukraine this year.
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They had to do that in order to stop the attacks on the Donbas region and to prevent further expansion of NATO eastward.
 
#30,337
#30,337
Rickyvol77 said:
Ukraine’s people have the right to join NATO if they choose. It’s not Putin’s choice to dictate their freedom to choose
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The US wouldn't allow Cuba or Mexico to have a military alliance with Russia or China, so why do we not expect the Russians to not behave similarly in their region of the world?
 
#30,342
#30,342
NCFisher said:
You're conflating the question of Donbas status/disposition with the election of Janukovych. The range of status options is about half a dozen models ranging from the current Kyiv centricity to full-blown secession from Ukraine. No polling - I've linked them in prior posts - before or since 2014 has show more than a small minority favoring secession, but a continual majority favoring remaining Ukraine, even if desiring more autonomy of everyday governance and economic matters under local governance.

In fact, the counter-referendum held in Donbas in non-separatist areas of Donetsk oblast of May 11, 2014 saw 2.9 million voters of 4.3 million populace participating. To the question of "Are you for maintaining your territorial community within Ukraine and reunification with the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast?" (Dnipropetrovsk is the Ukraine oblast adjacent to western Donetsk and Luhansk and is 80% ethnic Ukrainian and 18% ethnic Russian. Reunification means dismantling the LP/DPR insurrection and remaining Ukrainian, and whether to be annexed by Dnipropetrovsk oblast)

Yes
69.1%
Against reunification and against separatism
27.2%
No, separate
3.7%

Now, according to the assertion you draw from your map there was no greater hotbed of Yanukovych support than Donetsk. Yet, 96% voted against separating from Ukraine and only 4% for separatism. There is no correlation between Yanukovych election support and desire to separate from Ukraine.

That, despite nearly a decade of Russian influence campaign to erode Ukraine sovereignty - including issuance of roughly a million Russ passports, clearly violating Minsk and Budapest - continual military incursions and armament, propping up thug LPR and DPR governments who coerce, disenfranchise, and criminalize support for Ukraine to force their migration and cement areas of control. Zelensky factually termed it an invasion of eight years by Russia.

There was no coup. In the face of massive protests against his rejection of the EU Association Agreement, cowardly Yank left his post and a governmental vacuum which the Ukraine parliament filled. He should have been able to remain in eastern Ukraine with all that support, right? Yet he reverted to Russia within a week of leaving Kyiv instead of "New Russia" as Putin likes to refer to E. Ukraine. When Putin refers to Ukraine - as a whole - as an artificial construct and that it is Russia inhabited by Russians, he makes his intent clear. This isn't about and LPR/DPR 'independence', but Russian dominion of Ukraine.

You can keep telling us what Putin really means, I take him at his word and actions.

You're fond of anecdotes; let's hear from Donetsk residents calling for Yanukovych to resign in Dec. 2013 following his failure to allow Ukraine to exit Russia's decrepit, corrupt orbit:
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Why wouldn't the very people that elected Yanukovich not be angry and disgruntled about their candidate being overthrown by a foreign country?
 
#30,343
#30,343
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm only pointing out the inconsistencies in you alls rabid condemnation of Russia. That is not whataboutism.
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Like I said the other day. It's the same thing day in and day out with this crew. It is the equivalent to watching the same Jake and The Fatman episode daily.
 
#30,349
#30,349
DonjoVol said:
NATO is nothing more than a globalist organization at this point.
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NATO in the Pacific. They need to change their name...

Global NATO Takes Shape Ahead of US-ASEAN Meet

“NATO must have a global outlook, ready to tackle global threats,” Truss said. “We need to preempt threats in the Indo-Pacific, working with allies like Japan and Australia to ensure that the Pacific is protected,” she added. “We must ensure that democracies like Taiwan are able to defend themselves.”
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#30,350
#30,350
NorthDallas40 said:
Then why are you so butthurt over other nations resupplying Ukraine Moe? 🤡
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Because all it does is prolong the war, not change the outcome. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are being used as proxies and cannon fodder by these Western elites and discouraged from reaching a diplomatic solution.
 
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