War in Ukraine

#22,676
#22,676
Rasputin_Vol said:
Neither am I. But this conflict was totally avoidable. You it seems believe, however that this is because Russia started this for no reason. I, on the other hand, believe that NATO and The US did not respect their security concerns, they intended to use Ukraine as a staging ground for future conflict and they intended to eventually regime change Russia with the intent of being able to fleece Russia in the same manner that they did when Yeltsin was there and in the same manner that they fleece Ukraine right now.

This entire Ukraine project by The West has diddly squat to do with the sovereignty or the will of the average Ukrainian citizen... or the people of Europe or the US, for that matter. This is simply Western oligarchs and politically connected thieves wanting to maintain their money making ventures in that part of the world.
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I see it a lot like the football examples with expansion.

Ukraine came to the West wanting to join these organizations and these organizations wanted to say yes just like Oklahoma and Texas did with Big12. Then the irate 8 (as they called them) started suing and got very aggressive. Russia is doing the same thing with Ukraine. Doesn't want them to leave the Russian Empire/CIS and join another conference.
 
#22,678
#22,678
KB5252 said:
But they aren't because THE LITERAL REST OF THE COUNTRY WANTED CHANGE! The only regions happy were the pro Russian areas. When a friendly president to the west was installed the breakaway areas were unhappy. The rest of the country was happy..... You know how I know this? Because they continued to elect presidents friendlier to the west.
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So half the country (allegedly half, I'm not sure that was truly representative of most Ukrainians) can overthrow an elected leader that the other half of the country overwhelmingly supported? And you expect that portion of the country to stand for that? Really?

KB5252 said:
When you bring war and seige to a city there are no civilian areas. The city becomes the literal battlefield. There are plenty of examples of cease-fire being called and Russians shelling stopping those from fleeing. And fighters aren't fleeing as they did in Syria, they are fighting to protect themselves from a foreign invader. It's what we would and have done in our countries history.
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Again, you are just mistaken about the Russians firing on civilians. That provides zero incentive for civilians to leave (or deserters to leave) if they are afraid of getting fired on. The only ones that gain anything from the corridors being closed are the Azov/Ukrainian forces because it allows them to have that propaganda war victory.
 
#22,679
#22,679
Rasputin_Vol said:
They were bombing and killing in the Donbas for 8 years. You can condemn Ukraine about that.
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That's not Russia, they were fighting a breakaway state in armed revolt.

During this I have no doubt they shelled civilians and I certainly condemn that. But that's a far cry from staging the invasion of a sovereign nation.
 
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#22,680
#22,680
Rasputin_Vol said:
So half the country (allegedly half, I'm not sure that was truly representative of most Ukrainians) can overthrow an elected leader that the other half of the country overwhelmingly supported? And you expect that portion of the country to stand for that? Really?


Again, you are just mistaken about the Russians firing on civilians. That provides zero incentive for civilians to leave (or deserters to leave) if they are afraid of getting fired on. The only ones that gain anything from the corridors being closed are the Azov/Ukrainian forces because it allows them to have that propaganda war victory.
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It's much more than half, the election results bear this out and have been posted here before.
 
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#22,681
#22,681
apevol said:
Ah, so someone should've stepped in when Chechnya was trying to break off at the turn of the century. To soothe tensions between them and the Russians.
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If some 3rd party wanted to join in the fun, why not? That is in the Caucasus area, that wouldn't be an American issue or concern anyway.
 
#22,683
#22,683
Rasputin_Vol said:
Neither am I. But this conflict was totally avoidable. You it seems believe, however that this is because Russia started this for no reason. I, on the other hand, believe that NATO and The US did not respect their security concerns, they intended to use Ukraine as a staging ground for future conflict and they intended to eventually regime change Russia with the intent of being able to fleece Russia in the same manner that they did when Yeltsin was there and in the same manner that they fleece Ukraine right now.

This entire Ukraine project by The West has diddly squat to do with the sovereignty or the will of the average Ukrainian citizen... or the people of Europe or the US, for that matter. This is simply Western oligarchs and politically connected thieves wanting to maintain their money making ventures in that part of the world.
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All conflict is avoidable if you roll over like a cuck, comrade.

Stop victim blaming, you look ridiculous even attempting to sell it as this all being Ukraine's fault.
 
