War in Ukraine

#4,278
#4,278
tvolsfan said:
Literally the only way to stop Russia from invading Ukraine is World War III. They are going to do it no matter what. I genuinely think you may be the only one who still doesn't get that.

If we were discussing Poland, you would have a point. But we aren't, and you don't.
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Good Lord you don’t have any points to make and haven’t made a single coherent argument for the existence of NATO. That is the point of this entire discussion, now you are pivoting to Poland. But you are correct, the US shouldn’t send thousands of US soldiers to die in Ukraine because that is who would bear the burden not the useless other members of NATO.
 
#4,279
#4,279
Grand Vol said:
Here's the thing... NATO nor us is going to do anything more than lodge formal complaints if the Russians really are occupying the "rebel" areas of Ukraine. Why?

A. Putin knows we have a full potato as President and won't do anything other than complain (he knew this from 2009-2017 as well)

B. Putin knows good and well West Europe depends on the gas flow to survive the winter and our chief full potato's environmental stance won't allow additional drilling or exploitation of the resources we could have to help with that.

C. NATO is in no position to actually project force in Ukraine since our full potato in chief has our military in a scramble over being diversified and is rooting out "possible domestic terrorists."

D. Putin knows sanctions won't do a damn bit of good against Russia since they've already been under sanctions before and many, if not most other nations could care less about the Donbass or any other area of Ukraine. (see Iran)

E. China is remaining neutral at best and, at worst, tacitly supporting it which gives the UN Security Council zero legs

F. Putin is probably one of the craftiest world politicians and master geopolitical chess player (whether you like him or not, one can admit that) and he will not do something without knowing what he's getting into. Hence, if he thinks he can invade Ukraine... or occupy certain areas and get away with it, he will. That die was cast a long time ago.

G. The majority of our own country could give a hootie damn about Ukraine (no offense to any Ukrainians reading this) because they have lost faith in our military and the political powers that be to actually fight and win in a conflict. (see Afghanistan)

H. Putin knows our own political landscape is so fractured we couldn't agree on a response to the threat, hence, he had free reign to do what he wants.

And there you have it.
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Heh. The best laid plans of mice and men.

If Russia invades and attempts to occupy, look for 20,000 Russians returning to their motherland in body bags over the next 3 years.
 
#4,281
#4,281
GroverCleveland said:
I believe at the time Germany re-militarized the Rhineland, France had roughly 90 divisions, although most of those were made up of reservists. The German high command was terrified the French would respond, backed by Great Britain, and it's possible, if not likely, the Nazi government would have collapsed as the German population would still have the deprivations of WW1 fresh on their minds and want to avoid it if at all possible. But the Allies stood around with their thumbs stuck up their rear-ends and did nothing for three more years.

This is a European problem, not an American one. I believe Germany, as the leader, is asking for trouble by not leading the other countries to stand up. We will all rue these days and wring our hands with cries of "if only ..., if only ..." if Putin is allowed to get away with this. Remember, he has already taken Crimea at little to no cost.
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Germany was not afraid of the French military. That simply is not true, they had little respect for it and fantasized over revenge. They did partially respect the British military
 
#4,282
#4,282
I don't buy that NATO is surrounding me ******** for one moment. Tons of European nations can claim that. Hell, San Marino, Vatican City, and Monaco sit entirely inside a NATO nation. Andorra is sandwiched between two of them. Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, etc. are all surrounded by NATO but you don't see any of them bitching.

Too bad that I am not in our diplomatic core and can't repeat this message to Putin. His logic makes 0 sense.

If I was President, I would simply tell Putin to get the hell out of Ukraine within 48 hours and off the border or we will fire nuclear tipped ICBMs at Moscow and St. Petersburg. That will get him thinking twice and out of Ukraine and solve this problem.

BTW, we have a MISSLE DEFENSE SHIELD Putin that can shoot down your Nukes.
 
