Coronavirus (No politics)

[BowlBrother85]

No they aren't. A simple Google search brings up a bunch. They're only "hard to find" if your source and the limits of your information are politicians, Fauci, and the MSM.

Here's one I found in about 5 seconds.

Lasting immunity found after recovery from COVID-19
ut and
The CDC's official line is that we haven't had enough time to draw conclusions about natural immunity.... yet they push vaccinations that have existed less than half as long declaring them "safe and effective"?

That link contains good information to immune system memory, but it doesn't discourage receiving COVID vaccination.

 

[sjt18]

Although I'm already fully vaccinated myself, I'm open to reading professional health care opinions which oppose COVID vaccination. The fact is, such opinions are hard to find. If you can provide a link to anything, I would be interested in reading it and give it a look.

One of the key authors of this study has clarified that "waning" levels of antibodies does not indicate a decline in protection. Once in the marrow the mechanisms for immune response go dormant and require deeper testing to detect.

Ultimately, no study, media report, politician declaration, "expert" opinion, or Pharma promotion trumps the real world results. Covid has been present in MO for at least 20 months. Here is the data on reinfections:

Health Metrics - Breakthrough Cases | COVID-19 Outbreak | Health & Senior Services

The vaccines have been available at most for the last 9 months. Here's the data on breakthrough infections.

Health Metrics - Reinfections | COVID-19 Outbreak | Health & Senior Services


So immunity derived from having and recovering from Covid has lasted much longer and produced FAR less new infections. If you tool around this site you'll notice that they INTENTIONALLY try to portray the vaccines in a good light and downplay natural immunity. It was only because our elected officials FORCED them to include some honesty that these "public health professionals" finally relented.

Even then they do things like switch "terms" when discussing the facts. They do NOT put reinfections and breakthroughs on the same page... on purpose. Then look at the way the info is presented on the breakthrough page. It says 2.36% of fully vaxed have been infected and right below that 85% of infections have been among the unvaxed. That is EXTREMELY misleading. More than half of those unvaxed infections occurred BEFORE the vaccines were available. The unwary might even think that an unvaxed person is 40 times more likely to catch Covid which isn't true either.

The graphs present a more accurate picture. Breakthrough infections have climbed to about 30% of all new cases. MO has about 50% vaccinations. The % of new infections among the vaxed has grown over the last 7 months from around 12% to 30%... and continues to grow in spite of reaching the resistance level to the vaccine. Only people who are forced under threat are getting the vaccine now.

In another stroke of CDC dishonesty... those who are in the process of getting the vaccine are counted among the unvaxed. They should be separated from both.

 

[sjt18]

That link contains good information to immune system memory, but it doesn't discourage receiving COVID vaccination.

True. But it COMPLETELY destroys any argument that ends with forcing the vaccine on those who have recovered.

According to the suggestions of this study and one from Israel and the actual population results I posted later, a previously infected person has about a 1% chance of becoming infected. At BEST, the vaccine reduces that risk by about .4%. It should be COMPLETELY up to the individual if they want to accept the risks associated with the vaccines to move their protection from 99% to 99.4%. They are NOT a danger to others.

Also... you should consider this. There is evidence that the vaccines interfere with natural immunity rather than supporting it.

SARS–CoV–2 Spike Impairs DNA Damage Repair and Inhibits V(D)J Recombination In Vitro

Here's the kind of risks that a person has a RIGHT to decide they want to avoid by refusing the vaccine:

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10....Rqx0q61VPmfUvmzv4aHRAPAoWkFEUA8tJDvszWNB0rA7k

 

[Vol464]

FWIW - the way Mizzou lost was simply outstanding. Listening to the dimwit announcing made it even more so. It was classic doofusness. So glad Army drove a stake right through their hearts on that last drive. Put the passing QB in, run simple patterns and take it right down the field with a minute to play with a couple QB draws. Drink has some really hysterical Beamer in him. Sign him up for a long stay, Mizzou. While you are at it extend Zo's contract.

How is it possible that 49 customers and staff on a RC cruise ship caught the COVID, which had a 100% vaccination rate and were 100% negative antigen tested prior to embarking. McGill - what say you?

It’s science.

 

[MAD]

The Morning: The risks to older adults

excerpt:

But I do want to raise one major point of caution. Covid in recent months has continued to present a meaningful amount of risk to older people, despite vaccination. It’s too soon to know whether Omicron will change the situation, but the safest assumption — absent more data — is that Covid will remain dangerous for the elderly.

