War in Ukraine

#21,503
#21,503
luthervol said:
Still didn't answer.
Do you believe Ukraine should be allowed self determination?

Your inability to easily answer speaks volumes.
Give it some more thought and carefully craft a response that leaves you some wiggle room and integrity.
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My answer remains. If you dont like it, no one cares.
 
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#21,505
#21,505
landscapingvol said:
You need professional help if you think those issues with incompetency have anything in common with the Russian government’s history both current and past. Hillary Clinton isn’t the US government but Putin is THE Russian government
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Issues with incompetency?

My position is that the US government is and has been for a while largely bringing evil into the world. Do you think we have free and fair elections here in the US? Do you think we operate under anything but a uniparty backed by an incestuous batch of oligarchs in unelected government roles? I've seen the beast firsthand.

Just because the evil isn't done in the same brute-force, in-your-face fashion that Putin does it in (even though so often it is), that doesn't make it OK to support unquestioningly.

Again, you say I need "professional help", yet you've done nothing to prove you can coherently argue a thing.

To sum up your positions, as you have shared openly in this thread: "the US shouldn't be involved in Ukraine, but it actually should, but shouldn't be involved in other countries, but should fight terrorists everywhere, and I don't watch CNN, but I do repeat ad nauseum exactly what they say, and Biden is a buffoon, but he is capable of making wise decisions on arming countries abroad."
 
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#21,506
#21,506
NorthDallas40 said:
Me either on reading it again I’m working on my mower and have only partial attention span. But we have much bigger fish to fry we have to extinguish Nazis in Ukraine.

As you pointed out we actually agree. Just limit the size of that big ole barrel you throw everyone across the aisle into mkay?
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Honestly, I wasn't trying to cast a wide net. Just using the same phrasing as the post I was replying to.
 
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#21,507
#21,507
MontyPython said:
"...Exit defense minister who fought crony oligarch arms dealers, enter guy who knew how to “get along.”

As a result, Kamil Galeev tweets that “Shoygu [...] pandered to old military establishment [and] stopped arguing with army suppliers about the equipment cost and quality.”

The cost of the equipment, whatever. Defense contractors will bilk. It’s what they all do. But the quality of the equipment is a different matter. During peacetime, no one cared. The myth of the Russian Bear was enough to strike fear in the hearts of all potential adversaries. But now that they’re locked in a war with an enemy willing to punch back, all that corruption is coming home to roost. Breaking Defense’s Kyiv correspondent, speaking to Ukrainian intelligence sources (which because of shared history, supposedly retain close contact with many of their Russian counterparts), reinforces this point.

Those who have watched the evolution—or rather the deterioration—of Russia’s military and the defense-industrial base that supports it are pointing out that the poor performance of Moscow’s forces has been a process unfolding for years now.​
​
Today “Russia has no more Kalibr missiles left in strategic reserve,” said a Ukrainian defense enterprise director familiar with the program, “but that is not the end of their troubles. The guidance system, the seeker head and other critical modules [in the missile’s front end] contain about 60% imported electronic components. None of these will be available after the long list of sanctions being imposed on Russia now, so it is hard to see where any new missiles would ever come from.” [...]​
​
The Kalibr is not the only program in trouble. One Ukrainian intelligence officer tells Breaking Defense that there are “numerous shortages of [Russian] weapon systems. The famous KBM plant in Tula and other factories controlled by longtime Putin allies the Rothenberg brothers are unable to physically fulfil orders for infantry weapons and ammunition.​
​
“Weapons that are officially on the books and should be available for delivery to active-duty units are missing and the next production runs will be complete only in three to four months,” the officer said. Even that estimate assumes that the raw material inputs have not been pilfered as well and are still available—if not, the time frame could be considerably longer.​
​
The end result? Equipment that breaks down at its most basic level. Check out these two threads (one and two) on how tires are failing on Russian vehicles. When I was in Cuba a few years back, I was able to buy cigars from a guy who worked at the official state factory making them. Everyone pilfered a certain amount, which they would then sell on the black market. That’s what’s clearly happening here: the Rothenbergs and other arms manufacturers pilfer; the steel-, iron-, and component-manufacturers pilfer; the plant managers pilfer; the employees pilfer; the unit commanders pilfer; the supply officers pilfer; the soldiers pilfer. It’s a wonderful grift. Everyone benefits! Well, except when war is called. Suddenly, all that equipment that was supposedly in the field turns out to have been an illusion, long sold off for Italian villas and bottles of vodka. That’s likely why we haven’t seen much of a Russian Air Force in action. I bet they can’t even get their birds in the air.