#4,283
#4,283
volbound1700 said:
I don't buy that NATO is surrounding me ******** for one moment. Tons of European nations can claim that. Hell, San Marino, Vatican City, and Monaco sit entirely inside a NATO nation. Andorra is sandwiched between two of them. Austria, Switzerland, Sweden, etc. are all surrounded by NATO but you don't see any of them bitching.

Too bad that I am not in our diplomatic core and can't repeat this message to Putin. His logic makes 0 sense.

If I was President, I would simply tell Putin to get the hell out of Ukraine within 48 hours and off the border or we will fire nuclear tipped ICBMs at Moscow and St. Petersburg. That will get him thinking twice and out of Ukraine and solve this problem.

BTW, we have a MISSLE DEFENSE SHIELD Putin that can shoot down your Nukes.
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Thank God you are not POTUS.
 
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#4,284
#4,284
volbound1700 said:
If I was President, I would simply tell Putin to get the hell out of Ukraine within 48 hours and off the border or we will fire nuclear tipped ICBMs at Moscow and St. Petersburg. That will get him thinking twice and out of Ukraine and solve this problem.
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Thanks be to God that you're not president.
 
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#4,285
#4,285
Speaking of Star Wars, ie SDI, we sure could use it now. Our land based ABM capability as stands now might have a few dozen interceptors and that is it, and I would bet the success rate is les than 20% hit.
 
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#4,287
#4,287
Orangeburst said:
Speaking of Star Wars, ie SDI, we sure could use it now. Our land based ABM capability as stands now might have a few dozen interceptors and that is it, and I would bet the success rate is les than 20% hit.
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Are you naïve enough to think we stopped developing it based on a treaty 10 years ago?
 
#4,288
#4,288
volbound1700 said:
It would stop the war in its tracks right now. It takes hardline responses to stop hard men. Problem is that most people today are too weak to see that.
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No, it wouldn't. Putin would not believe it as it does not align with our interests vs risking a retaliatory nuclear strike.

You know there are military options that are not lobbing ICMB's at Moscow, right?
 
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#4,290
#4,290
volbound1700 said:
It would stop the war in its tracks right now. It takes hardline responses to stop hard men. Problem is that most people today are too weak to see that.
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Wait….you think launching a nuke at Russia ends a war?

The minute their radars pick up the ICBM they are launching a counter strike on us.

You end this war by staying out of it. This is a European situation and they need to fix this themselves. He takes Ukraine then he takes Ukraine.
 
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#4,294
#4,294
PKT_VOL said:
No, it wouldn't. Putin would not believe it as it does not align with our interests vs risking a retaliatory nuclear strike.

You know there are military options that are not lobbing ICMB's at Moscow, right?
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There isn't a good option for us besides that. Do you think we are going to send ground troops? That would be a disaster for us. The area of Nuclear Warfare is an area (along with Naval Warfare) where we have a HUGE advantage over Russia.

Land Wars or even Air Wars in the area would not be helpful to us. Putin is not going to stop and China will soon join the game as well. We need to cut it out very early.

Threatening a Nuclear War would bring Russia and the rest of the World back to the negotiation table.
 
#4,296
#4,296
When Iran and the radical Islamists say the same thing about Israel, it should get the attention of everyone.
 
#4,298
#4,298
NEO said:
Wait….you think launching a nuke at Russia ends a war?

The minute their radars pick up the ICBM they are launching a counter strike on us.

You end this war by staying out of it. This is a European situation and they need to fix this themselves. He takes Ukraine then he takes Ukraine.
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I think Putin and Russia would take us very serious. I would escalate up the Nuclear defense and offensive capabilities and go to full mobilization in hopes that he comes to his senses and backs down.
 
#4,299
#4,299
PKT_VOL said:
No, it wouldn't. Putin would not believe it as it does not align with our interests vs risking a retaliatory nuclear strike.

You know there are military options that are not lobbing ICMB's at Moscow, right?
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I just realized it's been a while since you graced up with your presence.
 
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