War in Ukraine

#19,002
#19,002
red butler said:
Let’s say China starts pumping money into Mexico extremist groups leading to a revolution. The Chinese ambassador is taped directing who the next Mexican president is going to be before there is even a vote to remove the last one. Violence erupts when someone starts shooting from behind protesters, killing police and protesters indiscriminately. After the coup, several violent “ultra nationalists” are given high level government appointments. The children of several high level Chinese officials are given token board seats of Mexican oil companies, paying undeserved tens of millions. The VP of China brags about threatening to cut off aid to Mexico if they continue investigating corruption.

Then China and Mexico start making statements like they’re going to join a Warsaw Pact type alliance. Massive amount of military equipment start flooding into Mexico while tens of thousands American sympathizers are killed along the border. In the near future DoD sees a scenario where Chinese fleets are docked in Mexican ports threatening use of strategic seaways.

Certainly we would try diplomacy, then try regime change- but if everything failed, we’d invade. Especially if China elected an incompetent leader. There’s no way we wouldn’t invoke the Monroe Doctrine.
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Mexico has already done more to damage the US than Ukraine ever dreamed of doing to Russia. How many Americans have died due to illegal, extremely dangerous drugs like meth, heroin, and fentanyl pouring across the border from Mexico on a daily basis? How many have died from associated from violence with drug cartels on a daily basis that dominate many Mexican states that border the U.S.? Violence from illegal immigrants? Stop making excuses, you sound ridiculous.
 
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#19,005
#19,005
volgr said:
Sadly, most of our society lives in this weird delusional world our media and politicians create. America has been turned into a sort of Fun House and when you try and show people they are in the Fun House, they lash out.
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Or when you show a delusional person that they they aren’t super intelligent and the voices in their head are simply that, voices in their head. It can be a very eye opening experience but sadly for most psychosis is untreatable
 
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#19,007
#19,007
LouderVol said:
1. What was Russia willing to give up in their good faith negotiations?
2. Russia wasnt one of the negotiating parties. They were supposed to be the third party mediator. At least that is what they claimed during all the Minsk talks.
3. Going back to 2, Give up all your land or else we have Russia invade your capital, isnt a good faith negotiation for an separatist nation. It clearly points to Russia, not the people of Donbas, having an agenda.
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Russia would be giving up on the war they are currently winning.
 
#19,021
#19,021
red butler said:
I agree that nationalism is important. The Azov BNs go way beyond nationalism. They’re like Trumpers and ANTIFA on crack.

You seem to hang a lot of importance on Azov being supported by Judaism. In fact, nazis hated many ethnic groups. Poles, Romas, and gypsies were all persecuted. Do you think that this form of persecution is ok because the Jews are on board?
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'Trumpers' are America first nationalism for the proposition of preserving a constitutional republic; a handful of extremists that parasitically attach to 'the right' are marginalized even by that nationalism. Antifa is quasi-Communist anarcho movement - whose motivation is the dissolution of this republic and Western society - that are absorbed into and welcomed by American Marxists in blackface who similarly seek the dissolution of the country; there is no radical margin or nationalism but radicalism in entirety. They are equivalent to the Russia backed separatists. Quite a difference.

No; which is why I don't ask you or @Rasputin_Vol or @volgr if the Holodomor was okay. The fact is, a sovereign country is being invaded by the very people who visited the Holomodor upon them. I don't care what manner they utilize; they've every right to hate Russia and to fight for their country, and to Westernize if they want and move from decades of being forced to live in their shadow. I "hang the importance" of Jewish involvement in that struggle whether members of the tiny 900 member Azov battalion or the 460K UAF, to illustrate simply that Putin is not fighting Nazis in Ukraine as is being asserted on this board or outside, and by Russophiles or useful tools of Russia. It is propaganda.
 
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#19,024
#19,024
NCFisher said:
I'll play that semantic game; morality is the basis of legality. This is an illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.
I'll wait for the circular logic you apply next.
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I know you'll play the semantic game to try and come to your preconceived conclusion. This isnt a hard concept to grasp.
 
#19,025
#19,025
red butler said:
It happened.
Ukrainian rightists burn alive 39 at Odessa union building

Burning Ukraine's Protesters Alive

The only video I could find is not available in my country. Pretty convenient.
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Perhaps it did or didn't; I saw that late last night but have not determined if it substantiated or propaganda, as the "Ukranian Nazis Crucify and Burn Alive Russian Soldier!" You did see that PeoplesWorld is a socialist mouthpiece, right?

For the sake of argument, let's assume it happened. We and the EU have the benefit of 1st World and well-armed perches from which to decide what is acceptable conduct of war. The Holomodor descendant Ukrainians do not. Atrocity is part of war and does not define the morality of those defending against aggression, as there'd be no 'atrocity' unless being attacked.

If this country were under land invasion by the CCP, I wouldn't give a second thought that 'ultranationalists' or even white supremacists were alongside me killing them. And neither would you.
 
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