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#22,684
#22,684
KB5252 said:
That's not Russia, they were fighting a breakaway state in armed revolt.

During this I have no doubt they shelled civilians and I certainly condemn that. But that's a far cry from staging the invasion of a sovereign nation.
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The people over there were Russian... and you have this going on on their border, so of course they are going to act. If we had American expats in Mexico getting attacked, I would expect the US (or any other country) to do the very same thing.
 
#22,688
#22,688
hog88 said:
I believe that is the most likely reason for the invasion but Putin can’t come out and say “I’m stealing my neighbors gas”.
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Then why did he wait until the 2014 coup to start annexing? The events in Kiev are the drivers to all of this. You all seem to want to ignore that.
 
#22,692
#22,692
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is a more complex issue, but the US (or entities in the US) have a significant amount of control over the EU... mainly working in tandem with the central bank.
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its the eastern europeans who are always hung out to dry while we argue with russia about their fates. Historically they're always the ones to help when some european force starts beating back against Russia. And Russia whines, and they bitch and they moan and complain about the west, while the people theyve conquered and opressed help the west against them. This ***** been going on before we were even a country.
 
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#22,693
#22,693
KB5252 said:
You referred to them as sub human, chimps in fact. When one does this they forfeit the argument and expose themselves.You can have whatever political beliefs you want, but when you view people or a group as less than human you have shown yourself to have the feeble mind.
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False, I referred to the bat-wielding man in the photo, there was no "them." Get your accusation straight instead of making things up, as your feeble mind insults clearly applies to you. And as usual, guys like you just want to detour the real issue of armed insurrectionists at the Jan-6 event into an unknown wilderness so the true matter is lost into trivial tit-for-tat banter. Continue in that direction as folks like you usually do, I'm not playing that game with you. Now, proceed.
 
#22,694
#22,694
WoodsmanVol said:
The Viking Shaman? That clown? I don't think even Trump-clown would've stooped that low. More than likely, he was talking with co-traitor GOP bigots in the capitol itself, as well as Roger Stone, Mike Flynn, Bannon, Proud Boys, other armed militant anarchist leaders, and other close associates that shared his anti-Constitution bigots. Now, that's what I think, which is what you asked, but we won't know until and unless we get call logs during those critical hours and minutes during of the attempted coup.
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LOL!!!
 
#22,695
#22,695
Rasputin_Vol said:
Then why did he wait until the 2014 coup to start annexing? The events in Kiev are the drivers to all of this. You all seem to want to ignore that.
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No, I believe you are assigning more altruism to Putin's actions than they deserve. Personally I believe Putin is a gangster at his core with no other motive than increasing his wealth and power. He annexed Crimea in 2014 to secure his warm water port and knew nobody would GAS. He invaded now to secure the gas fields because he sees us following the same idiotic energy path Europe took. If we continue down the Obama/Biden energy trail Putin's gang will be the largest NG supplier in the world.
 
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#22,697
#22,697
McDad said:
One would be forced to trust Putin, Russian war leaders, or the media to believe that was the case.

I don't see how anybody can.

There is propaganda about this war from all sides flying all around the internet.
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It’s everywhere .. I wonder what those 13 dead soldiers from snake island that said FU are having for dinner tonight . I hope they got one of those tshirts people were printing up .
 
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#22,698
#22,698
Rasputin_Vol said:
That is a more complex issue, but the US (or entities in the US) have a significant amount of control over the EU... mainly working in tandem with the central bank.
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This is Ivandjiiski talking using you as his dim witted puppet. What’s funny is he actually has stolen money from hedge funds just like your hated capitalist investors and western banks lol
 
#22,699
#22,699
Rasputin_Vol said:
The people over there were Russian... and you have this going on on their border, so of course they are going to act. If we had American expats in Mexico getting attacked, I would expect the US (or any other country) to do the very same thing.
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Invade Mexico? They literally fire at our border agents consistently. We have Americans get massacred there every year...... You can't build an argument on that weak foundation.
 
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#22,700
#22,700
same goes for Iraq. Some people call it the "invasion of Iraq" because no weapons of mass destruction were found, but this guy was a hide out for terrorists attacking the USA and NOBODY was sad to see him go. It was a US lead COALITION BTW, not the US.
 
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