War in Ukraine

[Rickyvol77]

And you are supporting a puppet govt that is supported by the US that has been killing thousands over an 8 year period.

It’s not a puppet government. As much as you want it to be to justify your boys invasion.

So again since you have such a hard time answering the questions directly.

1) should Ukraine as a sovereign country be allowed the freedom and self determination to join NATO if they so choose no matter what Russia wants. Yes or no?
2) how can you say your earlier statement about being opposed to “attacking someone's life and liberties through legislation or corporatist/fascist edicts” when that is 100% what Putin has done and continues to do to his own people and other countries? Are you for freedom and self determination? Or do you still root for Putin to beat the “west”

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Stop with this hose pucky! They are Ukrainians living in Ukraine that decided to revolt, would you be calling people living in south Texas that revolted Mexicans?

I believe everyone has the god given right to revolution but once you pull that trigger you better win.

That "revolt" was an American financed and supported regime change scheme. It wasn't in any ways a grassroots movement. The Obama Administration, fresh off of the successful overthrow of Libya and attempted overthrow in Syria, played the exact same game on Russia's border.

If you are still cannot see how corrupt that entire situation went down then, and then see the exact same players now in the Biden Administration going even further, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[NorthDallas40]

It was a tiny hole in the wall restaurant a little bit up the road from the intersection where Halls high school is located.

Ah. Nope sorry doesn’t ring a bell.

Oh wait I remember a sandwich shop there across from the Weigels? I want to say it had a green awning?

 

[Rickyvol77]

Putin is Russia's problem to deal to deal with, neither you or me or Joe Biden should have a say in how he runs Russia. Russia is not my concern, nor do they have the same founding documents and principles we have here in America. But Putin does serve a purpose in that he is going against these same devils that we are dealing with over here.

You have said you are rooting for him. Why would you carry water and support someone who doesn’t believe in personal freedoms and self determination and uses violence against innocent people?

 

[luthervol]

Putin is Russia's problem to deal to deal with, neither you or me or Joe Biden should have a say in how he runs Russia. Russia is not my concern, nor do they have the same founding documents and principles we have here in America. But Putin does serve a purpose in that he is going against these same devils that we are dealing with over here.

But should he burn in hell with the other bureaucrats who are infringing on what you perceive to be your liberties?
Or is hell primarily just a destination for those who have done you wrong?

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Ah. Nope sorry doesn’t ring a bell.

Oh wait I remember a sandwich shop there across from the Weigels? I want to say it had a green awning?

Yeah that was it.

 

[Gandalf]

That is a well written post. Almost poetic.

America cannot pour from an empty cup. To be the shining city for others, we need to be a shining city for ourselves. I cannot say we do that.

Because we have forgotten that it is not truly our light that shines. The Light that still remains we have been busy hiding under a basket.

America is the moon, not the sun, and so it is when we perfectly reflect the light of the son, we shine brightest.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You're attempting to make an insurrection by Russian supported separatists and the fight against them by the legitimate government, a slaughter by the Uke government of citizens. This is simply a lie and you've allowed yourself to be the corruption you say you're against. I've shown you plainly that even years into the conflict, repeated MAJORITY polling of Donbas citizens supported remaining Ukrainian, even in the regions of Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts controlled by the separatists. That was mirrored in the May 11, 2014 counter referendum of the Donbas that was "breaking news" to you. I've put up three polls in addition to the counter referendum. I have at least three more.

Did you not think people weren't taking the pulse of Donbas citizens the past eight years and you can just say any shite whatsoever and it be accepted?

Disagreeing is one thing; purposeful dishonesty is quite another and a trait I despise. At this point, you're simply a liar with an agenda.

So your argument mainly rests on polling data in a corrupt place like Ukraine? Are you going to give the same amount of credence to polling data from Russia?

Or hell, what about the credibility of American polling data for that matter?

 

[luthervol]

That "revolt" was an American financed and supported regime change scheme. It wasn't in any ways a grassroots movement. The Obama Administration, fresh off of the successful overthrow of Libya and attempted overthrow in Syria, played the exact same game on Russia's border.

