War in Ukraine

#29,204
#29,204
WBO said:
Japanese Chinese animosity goes back 4000 years. It's in their DNA. The Japanese were actually allies in WW I.

From my time in Japan, on a rural airbase on northern Honshu, the Japanese consider us to be uncouth and can't deal with our multiculturalism since theirs is a homogeneous country dominating overwhelmingly by a single ethic group. But they respect us for totally kicking their butts and then not punishing them and instead rebuilding their economy.

That being said, I was spending a summer in Misawa while flying for the reserves and went out to one of the huge bathhouses. It had the huge bathing area with a big waterfall all from naturally hot springs. (It also had exclusively male hours and exclusively female hours. Th
ere was an observation deck which was closed when women were bathing but they would let the women in when the men bathed. When they knew the American military guys were in the bathing area the deck would be packed with women.)

I digress, anyway, I was in the restaurant area after being in the baths and we were laughing, having some Orion beers. I notice an older gentleman, in his late 50's with his family. This was in the 80's so he could have served in the war, at the minimum he would have been alive then. The entire time we were there he just stared with a look of complete hatred. As we exited by his table I said in a loud voice, "wonder what this place would be like if the Russians had invaded at the end of WW 2."
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Spent a month in the south of France in the late 90’s. For the most part the people were great except Parisians I think they’re mostly assholes. But I’d come across an occasional ******* that scoffed at my obvious American background. One or twice to the bad ones I’d ask “sprechen sie deutsch” to which they always answered an indignant NO! Which I then replied in English “you’re welcome” and walked off.
 
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#29,206
#29,206
Burhead said:
I'm sorry but Russian use of WMDs would be a game changer like it or not. Leveling cities using conventional means is one thing but if Russia crosses that threshold the world would have to respond.
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Europe needs to carry that message and response. This thug is in their back yard. We just keep up what we’re doing.
 
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#29,211
#29,211
WBO said:
Japanese Chinese animosity goes back 4000 years. It's in their DNA. The Japanese were actually allies in WW I.

From my time in Japan, on a rural airbase on northern Honshu, the Japanese consider us to be uncouth and can't deal with our multiculturalism since theirs is a homogeneous country dominating overwhelmingly by a single ethic group. But they respect us for totally kicking their butts and then not punishing them and instead rebuilding their economy.

That being said, I was spending a summer in Misawa while flying for the reserves and went out to one of the huge bathhouses. It had the huge bathing area with a big waterfall all from naturally hot springs. (It also had exclusively male hours and exclusively female hours. Th
ere was an observation deck which was closed when women were bathing but they would let the women in when the men bathed. When they knew the American military guys were in the bathing area the deck would be packed with women.)

I digress, anyway, I was in the restaurant area after being in the baths and we were laughing, having some Orion beers. I notice an older gentleman, in his late 50's with his family. This was in the 80's so he could have served in the war, at the minimum he would have been alive then. The entire time we were there he just stared with a look of complete hatred. As we exited by his table I said in a loud voice, "wonder what this place would be like if the Russians had invaded at the end of WW 2."
Click to expand...

I was thinking last night about an earlier comment on Japanese atrocities in China - like the Rape of Nanking. We still have a hard time with the fact that we believe other cultures think as we do, and we are surprised and upset that they don't. The Japanese military did commit brutal acts in WW2 because they were convinced that surrender was morally wrong - didn't fit their code, so they had no respect for prisoners and saw them as weak, cowards, or both. Different ways of looking at and valuing life. The thing is the Chinese never really valued the lives of their people either - at least the peasant class. I only met two Japanese who were antagonistic toward me in the 70s; almost all would go out of their way to be helpful if you needed assistance. Interestingly enough my dad was an advisor to the Japanese Air Self-Defense Force in the late 50s; he met and liked General Genda - the same Genda known for the Pearl Harbor attack.

A book I read by Joe Stillwell was interesting about trying to work with the Chinese against the Japanese in WW2. We gave them arms, prepared them to fight with us, and the Chinese wouldn't show up. Warlords stockpiled weapons and wouldn't fight the Japanese; they also had no problem with confiscating food from their own and leaving them to starve. We would see that as cowardly; the Chinese at the time would see it as normal tradition.
 
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#29,212
#29,212
Burhead said:
I'm sorry but Russian use of WMDs would be a game changer like it or not. Leveling cities using conventional means is one thing but if Russia crosses that threshold the world would have to respond.
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Russia is losing this war (regardless of what the stooges are saying). With the weapons just beginning to flow in from the West things are just going to get worse for Putin. Our best bet may be that China isn't at all happy with the nuclear threats coming out of Russia. Perhaps Xi and his deputies have some contacts and maybe even friends deep inside the Kremlin and can convince them that this needs to end very soon. Maybe Putin just goes to bed one night and doesn't wake up.
 