The poor 18-year-old conscripts dragged off to a war they didn’t ask for get f’ed as a result. But it’s hard to feel sorry for anyone else."
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Supposedly after the Soviet Union breakup there was a MiG in the US that had to be quarantined until weapons and ammunition were removed - seems it was imported armed to everybody's surprise. Guys with lots of money were buying a few - I remember a video of an NBC news guy who had his own. When the money came in, some Russian pilot would just go down to the flight line, find a plane with fuel, and fly it off. The articles below don't discuss that event - just that there are private MiG owners ... some even MiG-29 owners.

Pilots Call It Overreaction : FAA Clips Wings of U.S. Owners of MIG Jets

Here's Who Bought Paul Allen's Pristine MiG-29 Fulcrum Fighter
 
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#21,508
#21,508
NCFisher said:
Why don't you guys @Rasputin_Vol @volgr @DonjoVol produce evidence that Donbas residents wanted to secede from Ukraine? And explain why you continue to push a Nazi line, and why Russia may invade sovereign countries with strawman security concerns but Ukraine is to be demilitarized and have no security?
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The 2014 referendum vote is one piece of evidence. The amount of Russian passports accepted by Donbas citizens is another piece. The fact that they took part in Minsk I and II ceasefire agreements with the clear understanding of everyone involved that there wanted autonomy... or at the very least wanted nothing to do with the govt of Kiev.

I really can't believe you are asking this 8 years later, but oh well.

NCFisher said:
I've provided my rationale, in polls - even in separatist held areas of Donbas - that a majority of Donbas citizens wish to remain Ukrainian citizens. That even were Azov actual, Hitler-resurrecting Nazis (and they aren't), they are a force of 900 in a UAF military of 460,000 led by a Jew. And Russia has never been in, nor will be in danger from a Ukrainian attack whether remaining in Russian orbit, or Westernizing, or even joining NATO. Nor are they in danger of attack from NATO unless attacking a NATO member. And I've msged you on those posts, inviting challenge which you ignore.

Where's the proof, the basis, for your rationale?
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NATO (The US) moving closer to Russia, but especially moving towards Ukraine would be no different than China or Russia joining a military alliance with Mexico or Cuba. You know this, however. You want to pretend that NATO and the US are just innocent, peaceful little angels that wouldn't harm a fly.
 
#21,511
#21,511
BreatheUT said:
Has anyone asked today why is Russia still lead negotiators in an Iran Nuclear deal? This almost seems to be a logical question unless you are folding your head through your ass.

Nonetheless something doesn't pass the sniff test with this WH tough talk.
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The US has no leverage anymore. We shot our wad with these scattered and ridiculous sanctions, expecting Russia to fall to their knees and the international community line up behind us in full support. None of that s^^t happened. So now, the US is in a position of being a caretaker and not the one calling the shots on the global stage.
 
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#21,515
#21,515
BreatheUT said:
Interesting. I'm not sure what to make of this yet.
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India isn't currently acting any smarter than the biden administration. Hope India does well, but they are picking the wrong friends. Some of it may be because of great terms offered by the Russians, but I'd bet a lot is still due to Europeans and their colonialism - reminders of stuff like that don't die easily, and the Russians have made real use of it all over the world.
 
#21,518
#21,518
NCFisher said:
Why don't you guys @Rasputin_Vol @volgr @DonjoVol produce evidence that Donbas residents wanted to secede from Ukraine? And explain why you continue to push a Nazi line, and why Russia may invade sovereign countries with strawman security concerns but Ukraine is to be demilitarized and have no security?

I've provided my rationale, in polls - even in separatist held areas of Donbas - that a majority of Donbas citizens wish to remain Ukrainian citizens. That even were Azov actual, Hitler-resurrecting Nazis (and they aren't), they are a force of 900 in a UAF military of 460,000 led by a Jew. And Russia has never been in, nor will be in danger from a Ukrainian attack whether remaining in Russian orbit, or Westernizing, or even joining NATO. Nor are they in danger of attack from NATO unless attacking a NATO member. And I've msged you on those posts, inviting challenge which you ignore.

Where's the proof, the basis, for your rationale?
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Vlad said so.
 
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#21,521
#21,521
Rasputin_Vol said:
The US has no leverage anymore. We shot our wad with these scattered and ridiculous sanctions, expecting Russia to fall to their knees and the international community line up behind us in full support. None of that s^^t happened. So now, the US is in a position of being a caretaker and not the one calling the shots on the global stage.
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For the intellectually honest and capable on the board, it's clear we are leading from behind and this administration has lost respect around the world. Any moron can talk a good game about stronger relations, etc but the actions we are seeing from nations paint a different picture. This is a direct result of the current administration leadership, or lack thereof.
 
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#21,522
#21,522
allvol123 said:
Somebody breaks in my house and threatens my family, justified to do whatever I want to them.

Also, how has Ukraine committed more war crimes? Since Russia never declared war, every act they commit on Ukrainian soil is a crime.
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can you commit an atrocity when you're fighting nazis? I thought that is their excuse and while I may scoff at it, I have listened to teen age kids in this country threaten much worse against people who they define as nazis.
 
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