If you are still cannot see how corrupt that entire situation went down then, and then see the exact same players now in the Biden Administration going even further, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Which government to you envision to be more puppet like, the one Russia is attempting to overthrow or the one Russia will replace it with if successful?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Further:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights unveiled the data on Donbas war casualties from 14 April 2014 to 30 June 2021.

“The total number of casualties related to the conflict in Ukraine is 42,500-44,500 people,” the Office said in response to an information inquiry from Radio Liberty.

The casualties are categorised as follows:

• 13,200–13,400 people killed (at least 3,901 civilians, about 4,200 Ukrainian servicepersons, and about 5,800 Russian-backed militants)
• 29,600–33,600 people wounded (7,000–9,000 civilians, 9,800–10,800 members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, and 12,800–13,800 occupiers)

In general, over the years of the war, civilians have accounted for 25-26% of the killed and wounded.

The UN also notes that this ratio has changed significantly over the years: from 33-34% in 2014 to 4-5% in 2019-2021.

As a reminder, the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights reported 42,000-44,000 casualties in Donbas for the period from 14 April 2014 to 10 February 2020.

Bohdan Marusyak
UN Releases Data on Donbas War Casualties
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Explain yourself.

What is there to explain?

 

[luthervol]

So your argument mainly rests on polling data in a corrupt place like Ukraine? Are you going to give the same amount of credence to polling data from Russia?

Or hell, what about the credibility of American polling data for that matter?

I think the Ukrainian response to Russia's invasion tells the whole story.
We no longer need polls, the will of the Ukrainian people is obvious.

Much to Putin's shock and dismay.

 

[hog88]

That "revolt" was an American financed and supported regime change scheme. It wasn't in any ways a grassroots movement. The Obama Administration, fresh off of the successful overthrow of Libya and attempted overthrow in Syria, played the exact same game on Russia's border.

If you are still cannot see how corrupt that entire situation went down then, and then see the exact same players now in the Biden Administration going even further, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Wait, I thought we were talking about the Donbos area of Ukraine revolting against the new pro-western government?

 

[apevol]

That "revolt" was an American financed and supported regime change scheme. It wasn't in any ways a grassroots movement. The Obama Administration, fresh off of the successful overthrow of Libya and attempted overthrow in Syria, played the exact same game on Russia's border.

If you are still cannot see how corrupt that entire situation went down then, and then see the exact same players now in the Biden Administration going even further, then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Grassroots or cia meddling, to act like the will of the ukrainian people wasn't involved and necessary for it to happen is dishonest.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s not a puppet government. As much as you want it to be to justify your boys invasion.

So again since you have such a hard time answering the questions directly.

1) should Ukraine as a sovereign country be allowed the freedom and self determination to join NATO if they so choose no matter what Russia wants. Yes or no?
2) how can you say your earlier statement about being opposed to “attacking someone's life and liberties through legislation or corporatist/fascist edicts” when that is 100% what Putin has done and continues to do to his own people and other countries? Are you for freedom and self determination? Or do you still root for Putin to beat the “west”

1. In an ideal world, yes, they should have that sovereignty. In an ideal world... Would we allow Cuba or Mexico to join a military alliance with China or Russia?
2. That is the people of Russia's fight to wage if they are genuinely dissatisfied with Putin. My concern is what is going on here in America. Nothing in Ukraine is of benefit or consequence to me or any other average American. We don't need to send weapons, billions of dollars or boots on the ground over there to resolve that. That is a European issue. Let them handle their own mess. We've got our own problems to deal with.

 

[volgr]

Laughable premise. Absolutely absurd.

But let's give the author the benefit of the doubt and say he's correct: That the invasion to date was a series of feints and false invasions to support the Russian takeover of Mariupol and some Southern areas.

To this I say, keep it up Putin! You're getting your balls smashed in a vice, and you're running out of combat troops, missiles and useable vehicles / armor. Time is on Ukraine's side now, and it's only a matter of time until Putin falls out a window.

You do realize it is Ukraine, not Russia who is running low on fuel, vehicles and supplies, yes? While having tens of thousands of troops now stuck in Donbas and being encircled. But hey, keep reading the Kiev Independent and Nexta, they will whisper the lies you want to hear.