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#29,213
#29,213
DonjoVol said:
When I was in Japan there were actually places, very few, that didn't allow anyone who wasn't Japanese into the establishment. This was in the late 90s, early 2000s. With that said I spent a much time off base as I possibly could. The food was great, it was a beautiful country, it was clean, and the crime rate was very low. I actually wouldn't mind going back over there to live someday.
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I really enjoyed Japan when I worked there for several months. I liked Okinawa even more, but that was before the reversion to Japan. When I went back in the mid 70s (after reversion), I enjoyed it, but it was obvious the Japanese were trying to turn Okinawa into their Hawaii - just wasn't the same as when I was stationed there just a few years earlier - not bad but not as rural and carefree.
 
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#29,214
#29,214
Hunerwadel said:
Russia is losing this war (regardless of what the stooges are saying). With the weapons just beginning to flow in from the West things are just going to get worse for Putin. Our best bet may be that China isn't at all happy with the nuclear threats coming out of Russia. Perhaps Xi and his deputies have some contacts and maybe even friends deep inside the Kremlin and can convince them that this needs to end very soon. Maybe Putin just goes to bed one night and doesn't wake up.
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That would be preferable.
 
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#29,215
#29,215
AM64 said:
I was thinking last night about an earlier comment on Japanese atrocities in China - like the Rape of Nanking. We still have a hard time with the fact that we believe other cultures think as we do, and we are surprised and upset that they don't.
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They have the Rape of Nanking on their conscience. The US has Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I think they have similar thinking as we do when it comes to war.

AM64 said:
The Japanese military did commit brutal acts in WW2 because they were convinced that surrender was morally wrong - didn't fit their code, so they had no respect for prisoners and saw them as weak, cowards, or both.
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It seems obvious that American decisionmakers share this same philosophy and that is why we often repeat the same mistakes and that we have no reverse gear or we are always in a battle to "save face" or "not appear weak" whenever we see that winning one of these conflicts is going to be difficult.
 
#29,216
#29,216
Hunerwadel said:
Russia is losing this war (regardless of what the stooges are saying). With the weapons just beginning to flow in from the West things are just going to get worse for Putin. Our best bet may be that China isn't at all happy with the nuclear threats coming out of Russia. Perhaps Xi and his deputies have some contacts and maybe even friends deep inside the Kremlin and can convince them that this needs to end very soon. Maybe Putin just goes to bed one night and doesn't wake up.
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They have the Ukrainians surrounded in Donbas and the troops in Mariupol are huddled together in a steel plant. How can you fix your mind to see that as Russia losing?
 
#29,218
#29,218
Rasputin_Vol said:
They have the Ukrainians surrounded in Donbas and the troops in Mariupol are huddled together in a steel plant. How can you fix your mind to see that as Russia losing?
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You quickly forgot that whole "cant take Kyiv so we retreat and lose all the territory we took originally just to hold onto what we took in 2014". Yeah, Russia ain't winning anything. 66 days into the 3 day war comrade.
 
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#29,220
#29,220
FLVOL_79 said:
You quickly forgot that whole "cant take Kyiv so we retreat and lose all the territory we took originally just to hold onto what we took in 2014". Yeah, Russia ain't winning anything. 66 days into the 3 day war comrade.
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Did they really try to take Kyiv or was that a diversion to have them commit resources to protect the capital and not allow them to use those resources in Donbas?
 
#29,222
#29,222
Rasputin_Vol said:
They have the Ukrainians surrounded in Donbas and the troops in Mariupol are huddled together in a steel plant. How can you fix your mind to see that as Russia losing?
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They're not making meaningful advances anywhere. They are poorly trained demoralized and fatigued. They can only hope to be replaced by soldiers who are less trained and more pathetic than they are. And Ukraine has more and better weapons on the way. Look stooge, this is the friggin' famed and feared Red Army. By all accounts they should be knocking back beers in Kyiv by now. It's gone so badly that the only option Putin has left is the threat of nuclear war. That alone should tell you something.
 
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#29,223
#29,223
Rasputin_Vol said:
They have the Ukrainians surrounded in Donbas and the troops in Mariupol are huddled together in a steel plant. How can you fix your mind to see that as Russia losing?
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They don't have anyone surrounded yet but that is what they are attempting. Remains to be seen if they can achieve that or not.

Rasputin_Vol said:
Did they really try to take Kyiv or was that a diversion to have them commit resources to protect the capital and not allow them to use those resources in Donbas?
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No they clearly wanted the capital and to take out the government. They thought this would be a quick war and that Ukraine wouldn't resist and that put a quick decapitation strike off the table. Even the most hard core of Russian sympathizers have to agree that Ukraine won the battle of Kyiv and that Russians retreated in defeat. If the move on Kyiv was a diversion it was a horrible one, the Russians got mauled and now are sending those units to fight in the east and now has allowed Ukraine to start redeploying forces from that area to the east as well.
 
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#29,224
#29,224
Rasputin_Vol said:
They have the Ukrainians surrounded in Donbas and the troops in Mariupol are huddled together in a steel plant. How can you fix your mind to see that as Russia losing?
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Define success. They aren’t going to be able to hold Kiev for any length of time or any real areas outside of the areas that already under Russian influence so what is a Russian victory exactly? That’s a heck of a lot of soldiers and material to keep controlling some of the same areas they basically already did to a certain extent. They have also created millions of new enemies inside Ukraine that previously may have been non hostile towards Russia. You give the Russian military way too much credit for some odd reason.
 
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