The DeSantis containment thread -- all things DeSantis go here

#726
#726
RockyTop85 said:
I’m aware, that’s the problem with your “just tax Disney” approach.
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Disney has it in their power To avoid it all. All the CEO has to do is issue a Short statement apologizing for involving company (with its diverse work force, some of whom have sincerely held moral views) in what is an educational issue that is none of his or his company‘s business. Then follow that up with „we trust the legislature in the state of Florida to produce legislation in keeping with the demands and values of their electorate and will make no further comment on any legislation not directly impacting the operation of our Florida facilities“
All that is keeping this issue going into special session is the prideful inability of the Disney Corporate Leadership to say they made a mistake.
 
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#727
#727
OrangeTsar said:
Disney has it in their power To avoid it all. All the CEO has to do is issue a Short statement apologizing for involving company (with its diverse work force, some of whom have sincerely held moral views) in what is an educational issue that is none of his or his company‘s business. Then follow that up with „we trust the legislature in the state of Florida to produce legislation in keeping with the demands and values of their electorate and will make no further comment on any legislation not directly impacting the operation of our Florida facilities“
All that is keeping this issue going into special session is the prideful inability of the Disney Corporate Leadership to say they made a mistake.
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Sounds like compelled speech.
 
#730
#730
VolStrom said:
About as compelled as a company is to promote alternative lifestyle over just doing what a company that panders to children and their parents should do for shareholders.
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Are you trying to show that you don’t understand the difference between contractual obligations and government compelled speech or that you don’t think one is worse than the other?
 
#731
#731
RockyTop85 said:
Are you trying to show that you don’t understand the difference between contractual obligations and government compelled speech or that you don’t think one is worse than the other?
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What contractual obligation? If any agreement made with Disney is contractual, then Disney can challenge it in court. Kind of like your "don't say gay" law.
 
#733
#733
volinbham said:
it's pretty complicated - saw where they contract for services from the two counties they straddle.

bottomline it would raise tax revenues from Disney but also raise costs - need to see some kind of breakdown to see the real economic impact.

To the extent Disney fights to maintain it you'd assume it's a better deal for them to have it than not.
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I agree with this. My opinion is neutral until I see an analysis of it. Several things at factor here.

1. Does it hurt the residents?
2. Does universal, Busch gardens, etc. get similar treatment?
3. How long was the deal supposed to be in place?

I also don't blame DeSantis wholly. The legislature voted on it.
 
#738
#738
volinbham said:
I don't agree with DeSantis' reasons for taking this action, it certainly appears to be punitive On the other hand I'm not sure an agreement of this kind made over 50 years ago is sacrosanct. To the extent Disney is getting some special tax breaks in perpetuity that others don't get should be examined.
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Yeah, but this isn’t the way to approach that debate. Disney also brings a boatload of tax dollars to Florida, so there a symbiotic relationship there. Both sides of this are acting foolishly, IMO.
 
#739
#739
utvols88 said:
I agree with this. My opinion is neutral until I see an analysis of it. Several things at factor here.

1. Does it hurt the residents?
2. Does universal, Busch gardens, etc. get similar treatment?
3. How long was the deal supposed to be in place?

I also don't blame DeSantis wholly. The legislature voted on it.
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It has a date of pre 1968 for when a self governing board was set up. so the only theme park it impacts is Disney. The way I understand it there was no sunset date but also no guarantee that it would continue forever
 
#741
#741
DC_Vol said:
Yeah, but this isn’t the way to approach that debate. Disney also brings a boatload of tax dollars to Florida, so there a symbiotic relationship there. Both sides of this are acting foolishly, IMO.
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I agree (and said) it's not the right way. Still think it's worth reviewing to see if the arrangement is in the best interests of the citizenry.
 
#742
#742
OrangeTsar said:
Not at all. They are free to say absolutely nothing. And then deal with the consequences of starting a fight without calculating the cost. Sort of like Kommrade Vladamir over in the Kremlin
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It certainly sounds like Vladimir, but not in the way you mean.
 
#743
#743
volinbham said:
it's pretty complicated - saw where they contract for services from the two counties they straddle.

bottomline it would raise tax revenues from Disney but also raise costs - need to see some kind of breakdown to see the real economic impact.

To the extent Disney fights to maintain it you'd assume it's a better deal for them to have it than not.
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Here is some information. SIAP.