“There is good reason for older adults to continue to try to avoid becoming infected, because the risk for hospitalization in that age group is still significant,” Dr. Shelli Farhadian of Yale University told me.

 

[sjt18]

The Morning: The risks to older adults

excerpt:

But I do want to raise one major point of caution. Covid in recent months has continued to present a meaningful amount of risk to older people, despite vaccination. It’s too soon to know whether Omicron will change the situation, but the safest assumption — absent more data — is that Covid will remain dangerous for the elderly.

“There is good reason for older adults to continue to try to avoid becoming infected, because the risk for hospitalization in that age group is still significant,” Dr. Shelli Farhadian of Yale University told me.

Agree. Also the risk/benefit decision shifts with age. Vaccines for the young which may damage organs is makes much less sense than vaccines for the elderly who are far more likely to have severe cases or death.

But again... this isn't about the "science". It is about political manipulation. Even if you believe that Fauci and politicians have nothing but the best interest of the people in mind... they DO NOT have a right to manipulate the information they give us and steer us like cattle.

 

[sjt18]

@BowlBrother85 Sincerely not trying to badger you but this shows why I mistrust the "experts" and keep trying to get past them to the raw facts. These top guys KNOW that natural acquired immunity is effective and lasting. And they're suppressing that information and promoting forced vaccinations. That's a violation of medical ethics... first rule "do no harm."

Fauci: Omicron Is Less Severe in S. Africa Because of Natural Immunity from Delta

NIH Director Clings to the Tired COVID Narrative as He Prepares to Exit Stage Left

WHO Says COVID Vaccine Boosters Will Likely Prolong the Pandemic

 

[MAD]

Agree. Also the risk/benefit decision shifts with age. Vaccines for the young which may damage organs is makes much less sense than vaccines for the elderly who are far more likely to have severe cases or death.

But again... this isn't about the "science". It is about political manipulation. Even if you believe that Fauci and politicians have nothing but the best interest of the people in mind... they DO NOT have a right to manipulate the information they give us and steer us like cattle.

I read news from all over the world as far as Covid is concern, not just here. Fauci and our politicians have no influence on what happens there. So your political manipulation theory is not valid.

 

[sjt18]

Can you provide a link to information which explains that rationale? And like it or not, COVID with its variants, is relevant subject matter to whether or not football will even be played.

There are studies showing severe side effects for the vaccines already. You can find them with a simple google search. Myocarditis is one of several conditions being reported as side effects of the vaccines. Even CDC acknowledged that over 6000 Americans had died from Covid vaccines in July. That number is now up to over 10,000... and remember we've had the vaccines less than a year. Only enough time to know the acute problems they cause. There are VERY LIKELY long term problems that have not manifested themselves yet. CDC link is below... and they have a vested interest in minimizing and hiding this kind of risks from the public.

You may say that pales in comparison to the risks of dying from Covid. And you could be right. But it is not YOUR right nor Biden's nor anyone else's to make that choice for any individual. They should give us the facts and then let people make their own call with no bullying, mandates, or discrimination.

These vaccines were NOT vetted. It takes time to vet a vaccine. At the very best they used computer models and data from mRNA vaccines used in animals to project effectiveness and side effects. They missed effectiveness by MILES.

COVID-19 Vaccination

 

[BowlBrother85]

Agree. Also the risk/benefit decision shifts with age. Vaccines for the young which may damage organs is makes much less sense than vaccines for the elderly who are far more likely to have severe cases or death.

But again... this isn't about the "science". It is about political manipulation. Even if you believe that Fauci and politicians have nothing but the best interest of the people in mind... they DO NOT have a right to manipulate the information they give us and steer us like cattle.

For most people, the decision to receive a COVID vaccination is about the science, and it involves the consideration of the consensus professional opinion of health care providers. You are choosing to focus on Dr. Fauci and politicians, but the fact is, that the American Hospital Association (AHA), American Medical Association (AMA), and the American Nurses Association (ANA) released a joint public service announcement in July which stressed that COVID-19 vaccines are a safe and effective way to protect yourself, your family, and your community from the virus and its variants. These not-for-profit health care provider organizations remain strong advocates for taking a COVID vaccination.

