Does NIL Effectively Eliminate the 85 Scholarship Cap Rule

#51
#51
LSU-SIU said:
NIL is basically meaningless. What is going on is simple pay to play. If a player gets money for going to a school to play what exactly is the NCAA going to do? NOTHING.

Now, as to the topic, this is what I suggested 6+ months ago. Anyone that wants to pay players, can pay for school fees and the players could be a walk-on. This would also find away around the 25 type rules as well.
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What schools and players are the scenarios you speak of in practice?
 
#53
#53
LWSVOL said:
What schools and players are the scenarios you speak of in practice?
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Any school or player. If someone wants to pay Peter to play at Paul University, exactly what can the NCAA do about it? I'm not sure how many warning shots they'll get until someone finally gets fed up and just goes to the Grand Jury figure to have them figure it out.

The latest is the NCAA is still hoping Congress will make new federal NIL legislation, however, that only covers NIL and if its anything like what the States have been doing I am not sure how that helps in the least. They the NCAA would still most probably be in violation of the Sherman Act if they tried to enforce or regulate payments/compensation.

If you are going to commit crimes, you might as well go big like the NCAA... I guess.
 
#54
#54
LSU-SIU said:
Any school or player. If someone wants to pay Peter to play at Paul University, exactly what can the NCAA do about it? I'm not sure how many warning shots they'll get until someone finally gets fed up and just goes to the Grand Jury figure to have them figure it out.

The latest is the NCAA is still hoping Congress will make new federal NIL legislation, however, that only covers NIL and if its anything like what the States have been doing I am not sure how that helps in the least. They the NCAA would still most probably be in violation of the Sherman Act if they tried to enforce or regulate payments/compensation.

If you are going to commit crimes, you might as well go big like the NCAA... I guess.
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Understand what you are saying. Just want to know where are the practical applications of what your saying taking place? If NCAA can do nothing, there should be cases of things happening big time. Just looking for those.
 
#56
#56
We are already seeing the transfer portal get bigger every year because they aren't getting playing time. I really doubt a team is gonna be able to sign 30+ players in a cycle and be able to keep them happy.
 
#57
#57
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I don’t see it happening. For one, any player worth a Mil NIL will get it wherever they go. Why not get the free scholly on top of that?

Kid would REEEAAAALLLLY want to play for X school and help the team with an extra scholly to take such a deal.

Not to mention, there won’t be that many million dollar NIL deals for kids coming out of high school. Those will be rare and after this initial phase those will probably shake out only for upper classmen who have proven themselves.
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Sure hope your are correct!!
 
#58
#58
piratelifeforme said:
Why would anyone give a million to a player who hasnt produced anything? 5 star players bust and the return on investment would be terrible.....people with a million didnt get there by making poor decisions....
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I'm pretty certain that Brice Young became a millionaire before starting a game for Bama.

Why? Because some guys with money ARE just that crazy... or they have enough that they spend a million like you and I spend $100.

More than likely wouldn't have to be a million btw. A kid making $100K per year could go to college pretty comfortably. Start with that and promise more if they perform. They could even put performance clauses in like coaches have. Lots of people thought NIL was a great idea... it is going to get really, really messy. It could easily ruin the game from a competitive stand point.
 
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#59
#59
In all seriousness, this whole thing is going to be experimental for awhile. As a question is answered, that will lead to ten more being asked. But pandora's box has been opened. While some things might be good, others will be debated, and a few will come down to lawyers and judges arguing it. Then again, perhaps a good chunk of it has already been anticipated on how to address it. One would think groups of people are in discussions trying to get it working for the good of the athletes.
 
#61
#61
Jax_Vol said:
Well sure...two swallows carrying one coconut would each have to flap their wings at 111.8 beats/second, assuming weight and constant flight velocity are proportional and that the line holding the coconut was weightless. Seems easy enough
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Reasonable deduction if the mass, physical capabilities, and development by swallow coaches are equal in order to obtain and sustain synchronization during flight.
 
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#63
#63
I think players should have access to some of the financial benefits they generate for schools and bigwigs. I also think most young folks aren't prepared for sudden wealth, and all that comes with it. As for why, herein lies the crooks of the matter.

1. NIL rules whatever and wherever they are, count on shady people manipulating, ignoring, and otherwise circumventing any and all well-intents and purposes.

2. Guaranteed that hormone driven young men suddenly having money in sums they otherwise never would, engaging in acts of profound stupidity. The likes of which we haven't seen so widespread before. I anticipate blowing cash on show-off items like fancy and overpowered vehicles. Which itself will lead to all kinds of things like hitting pedestrians, DUI fueled collisions, letting even more irresponsible friends and girlfriends drive their vehicles and causing add-on troubles. Getting accosted and targeted by criminals, not unlike major lottery winners do now. Not to forget wrecking team chemistry and performance.

That includes running afoul of the biggest embezzler of all; the IRS. Kids will be ruined for decades to come due to ignorance and arrogance both.

3. What about such sports as gymnastics and volleyball players, especially women? Especially, again, where uniforms expose a lot of skin? I believe along with money, they will be offered modeling and similar gigs, end up being more distracted by vanity than usual. Plus exploited in other ways in pursuit of mo monee.