Disney’s debt is about to be Central Florida taxpayers’ problem

Most critical to the counties impacted and an argument being made ITT:

Under state law, Orange County is not allowed to tax Disney extra unless it creates a new special district for Disney. However, to do this, the county would need the property owners inside of Disney (the company) to agree to take back the debt.
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#744
#744
95 Vol Alum said:
Here is some information. SIAP.

Disney’s debt is about to be Central Florida taxpayers’ problem

Most critical to the counties impacted and an argument being made ITT:
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Watch Disney get more money off this. They have the facilities and employees. They'll simply watch the local governments fail then tell them they'll bail them out for double the money. You don't become a $200 billion corporation by not being good at business. Legislators are getting their names in the paper without realizing the disaster they are creating.
 
#745
#745
RockyTop85 said:
It certainly sounds like Vladimir, but not in the way you mean.
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If a child breaks a window with a baseball, they have the choice of apologizing and maybe avoid having to pay to replace it. Or they can remain silent and maybe be have the money taken out of their allowance. Is THAT compelled speech? Disney stepped in it big time. Are they going to „man up“ (pun intended) and do the right thing, or sit stubbornly refusing to take responsibility for their mistake? Up to them; but I say, make the apology and save your shareholders billions.
 
#746
#746
acd4476 said:
Watch Disney get more money off this. They have the facilities and employees. They'll simply watch the local governments fail then tell them they'll bail them out for double the money. You don't become a $200 billion corporation by not being good at business. Legislators are getting their names in the paper without realizing the disaster they are creating.
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Everyone is missing the real leverage that the state will get here though. Everyone is focusing on utility costs. If Reddy Creek is no more, the State (and by extension the county) takes over the inspection and building permit process. That men’s EVERY TIME Disney wants to build a new ride, modify an existing one (as they are about to do to remove the „racist“ elements from Splash Mountain, or even expand the dining area at Pecos Bill‘s, they have to get county approval. Do you have any idea whatsoever that can do to Disney‘s day to day operations? Disney needs to do whatever can to pacify the Governor and Legislature. They are playing a game of Chicken they can’t win here.
 
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#747
#747
DC_Vol said:
I don’t agree with you too often, but on this I’m with you. Florida granted the status to Disney, and the government shouldn’t wield their power in a punitive fashion. Terrible look and a bad precedent. Let the people punish Disney if they so choose.

Now if I sat on the board at Disney, I’d be telling the management to focus on the Disney experience and selling more overpriced stuff to their visitors. And leave the politics to the politicians.
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„Let the People punish Disney“
Ok, you do Know That the Florida Legislature is the legally constituted representative body of the people right (that whole „government BY the people“ bit)?
So one could quite validly argue that the special session of the legislature revoking Disney’s self governing status is actually the people punishing Disney as you recommend. If the people disagree, they can vote out the representatives next election. Isn’t that the basic theory of a representative democracy after all?
 
#748
#748
whodeycin85 said:
Is he actually trying to cancel the existing deal or just is it expiring and he is pushing to not renew it?
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It is was a deal made with no definitive time frame specified. S such, it remains in effect until the state chooses to withdraw the exemption or until the Park decides it no longer wishes to excercise such rights. Just like a month to month rental contract I would argue
 
#749
#749
OrangeTsar said:
It has a date of pre 1968 for when a self governing board was set up. so the only theme park it impacts is Disney. The way I understand it there was no sunset date but also no guarantee that it would continue forever
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As the other parks do not have it (maybe they don't want it) then I don't mind taking it away on that portion of the principle. I'd like to see the analysis still and if it stays, open it up to the other parks, if they wish to have it.
 
#750
#750
OrangeTsar said:
Everyone is missing the real leverage that the state will get here though. Everyone is focusing on utility costs. If Reddy Creek is no more, the State (and by extension the county) takes over the inspection and building permit process. That men’s EVERY TIME Disney wants to build a new ride, modify an existing one (as they are about to do to remove the „racist“ elements from Splash Mountain, or even expand the dining area at Pecos Bill‘s, they have to get county approval. Do you have any idea whatsoever that can do to Disney‘s day to day operations? Disney needs to do whatever can to pacify the Governor and Legislature. They are playing a game of Chicken they can’t win here.
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You really don't think that billion dollar corporation isnt going to figure out who they want to serve on the local government board that will ensure Disney gets what they want when they want it. I'd argue its going to be easier for Disney to manipulate a local government than a states. Add in the fact this is nothing more than a political stunt. This isn't going to happen. This will get signed into law but will never take effect.
 
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