Not everyone who makes the decision to get themselves vaccinated is a victim of "political manipulation". Some of us listened to our doctors and consumed as much available information as possible while weighing this decision.

AHA, AMA and ANA Release New Public Service Announcement Urging the American Public to Get Vaccinated to Defeat Covid-19 | AHA

 

[sjt18]

I read news from all over the world as far as Covid is concern, not just here. Fauci and our politicians have no influence on what happens there. So your political manipulation theory is not valid.

LOL... yeah. It is. They're manipulating information by suppressing things like the efficacy of naturally acquired immunity and the side effects of the vaccines while exaggerating the "dangers". Good grief... Fauci et al opposed and even got the use of HCQ banned last year even KNOWING that it had been used in the US and around the world to help treat Covid. Then quietly without media fare... a report came out the week after the election acknowledging its usefulness against Covid. That wasn't manipulation of information for political purposes?

Remember last year when Fauci scoffed at reports that the virus came from gain of function research in a Wuhan lab that he had a relationship with?

When the data doesn't agree with the narrative, it is buried. A meta-data study of masks revealed two things. Mask mandates increase the use of masks and mask compliance.... and mask mandates DID NOT have an impact on Covid infection rates, spikes, hospitalizations, or deaths. You would think that they would say... "OK. We believed it would help but it is now time to move on to other things."

Just click on the links I provided to Missouri Covid data above. Would you guess based on what you're getting from the "narrative" that those who have recovered from Covid are half or less as likely to be infected from Covid as the fully vaccinated? Shouldn't that be "great news" celebrated by these "leaders" and our politicians? A lot of people have effective immunity and we DON'T have to spend billions more on vaccines with unknown side effects. Is that what YOU are hearing?

 

[Orangeslice13]

For most people, the decision to receive the COVID vaccination is about the science, and it involves the consideration of the consensus professional opinion of health care providers. You are choosing to focus on Dr. Fauci and politicians, but the fact is, that the American Hospital Association (AHA), American Medical Association (AMA), and the American Nurses Association (ANA) released a joint public service announcement in July which stressed that COVID-19 vaccines are a safe and effective way to protect yourself, your family, and your community from the virus and its variants. These not-for-profit health care provider organizations remain strong advocates for taking a COVID vaccination.

Not everyone who makes the decision to get themselves vaccinated is a victim of "political manipulation". Some of us listened to our doctors and consumed as much available information as possible while weighing this decision.

AHA, AMA and ANA Release New Public Service Announcement Urging the American Public to Get Vaccinated to Defeat Covid-19 | AHA

you could not be more wrong.
I only got vaccinated because Trump told me too.
But seriously,
actually it was our infectious disease Dr that gave me a ton of information and helped walk the red women and myself through it. I respect everyone’s right to choose what they should do for themselves. Just make an informed decision

 

[sjt18]

For most people, the decision to receive the COVID vaccination is about the science, and it involves the consideration of the consensus professional opinion of health care providers. You are choosing to focus on Dr. Fauci and politicians, but the fact is, that the American Hospital Association (AHA), American Medical Association (AMA), and the American Nurses Association (ANA) released a joint public service announcement in July which stressed that COVID-19 vaccines are a safe and effective way to protect yourself, your family, and your community from the virus and its variants. These not-for-profit health care provider organizations remain strong advocates for taking a COVID vaccination.

And that's just it. They have NO means of knowing that. Most vaccines are developed and trialed over YEARS knowing that some unexpected side effects will be seen both early and long term. These vaccines were rushed to the market in a matter of months. We are just now seeing some side effects begin to manifest themselves. There are legitimate fears about the long term... specifically because they were NOT properly vetted.

Not everyone who makes the decision to get themselves vaccinated is a victim of "political manipulation". Some of us listened to our doctors and consumed as much available information as possible while weighing this decision.

And... there you are. I gave you information that really should have provoked some doubt. You chose to ignore it.

AHA, AMA and ANA Release New Public Service Announcement Urging the American Public to Get Vaccinated to Defeat Covid-19 | AHA

And they're ALL getting their narrative from the SAME SOURCE. Science is NEVER about public service announcements conveying consensus and especially with as many unknowns as there are with theses vaccines. Why are people being FORCED to take the shot and also being FORCED to sign a waiver relieving those producing, distributing, and FORCING the shots of responsibility for the side effects? That doesn't bother you? That doesn't make you question the "certainty" of this public service announcement?