And this is just a smidging of the mess we have yet to see.
 
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#64
#64
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I don’t see it happening. For one, any player worth a Mil NIL will get it wherever they go. Why not get the free scholly on top of that?

Kid would REEEAAAALLLLY want to play for X school and help the team with an extra scholly to take such a deal.

Not to mention, there won’t be that many million dollar NIL deals for kids coming out of high school. Those will be rare and after this initial phase those will probably shake out only for upper classmen who have proven themselves.
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Are scholarships still renewed yearly? Meaning if you're not guaranteed a scholarship for 5 years then a 5* Bust would be without a scholarship and without a NIL at end of the year. Of course, he could probably play down to G5 or FCS. We have probably had more 5 star bust than any other school % wise.
 
#65
#65
LWSVOL said:
Understand what you are saying. Just want to know where are the practical applications of what your saying taking place? If NCAA can do nothing, there should be cases of things happening big time. Just looking for those.
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What do you mean? I'm confused, you think everyone advertises all the payments? The NCAA really hasn't done anything to anyone in years for payments, they are relying on schools to self penalties. You think the NCAA is going to go after Duke now? LOL

There isn't much they can do. Heck, most of the NIL contracts just seem like normal service contracts to me, they have players showing up to do things. LOL

The NCAA should not be in the business of regulating compensation to players in any form. You think Zion is going to disclose all his financial dealings in college?
 
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#66
#66
LSU-SIU said:
What do you mean? I'm confused, you think everyone advertises all the payments? The NCAA really hasn't done anything to anyone in years for payments, they are relying on schools to self penalties. You think the NCAA is going to go after Duke now? LOL

There isn't much they can do. Heck, most of the NIL contracts just seem like normal service contracts to me, they have players showing up to do things. LOL

The NCAA should not be in the business of regulating compensation to players in any form. You think Zion is going to disclose all his financial dealings in college?
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I don't know about anyone.

You've stated the NCAA has no power to prevent schools paying players or players getting paid. So if they have no power, there should be lots of data where it has occurred. I was just asking you to provide that information. What colleges do it with which players and how do they process it? Since NCAA can't do anything, it should be common knowledge but I'm not aware of any of the processes.

I would like for Tennessee to be doing this to the benefit of the players and school. I know a lot of people where we could get something implemented.
 
#67
#67
LWSVOL said:
I don't know about anyone.

You've stated the NCAA has no power to prevent schools paying players or players getting paid. So if they have no power, there should be lots of data where it has occurred. I was just asking you to provide that information. What colleges do it with which players and how do they process it? Since NCAA can't do anything, it should be common knowledge but I'm not aware of any of the processes.

I would like for Tennessee to be doing this to the benefit of the players and school. I know a lot of people where we could get something implemented.
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Huh. How much do I get paid? I would love for you to tell me where you got the data.

No, you don't have the data, just like you didn't have the data prior to NIL.

it should be common knowledge
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Huh, the vast majority of financial transactions are private affairs. I mean some transactions if someone does enough hunting can find out how much someone paid for a house due to register of deeds, and public entities might have to disclose certain transactions, etc.

You think there is a list sitting there where people just disclose all their transactions? Why would anyone disclose that?
 
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#68
#68
LSU-SIU said:
Huh. How much do I get paid? I would love for you to tell me where you got the data.

No, you don't have the data, just like you didn't have the data prior to NIL.
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So why are these processes so secretive? Are they keeping it from the NCAA and if so why? I'm not interested in the specifics on how much players are paid or schools are paying. Since NCAA is powerless, what are the various processes to allow not just money but vehicles, apartments, clothes, etc. Should I not be able to set up a player to get clothes whenever he / she needs them? And nothing happen? How do I make that happen??

I mean Pruitt and other coaches were just fired at Tennessee for "breaking rules". Players were "basically" sent away from UT for accepting "something". I'm trying to understand the processes to prevent that from happening again but allow benefits.
 
#69
#69
WoodsmanVol said:
I think players should have access to some of the financial benefits they generate for schools and bigwigs. I also think most young folks aren't prepared for sudden wealth, and all that comes with it. As for why, herein lies the crooks of the matter.

1. NIL rules whatever and wherever they are, count on shady people manipulating, ignoring, and otherwise circumventing any and all well-intents and purposes.

2. Guaranteed that hormone driven young men suddenly having money in sums they otherwise never would, engaging in acts of profound stupidity. The likes of which we haven't seen so widespread before. I anticipate blowing cash on show-off items like fancy and overpowered vehicles. Which itself will lead to all kinds of things like hitting pedestrians, DUI fueled collisions, letting even more irresponsible friends and girlfriends drive their vehicles and causing add-on troubles. Getting accosted and targeted by criminals, not unlike major lottery winners do now. Not to forget wrecking team chemistry and performance.

That includes running afoul of the biggest embezzler of all; the IRS. Kids will be ruined for decades to come due to ignorance and arrogance both.

