War in Ukraine

#21,776
#21,776
Rickyvol77 said:
At this point it’s clear that Ras doesn’t actually believe in freedom and he is either psychotic and delusional or his a Russian bot. There’s no other explanation for his kool aid
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I don't believe in freedom? Really? Me and you have gone back and forth about the abuses of our Constitutional rights with regards to law enforcement and our government right here domestically. We dona pizz poor job of living up to those standards right here at home. Then when it comes to international affairs, we exhibit even worse behavior. We overthrow or severely sanction countries that don't play ball with us and if the country is really uncooperative, we will invade them. That goes against everything we were warned about from George Washington and John Quincy Adams.

If anything, you have supported sociopathic and authoritarian practices by both govt and the private sector.
 
#21,782
#21,782
Rasputin_Vol said:
There wouldn't have been any referendums had it not been for the 2014 US lead coup. Stop it. Get some help. This is basic 8 year old subject matter.
....What legitimizes the invasions are the 2014 US lead coup and the 8 years of shelling in the Donbas
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I don't think I need help with this.

Yanukovych promised both greater ties/trade with the EU, and a Russian reset. If he'd signed in Nov. 2013 the EU Association Agreement passed by the Ukraine parliament after 5 years of negotiations, he'd have remained in office; that was the locus of the protests. The "U.S. lead coup" did put not 10s and 100s of thousands of feet on the street in protest, daily, for weeks and months; economy and non-liberalization of the country did. His own corruption, Russian deference, locking up opponent Tymoshenko, and crackdown on protests didn't help him.

So, you have that backwards; there'd have been no protests had Yanukovych delivered on the EU agreement, and no presidential vacuum if Yanukovych's regime hadn't then abandoned their posts in the face of the protests. Without that vacuum there'd have been no separatist power grab, and no illegitimate referendum held by them in their illegitimately taken and forcibly held areas of Donbas. Which the legitimate government of Ukraine has fought to reclaim from the separatists as Donbas citizens wanted, that you characterize as "shelling for eight years" and justification of the invasion.

Your opinion is certainly 8-year old subject matter
 
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#21,783
#21,783
Hunerwadel said:
If you would please explain it to me. I was glad to hear him say it. I'm only disappointed that he may be walking it back. I haven't been near a tv or the internet since yesterday morning.

Edit: Gandalf only please. Im not going back and forth with 8 or 10 posters. It gets redundant
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Because Biden is the head of state of another nuclear armed nation, who also happens to be the real power of NATO. When the POTUS says "this man cannot remain in power" in a major speech, it becomes the actual policy of the USofA and everyone in it to effect regime change in Russia to remove Putin as head of state. That is very very close to a declaration of war. In fact, one of the rationales that Bush gave for going into Iraq is that Saddam wanted to kill a FORMER president. Consider if Xi made this very statement about Biden, we would be considering it as a prelude to war. The intel services and military take this stuff as gospel from their CIC and then start making plans/steps to actualize it.

It was completely irresponsible to the point of stupidity. Yes, we all might WANT this to be the case, the USA could even be trying in multiple unspoken ways to make this happen but you do not say "cannot remain in power", without there being consequences.

Again, he didnt say, this man SHOULD not be in power in our modern age, nor even that the Russian people should kick him out of power. Instead, he signaled that it is now US policy to remove Putin via any means necessary. Again, this isn't some comedian on late-night television, some bloviating Senator Snort, or even the leader of some tiny backwater like Greenland or a spineless country like Canada - it was the United States, who effects regime change for breakfast and sh**s new "democracies" by lunchtime.

Hopes that helps shed light on things.
 
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#21,785
#21,785
NCFisher said:
I don't think I need help with this.

Yanukovych promised both greater ties/trade with the EU, and a Russian reset. If he'd signed in Nov. 2013 the EU Association Agreement passed by the Ukraine parliament after 5 years of negotiations, he'd have remained in office; that was the locus of the protests. The "U.S. lead coup" did put not 10s and 100s of thousands of feet on the street in protest, daily, for weeks and months; economy and non-liberalization of the country did. His own corruption, Russian deference, locking up opponent Tymoshenko, and crackdown on protests didn't help him.

So, you have that backwards; there'd have been no protests had Yanukovych delivered on the EU agreement, and no presidential vacuum if Yanukovych's regime hadn't then abandoned their posts in the face of the protests. Without that vacuum there'd have been no separatist power grab, and no illegitimate referendum held by them in their illegitimately taken and forcibly held areas of Donbas. Which the legitimate government of Ukraine has fought to reclaim from the separatists as Donbas citizens wanted, that you characterize as "shelling for eight years" and justification of the invasion.

Your opinion is certainly 8-year old subject matter
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And along with that agreement with the EU would have come IMF loans. Just another way of trying to siphon more out of Ukraine. But again, don't take my word for it. Victoria Nuland talked about it in December 2013. 2 months before the coup.

 
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#21,786
#21,786
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In the event of a draft, our agency would partner with <a href="https://twitter.com/fema?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@fema</a> to provide opportunities to conscientious objectors to ensure our nation keeps moving forward. Learn more about Alternative Service at <a href="https://t.co/v2MBOkduVe">https://t.co/v2MBOkduVe</a> <a href="https://t.co/tjDJlCdoKn">pic.twitter.com/tjDJlCdoKn</a></p>&mdash; Selective Service (@SSS_gov) <a href="">March 23, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
#21,787
#21,787
NCFisher said:
I don't think I need help with this.