How many of the people associated with that declaration do you think would do it if it made them liable for the risks assumed by those taking the shots?

 

[MAD]

LOL... yeah. It is. They're manipulating information by suppressing things like the efficacy of naturally acquired immunity and the side effects of the vaccines while exaggerating the "dangers". Good grief... Fauci et al opposed and even got the use of HCQ banned last year even KNOWING that it had been used in the US and around the world to help treat Covid. Then quietly without media fare... a report came out the week after the election acknowledging its usefulness against Covid. That wasn't manipulation of information for political purposes?

Remember last year when Fauci scoffed at reports that the virus came from gain of function research in a Wuhan lab that he had a relationship with?

When the data doesn't agree with the narrative, it is buried. A meta-data study of masks revealed two things. Mask mandates increase the use of masks and mask compliance.... and mask mandates DID NOT have an impact on Covid infection rates, spikes, hospitalizations, or deaths. You would think that they would say... "OK. We believed it would help but it is now time to move on to other things."

Just click on the links I provided to Missouri Covid data above. Would you guess based on what you're getting from the "narrative" that those who have recovered from Covid are half or less as likely to be infected from Covid as the fully vaccinated? Shouldn't that be "great news" celebrated by these "leaders" and our politicians? A lot of people have effective immunity and we DON'T have to spend billions more on vaccines with unknown side effects. Is that what YOU are hearing?

Dude, all these countries never got along or agreed on anything, all of a sudden there was a secret meeting where they all agreed to fool the world with how to deal with Covid, stop the conspiracy theory’s

 

[MAD]

And that's just it. They have NO means of knowing that. Most vaccines are developed and trialed over YEARS knowing that some unexpected side effects will be seen both early and long term. These vaccines were rushed to the market in a matter of months. We are just now seeing some side effects begin to manifest themselves. There are legitimate fears about the long term... specifically because they were NOT properly vetted.

And... there you are. I gave you information that really should have provoked some doubt. You chose to ignore it.


And they're ALL getting their narrative from the SAME SOURCE. Science is NEVER about public service announcements conveying consensus and especially with as many unknowns as there are with theses vaccines. Why are people being FORCED to take the shot and also being FORCED to sign a waiver relieving those producing, distributing, and FORCING the shots of responsibility for the side effects? That doesn't bother you? That doesn't make you question the "certainty" of this public service announcement?

How many of the people associated with that declaration do you think would do it if it made them liable for the risks assumed by those taking the shots?

Nobody is being forced.

 

[sjt18]

Nobody is being forced.

No. You can give up your livelihood and liberty... but you have a "choice", right? That's why good health care professionals across the country are walking away from their jobs... where they previously cared for Covid patients... rather than take the shot.

My son was given a choice in September. Take the shot or be written up and put out of the National Guard.... but he wasn't "forced", was he? He only had to choose between his career as a pilot and taking a shot AFTER HE GAVE THEM PROOF THAT HE HAD NATURAL IMMUNITY.... but that's not "forcing" anyone, is it?

Several cities including Washington, DC are implementing plans to require a vax ID to enter public buildings and businesses... but no one is being "forced"... are they?

 

[BowlBrother85]

And that's just it. They have NO means of knowing that. Most vaccines are developed and trialed over YEARS knowing that some unexpected side effects will be seen both early and long term. These vaccines were rushed to the market in a matter of months. We are just now seeing some side effects begin to manifest themselves. There are legitimate fears about the long term... specifically because they were NOT properly vetted.

And... there you are. I gave you information that really should have provoked some doubt. You chose to ignore it.


And they're ALL getting their narrative from the SAME SOURCE. Science is NEVER about public service announcements conveying consensus and especially with as many unknowns as there are with theses vaccines. Why are people being FORCED to take the shot and also being FORCED to sign a waiver relieving those producing, distributing, and FORCING the shots of responsibility for the side effects? That doesn't bother you? That doesn't make you question the "certainty" of this public service announcement?

How many of the people associated with that declaration do you think would do it if it made them liable for the risks assumed by those taking the shots?

These organizations obviously don't agree with your assessment.

Science isn't about public service announcements, but the advocacy contained within a public service announcement can be based on scientific research and analysis. There will be dissenting opinions concerning just about anything, but a reasonable person weighs all of the available information before making a decision, and should be capable of recognizing when there is a clear consensus among credentialed personnel.