3. What about such sports as gymnastics and volleyball players, especially women? Especially, again, where uniforms expose a lot of skin? I believe along with money, they will be offered modeling and similar gigs, end up being more distracted by vanity than usual. Plus exploited in other ways in pursuit of mo monee.

And this is just a smidging of the mess we have yet to see.
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#70
#70
LSU-SIU said:
The schools brought this upon themselves to a large degree. Its not about "clamoring" for it or not, its about providing people the ability to compete and earn money. College sports has been ruined by the colleges.

I'm not sure why the colleges should operate any differently than everyone else, and yes, I think the pro-sport exemptions to anti-trust should go as well.
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Without speaking to the rest of it... the athletes WERE earning "money". They got a scholarship and benefits worth well over $100K per year. In return, they signed an agreement saying they would compete as amateurs.

My sons weren't born with the ability to play SEC football. No. They joined the military and EARNED the money needed to graduate college... and were grateful for it. Yes. Football programs make billions... and the people and companies protected by my sons' service make 10's of trillions.

It is what it is at this point but, no, the colleges did not ruin it. It worked well for over 100 years before lack of appreciation for an education and pure only envy and greed led to this lawsuit.
 
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#71
#71
LWSVOL said:
So why are these processes so secretive?
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What do you mean by "secretive", do you put all your financial transactions on the side of your pickup? WTF are you talking about? LOL

LWSVOL said:
Are they keeping it from the NCAA and if so why? I'm not interested in the specifics on how much players are paid or schools are paying. Since NCAA is powerless, what are the various processes to allow not just money but vehicles, apartments, clothes, etc. Should I not be able to set up a player to get clothes whenever he / she needs them? And nothing happen? How do I make that happen??
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Processes? Its called living. LOL You setup your financial dealings like you wish, just like every other normal person does.

LWSVOL said:
I mean Pruitt and other coaches were just fired at Tennessee for "breaking rules". Players were "basically" sent away from UT for accepting "something". I'm trying to understand the processes to prevent that from happening again but allow benefits.
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Again, the NCAA is relying on the schools to self-penalize. My take is they just wanted him gone or didn't fully understand what was about to occur in the Supreme Court. The NCAA has no real power anymore, but that doesn't mean they won't try and act like it.

The gig (criminal racket) is up.

Its is very possible that Pruitt could have a case for being fired with cause even if he admitted to it... as what the schools and the ncaa are doing are in violation of anti-trust law. Of course, if school funds were used than it would require much more thought.

I have no idea why schools are disclosing "compensation" violations to the ncaa anymore or even self-imposing penalties. Beats me.
 
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#72
#72
LSU-SIU said:
What do you mean by "secretive", do you put all your financial transactions on the side of your pickup? WTF are you talking about? LOL



Processes? Its called living. LOL You setup your financial dealings like you wish, just like every other normal person does.



Again, the NCAA is relying on the schools to self-penalize. My take is they just wanted him gone or didn't fully understand what was about to occur in the Supreme Court. The NCAA has no real power anymore, but that doesn't mean they won't try and act like it.

The gig (criminal racket) is up.

Its is very possible that Pruitt could have a case for being fired with cause even if he admitted to it... as what the schools and the ncaa are doing are in violation of anti-trust law. Of course, if school funds were used than it would require much more thought.

I have no idea why schools are disclosing "compensation" violations to the ncaa anymore or even self-imposing penalties. Beats me.
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the NCAA are the SCHOOLS. The NCAA is controlled by the Presidents and Chancellors of the universities. They determine what the policies, rules and regulations to be followed by the members will be.

I realize the conglomerate called the NCAA is going to become smaller and conferences or divisions will be setup to determine their own policies, rules and regulations. The change will be smaller memberships. They will still have a constitution to follow.

As far as your last sentence, I believe that is because the NCAA is the schools themselves. The NCAA is not an independent entity that acts without guidance from the schools.
 
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#73
#73
87&91ALUM said:
I am betting that the 85 player rule stays but, the thing that is troubling is that well funded colleges will work the NIL to basically buy the best athletes. I didn't read anything about an NIL salary cap. Has anyone else? The rich get richer and the poor just stay poor. This is one of many reasons I am turning to other sports and away from all these money deals. Where the money flows, evil follows as in rigged officiating, broadcasting, playing favorites, etc. Hope I am wrong but, this train has left the station and ten years from now College athletics will be even more "all about the money" and very little about getting an education and being a contributing citizen.
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I agree with you in principle. But, it is about $$$ now. Plus, there is plenty of rigged play and officiating happening right now, rest assured. UT had a basketball point shaving scheme exposed in the late 60s! I'm sure they weren't the first, and there have been plenty since. Some high profile.
Organized crime follows money wherever it goes. And college athletics have it aplenty right now. NIL will prob be the wild wild west for some time, but I'd say the money players are already well entrenched. Being on the down low is a big key for them.
 
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#74
#74
sjt18 said:
Serious question deserves serious discussion.

I'm not sure but it seems like that would be a pretty wide open loop hole. You could soon see all 5* players signing as preferred walk ons... with million dollar NIL deals already inked.
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Why would they agree to that? They will still get scholarship money as well as million dollar NIL deals.
 
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