Yanukovych promised both greater ties/trade with the EU, and a Russian reset. If he'd signed in Nov. 2013 the EU Association Agreement passed by the Ukraine parliament after 5 years of negotiations, he'd have remained in office; that was the locus of the protests. The "U.S. lead coup" did put not 10s and 100s of thousands of feet on the street in protest, daily, for weeks and months; economy and non-liberalization of the country did. His own corruption, Russian deference, locking up opponent Tymoshenko, and crackdown on protests didn't help him.

So, you have that backwards; there'd have been no protests had Yanukovych delivered on the EU agreement, and no presidential vacuum if Yanukovych's regime hadn't then abandoned their posts in the face of the protests. Without that vacuum there'd have been no separatist power grab, and no illegitimate referendum held by them in their illegitimately taken and forcibly held areas of Donbas. Which the legitimate government of Ukraine has fought to reclaim from the separatists as Donbas citizens wanted, that you characterize as "shelling for eight years" and justification of the invasion.

Your opinion is certainly 8-year old subject matter
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Also, why are we so heavily invested in what was an internal matter in Ukraine? That justifies the US to pick sides and send in arms and support over a silly as deal between the Ukraine and the EU? How is that in America's strategic interest?
 
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#21,788
#21,788
Rasputin_Vol said:
You know what, don't take my word for anything. Just listen to this women's testimony. Warning: she's going to be dropping a few "F" bombs. LOL...

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There's proof that Ukrainian forces have been staging artillery and troops in residential areas and even next to schools. Of course the ultracorporatists of VN won't accept it because it's not from there corporate media outlets.
 
#21,789
#21,789
midnight orange said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In the event of a draft, our agency would partner with <a href="https://twitter.com/fema?ref_src=twsrc^tfw">@fema</a> to provide opportunities to conscientious objectors to ensure our nation keeps moving forward. Learn more about Alternative Service at <a href="https://t.co/v2MBOkduVe">https://t.co/v2MBOkduVe</a> <a href="https://t.co/tjDJlCdoKn">pic.twitter.com/tjDJlCdoKn</a></p>&mdash; Selective Service (@SSS_gov) <a href="">March 23, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Wow...
 
#21,790
#21,790
Rasputin_Vol said:
And along with that agreement with the EU would have come IMF loans. Just another way of trying to siphon more out of Ukraine. But again, don't take my word for it. Victor Nuland talked about it in December 2013. 2 months before the coup.

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John McCain even went on news outlets shortly after this and even stated how Ukraine needed IMF loans. Guess him and Nuland needed to take care of their international banking cartel friends.
 
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#21,793
#21,793
Rasputin_Vol said:
And along with that agreement with the EU would have come IMF loans. Just another way of trying to siphon more out of Ukraine. But again, don't take my word for it. Victor Nuland talked about it in December 2013. 2 months before the coup.

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I'm aware of the loans, loans Ukraine needed to modernize the country. Yanukovych said they needed many times more than the IMF loan amount specified, and was certainly doing his siphoning part.

Regardless, this is what the Ukrainian people expected of that government and genesis of the Maidan protests. Repeating "Nuland...McCain...U.S. coup" doesn't change that.
Frankly it's sounding alot like the American left who insisted a thimbleful of Russian media space turned Hillary voters into Trump supporters.
 
#21,796
#21,796
Oryx has now visually confirmed the loss of 2000 Russian vehicles and other pieces of (heavy) military equipment.

Of note, during the entire Soviet-Afghan war (10 years), USSR lost 147 tanks

During the current invasion of Ukraine (1 month), Russia has lost between 318-580 tanks


rccuhi24o4q81.png
 
#21,797
#21,797
DonjoVol said:
There's proof that Ukrainian forces have been staging artillery and troops in residential areas and even next to schools. Of course the ultracorporatists of VN won't accept it because it's not from there corporate media outlets.
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So the "proof" is that of the old woman who is being prompted by the questions? Not saying she isn't telling the truth, but who knows at this point. She could have just been flown in from Moscow for the shoot. No pictures of any of these tanks or fighters?
 
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#21,798
#21,798
volkyries said:
So the "proof" is that of the old woman who is being prompted by the questions? Not saying she isn't telling the truth, but who knows at this point. She could have just been flown in from Moscow for the shoot. No pictures of any of these tanks or fighters?
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Only Donjo and RAS know where to get the real news....their level of delusion is astounding
 
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#21,799
#21,799
DonjoVol said:
There's proof that Ukrainian forces have been staging artillery and troops in residential areas and even next to schools. Of course the ultracorporatists of VN won't accept it because it's not from there corporate media outlets.
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Hell, in that very video it was talking about Ukrainians hiding in a 9 story building in Mariupol.

Plus, there is a news story done by either ABC or PBS from last week that showed the Ukrainians using an elementary school as a base in preparation for an Odessa invasion.

These stories are all over the place if the sheep wanted to look for them.
 
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