 

[vollygirl]

Agree. Also the risk/benefit decision shifts with age. Vaccines for the young which may damage organs is makes much less sense than vaccines for the elderly who are far more likely to have severe cases or death.

But again... this isn't about the "science". It is about political manipulation. Even if you believe that Fauci and politicians have nothing but the best interest of the people in mind... they DO NOT have a right to manipulate the information they give us and steer us like cattle.

There's a thread in the politics forum.

 

[sjt18]

Dude, all these countries never got along or agreed on anything, all of a sudden there was a secret meeting where they all agreed to fool the world with how to deal with Covid, stop the conspiracy theory’s

Not talking about "all these countries" (which isn't true btw).. I am talking about things OUR supposed leaders have said that were either deceptive or mistaken and information they've used to stoke public fear... and obedience and information they've suppressed because they knew it would support resistance to what they wanted done.

That is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. Open your EYES.

 

[vollygirl]

Not talking about "all these countries" (which isn't true btw).. I am talking about things OUR supposed leaders have said that were either deceptive or mistaken and information they've used to stoke public fear... and obedience and information they've suppressed because they knew it would support resistance to what they wanted done.

That is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. Open your EYES.

You are in the wrong thread.

 

[MAD]

No. You can give up your livelihood and liberty... but you have a "choice", right? That's why good health care professionals across the country are walking away from their jobs... where they previously cared for Covid patients... rather than take the shot.

My son was given a choice in September. Take the shot or be written up and put out of the National Guard.... but he wasn't "forced", was he? He only had to choose between his career as a pilot and taking a shot AFTER HE GAVE THEM PROOF THAT HE HAD NATURAL IMMUNITY.... but that's not "forcing" anyone, is it?

Several cities including Washington, DC are implementing plans to require a vax ID to enter public buildings and businesses... but no one is being "forced"... are they?

No, it’s a very small number, most are walking away because they either make more money traveling or are sick of all the covidiots filling up the hospitals.

 

[sjt18]

These organizations obviously don't agree with your assessment.

Dude. Use your own mind. It isn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It is a matter of TIME. It takes TIME for side effects to be known.

Science isn't about public service announcements, but the advocacy contained within a public service announcement can be based on scientific research and analysis. There will be dissenting opinions concerning just about anything, but a reasonable person weighs all of the available information before making a decision, and should be capable of recognizing when there is a clear consensus among credentialed personnel.

At the beginning of Covid, there was a comprehensive study demonstrating that masks were ineffective in preventing infections in a surgical setting. Obviously those arguing against masks used that study... until one day it was just taken down. The study wasn't political or even "controversial." It was done in 2016 and was obscure except to those who argue such things... just a study that would bore most of us in a minute or less. But then... it was suppressed.

When doctors stepped out and argued for use of HCQ.. they were threatened and scorned. Most of those lining up behind these service announcements walked in lock step with the leaders. Doctors are being threatened with their jobs and practices over ivermectin though it has shown to help some people.

Maybe a handful of the people represented by those organizations have actually done ANY research or even read dissenting research. Doctors like most have to take a lot of things on faith. As a practical matter, they cannot read every report. So you are trying to claim a consensus... when most are just following the "guidelines" they've been given.

 

[sjt18]

No, it’s a very small number, most are walking away because they either make more money traveling or are sick of all the covidiots filling up the hospitals.

I know people who have done it... and they were heartbroken.

You didn't need to confess you were a covidiots. You were making that obvious.

 

[sjt18]

You are in the wrong thread.

More than likely.

 

[sjt18]

FTR, I do take Covid serious and have taken effective steps to protect my family and those I'm responsible for from infection. My wife, daughter, youngest son, and I all had Covid in January. We caught from my daughter who works in a nursing home that STRICTLY followed CDC guidelines and had NUMEROUS onsight transmissions between staff members and residents. By contrast, we have had no Covid transmission at my workplace. We never masked up. Most of my guys have not had the shot. Instead, we installed virus destroying air filtration on all of our HVAC. Seemed more reasonable to kill the virus before it reached a viral load large enough to make folks sick... than to put ineffective face decorations on.

Since January, I tested for antibodies in August. I still had them. My son took a comprehensive set of tests including antibodies and T-cells demonstrating that he had immunity. He's the only one who has had a Covid related illness... AFTER TAKING THE VACCINE. It literally made him sicker than Covid did originally.... and it was completely needless.