War in Ukraine

#4,227
#4,227


Won't be surprised before too long the Bosnian Serbs don't declare independence for the Republika Srpska. Milorad Dodik is slowly moving to that direction.
 
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#4,232
#4,232
landscapingvol said:
Remind me again what NATO is doing to prevent further escalation besides cock riding the US?
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NATO presence is what prevents further escalation. It's what has insulated the Baltics/Poland/etc. from the threats Ukraine is currently facing. If you don't see that after Putin whined about losing the Soviet Republics, you can't be helped.
 
#4,233
#4,233
tvolsfan said:
If Putin thought he could take the Baltics without going to war with NATO, he would.
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NATO wouldn’t stop him, if anyone even tried it would be the US and some help from the British. What exactly do you think NATO possess without the US? Very little of actual military importance that isn’t related to nuclear deterrent
 
#4,234
#4,234
landscapingvol said:
Remind me again what NATO is doing to prevent further escalation besides cock riding the US?
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Always been the problem with NATO.

I think the best argument one could make was from an intelligence perspective. Then, again, that cuts both ways (hard to share intelligence with a lot of countries without sources and methods falling into the hands of the enemy).
 
#4,236
#4,236
tvolsfan said:
NATO presence is what prevents further escalation. It's what has insulated the Baltics/Poland/etc. from the threats Ukraine is currently facing. If you don't see that after Putin whined about losing the Soviet Republics, you can't be helped.
Click to expand...

He is clearly afraid of France’s stern warnings and Germany’s shipments of berets
 
#4,238
#4,238
landscapingvol said:
NATO wouldn’t stop him, if anyone even tried it would be the US and some help from the British. What exactly do you think NATO possess without the US? Very little of actual military importance that isn’t related to nuclear deterrent
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I'm not sure why you're acting like it would be NATO without the US.
 
#4,243
#4,243
I think we will roll over and let Russia have Ukraine but it won't stop there. Russia will be back at it in 3-5 years and this time it will be the Baltics or Poland which will lead us into World War 3. This gives me Germany/Czechoslovakia 1938-type vibes.
 
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#4,245
#4,245
Hunerwadel said:
Pacifism is fine unless you're the only one practicing it. It's a certainty that you will soon get punched in the mouth.
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Pacifism isn’t sticking your head in the sand but it also isn’t doesn’t mean solving every conflict that more local, completely capable nations should be involved in who aren’t or are very minimally at this point
 
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#4,246
#4,246
Hunerwadel said:
Pacifism is fine unless you're the only one practicing it. If you are it's a certainty that you will soon get punched in the mouth.
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I agree with this but I also think if this becomes bigger than just piece of Ukraine our European "friends" need to carry the vast majority of the load.
 
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#4,247
#4,247
hog88 said:
I agree with this but I also think if this becomes bigger than just piece of Ukraine our European "friends" need to carry the vast majority of the load.
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They need to start building up Heart of Iron 4 style. In the late 1930s, UK and France started to finally rearm after Germany had been doing it since 1933 but it was a little too late.
 
#4,248
#4,248
tvolsfan said:
In Ukraine? Nothing but sanctions. You may have missed the part about Ukraine not being in NATO.
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No I haven’t but again you are welcome to meet the Russians in the front lines and the entire premise of NATO for the 490th time is to prevent Russian aggression not just build a theoretical non-existent wall around only its member states. If this and the 3-4 other examples since 2000 isn’t an example of Russian aggression, I don’t know what is. And, where is NATO, specifically Germany and France? Missing in action as usual, looking to the US to save them once again
 
#4,249
#4,249
landscapingvol said:
No I haven’t but again you are welcome to meet the Russians in the front lines and the entire premise of NATO for the 490th time is to prevent Russian aggression not just build a theoretical non-existent wall around only its member states. If this and the 3-4 other examples since 2000 isn’t an example of Russian aggression, I don’t know what is. And, where is NATO, specifically Germany and France? Missing in action as usual, looking to the US to save them once again
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NATO is a military alliance. Countries that aren't part of the alliance shouldn't expect NATO to defend them with military support. The examples you are discussing are all countries that are not part of said alliance.

I trust you can understand the difference Ukraine and NATO members.

On second thought, maybe you can't.
 
#4,250
#4,250
Well, it's been 80+ years since a major rumble. This Pax Americana is historically a pretty long time between conflicts among whomever the Great Powers of a particular time frame happen to be. Pax Britannica lasted 99 years. Pax Romana lasted roughly 200 years ending a little less than 1800 years ago.
 
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