 

[evillawyer]

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

Unfortunately, this appears to be true. It's not just coming from one story or one source.

 

[Rickyvol77]

1. In an ideal world, yes, they should have that sovereignty. In an ideal world... Would we allow Cuba or Mexico to join a military alliance with China or Russia?
2. That is the people of Russia's fight to wage if they are genuinely dissatisfied with Putin. My concern is what is going on here in America. Nothing in Ukraine is of benefit or consequence to me or any other average American. We don't need to send weapons, billions of dollars or boots on the ground over there to resolve that. That is a European issue. Let them handle their own mess. We've got our own problems to deal with.

1) I never figured someone as “principaled” for freedom as you would try to weasel word you’re way out of taking an actual stand. You know you are 100% in the wrong. The Ukrainian government is sovereign and elected. Period. They are their own country and have the right to determine what they want to do without invasion and innocent people being captured and killed for it by a fascist dictator. And we aren’t invading Cuba or Mexico so try harder with your made up fantasy scenarios. The fact is Putin is wrong and doesn’t believe in freedom or self determination. And uses his army and police and government to restrict freedom and you said “I support him to beat the West” Hypocrite at best, mentally ill bot at worst

2) YOU are the one who said you should always be against fascist dictators who attack life and Liberty and freedoms. But you have stated time and again that you support Putin. So again hypocritical liar

 

[Septic]

The Adams quote doesn't mention Christianity.

No, it doesn't but it'd be a tough ask to squeeze a penny between what was said and what was implied.

I think John Adams wasn't much different from politicians of today, he told his audience what they wanted to hear whether he personally believed it or not.

 

[Rickyvol77]

But should he burn in hell with the other bureaucrats who are infringing on what you perceive to be your liberties?
Or is hell primarily just a destination for those who have done you wrong?

He won’t say it because it destroys his credibility

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You have said you are rooting for him. Why would you carry water and support someone who doesn’t believe in personal freedoms and self determination and uses violence against innocent people?

Putin is far from perfect, but I'm also aware that he isn't the person that the media and the White House portrays him as, either. Hell, the US had to work with Stalin to fight Germany. Do you think that was a marriage based on liberties and freedoms? Or do you think it was a pragmatic arrangement made where we weighed out who the most pressing danger was?

We live in a complex world. Sometimes, you have to make deals with people you may not fully agree with. We worked with Stalin, Saddam and The Mujahedeen for some alleged greater good.

But you come after me for wanting to see this Biden Administration and the networks and systems around them fail and get us out of this quagmire halfway around the world?

 

[Rickyvol77]

So your argument mainly rests on polling data in a corrupt place like Ukraine? Are you going to give the same amount of credence to polling data from Russia?

Or hell, what about the credibility of American polling data for that matter?

Do you believe the Ukrainian government was elected by the Ukraine people? Is it legitimate and sovereign? Does Putin deserve a space in hell too?

 

[AM64]

someone forgot to turn the transponder off?

View attachment 443322

I saw that last night. I'd bet it was intentional and that there was at least a wingman without the transponder transmitting with that F-15. It was orbiting between an orbiting tanker and the Ukrainian border. The real question is what are all the tankers over eastern Europe refueling. B-52s have been active for the last couple of days, too. Two of those are over western Europe - looking like they are returning to bases in England.

 

[volgr]

I thought one of the reasons to support Putin is that he was against pedophilia and such. Isn't that dude a registered sex offender?

He's giving a well reasoned explanation of Russia's military strategy, not teaching Kindergarten in a San Francisco Elemenatry school.

 

[KB5252]

Putin is Russia's problem to deal to deal with, neither you or me or Joe Biden should have a say in how he runs Russia. Russia is not my concern, nor do they have the same founding documents and principles we have here in America. But Putin does serve a purpose in that he is going against these same devils that we are dealing with over here.

He is the same devil we are dealing with over here...... Don't kid yourself. That's where your premise on this affair falls apart. You believe the enemy of my enemy is my friend. No offense but that's pinnacle of naive.