President Joe Biden - Kamala Harris Administration

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#9,326
allvol123 said:
You thought it was 4 of 50? More dishonesty. Try not to start a post with it.

How should he have made governors open their states. Ready to listen.
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Make them open? How about set the tone where they could stay open instead of letting Fauci rev up the fear machine.

If he had been out in front, more would have stayed open. And so if California wants to be afraid they can do it. If Cuomo wants to continue his seniorcide he can. If the south east wants to stay open they could. Trump didnt even try. Real leadership there.

Heck he got onto Kemp for staying open. Trump probably didnt care one way or the other.
 
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My take on this, Trump tried to do what he could. He isn't a a very good communicator and there was a very concerted effort by the media an other government agencies to push shutdown. He was not eloquent or trusted enough to overcome the other factors.

I don't think anyone is blaming him solely, but he is the president at that time and the blame ultimately falls in his lap.
 
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#9,331
LouderVol said:
Make them open? How about set the tone where they could stay open instead of letting Fauci rev up the fear machine.

If he had been out in front, more would have stayed open. And so if California wants to be afraid they can do it. If Cuomo wants to continue his seniorcide he can. If the south east wants to stay open they could. Trump didnt even try. Real leadership there.

Heck he got onto Kemp for staying open. Trump probably didnt care one way or the other.
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I see. So a pandemic which all of western civilization closed for, would have been different yet for Trump's messaging.

His messaging or lack thereof, was the cause of high unemployment.

I think that is a rather ludicrous point of view.
 
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evillawyer said:
Hey @NorthDallas40, Mr. Klain wanted me too pass this little love note on to you. 😘😘

Joe keeps crushing it.

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We’ve all been saying jobs are plentiful. We’ve been trying to get you lazy azz libs off your asses and the artificially inflated gubmint teat and back to working and paying taxes! Once again you ignore what’s actually going on just to misrepresent your bull **** narrative shrew! 😂🤡
 
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#9,334
#9,334
allvol123 said:
I see. So a pandemic which all of western civilization closed for, would have been different yet for Trump's messaging.

His messaging or lack thereof, was the cause of high unemployment.

I think that is a rather ludicrous point of view.
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Its ludicrous because that's not the point I made.

His messaging would have ALLOWED things to stay open. Every state may still have shut down, but then at that point it would solely be on each state and not Trump.

Instead he was too busy banging out another tweet to be bothered to communicate clearly with the people or at least his underlings to make sure they were doing their jobs to his satisfaction.
 
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#9,335
LouderVol said:
Its ludicrous because that's not the point I made.

His messaging would have ALLOWED things to stay open. Every state may still have shut down, but then at that point it would solely be on each state and not Trump.

Instead he was too busy banging out another tweet to be bothered to communicate clearly with the people or at least his underlings to make sure they were doing their jobs to his satisfaction.
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That is the point that started my posting. So it is the point I am discussing.

His messaging is irrelevant to allowing anything. The governors chose their routes. Not him. It is already on each state, the POTUS does not manage states.

I dont give a damn about tweets or anything else about him. The governors made the call to close. That is where the unemployment issues began.
 
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#9,336
allvol123 said:
That is the point that started my posting. So it is the point I am discussing.

His messaging is irrelevant to allowing anything. The governors chose their routes. Not him. It is already on each state, the POTUS does not manage states.

I dont give a damn about tweets or anything else about him. The governors made the call to close. That is where the unemployment issues began.
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They closed because the CDC was out there selling fear porn because Trump left them off the chain. Which even Obama was smart enough not to do for either Ebola or the Swine Flu.

If Trump had even somewhat been a leader you would have seen more than Georgia stay open. Florida and Texas likely would have stayed open too. Or at least not shut down to the same degree.

Trump got out of the way and let the dominos fall.

If you believe he did everything right, where was he pushing for things to stay open?
Trump Criticizes Georgia Governor for Decision to Reopen State (Published 2020)

April of 2020 Trump was ragging on Georgia for being open.
 
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#9,337
LouderVol said:
They closed because the CDC was out there selling fear porn because Trump left them off the chain. Which even Obama was smart enough not to do for either Ebola or the Swine Flu.

If Trump had even somewhat been a leader you would have seen more than Georgia stay open. Florida and Texas likely would have stayed open too. Or at least not shut down to the same degree.

Trump got out of the way and let the dominos fall.

If you believe he did everything right, where was he pushing for things to stay open?
Trump Criticizes Georgia Governor for Decision to Reopen State (Published 2020)

April of 2020 Trump was ragging on Georgia for being open.
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So your point is to roll around at the end to a governor making a decision. Hmmmm..lol.
 
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#9,338
allvol123 said:
So your point is to roll around at the end to a governor making a decision. Hmmmm..lol.
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Yeah. A decision he made INSPITE of Trump. That's been my point the entire time.

The governors screwing up doesnt excuse Trump screwing up. Especially as Trump screwed up first, as the highest ranking official in our nation, its going to have an impact on others thought processes what he says and does.

Trump was by all evidence pro-lockdown and you want to avoid that by ignoring Trump and focusing only on the governors.
 
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LouderVol said:
Yeah. A decision he made INSPITE of Trump. That's been my point the entire time.

The governors screwing up doesnt excuse Trump screwing up. Especially as Trump screwed up first, as the highest ranking official in our nation, its going to have an impact on others thought processes what he says and does.

Trump was by all evidence pro-lockdown and you want to avoid that by ignoring Trump and focusing only on the governors.
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You mean the governor figured out it was his job to run his state? Good for him, finally.

I'm not ignoring anything. He went along with the stimmy payments, which were horrible.

Governors run states and states shutting down was the unemployment trigger.
 
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#9,340
allvol123 said:
You mean the governor figured out it was his job to run his state? Good for him, finally.

I'm not ignoring anything. He went along with the stimmy payments, which were horrible.

Governors run states and states shutting down was the unemployment trigger.
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you are completely ignoring that Trump was pro lockdown.

You are completely ignoring that he let Fauci in front of a camera, which lead to everyone shutting down.

You are completely ignoring that the president has a role in the overall economy. Otherwise you need to be arguing with anyone hating on Biden for wood prices, gas, etc. Since it's ONLY the governors fault in your mind.
 
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#9,341
The states that shut down are on those govs. They got the same briefings as all of the other states. I agree that he should have kept the mic from the unelected officials. The issue with that is media and democrats would just squeel about censoring the science. He loses no matter what because our society can't be honest with themselves. Hindsight tells us Fauci is full of **** in HIS messaging. Trump conceded expertise and it turned out to be the wrong move. Govs made the ultimate decisions so they get the lionshare of the blame where it is due. Trump is inconsequential to the overall mistakes during this. Govs, media and Fauci are at the top

I am agreeing with you on the mistakes Trump made but disagreeing with how much he's to blame.
 
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utvolpj said:
Oh bs he just didn't know what to do or didn't want the responsibility. Big choices come with the big chair
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If he would have came out and said that the media and the democrats are idiots. Covid is not that big of a deal, or said that Fauci is an idiot and fired him. You would've wanted him impeached .
 
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BowlBrother85 said:
NAFTA was just rebranded. There were no significant changes made to the long existing arrangement. The First Step Act, which you are charitably calling "criminal justice reform", has been nothing more than symbolic so far, because it isn't being funded. The policies which led to record low unemployment for minorities were set in motion by the Obama administration... Trump deserves no credit for that.
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The new trade agreement is better. It's laughable that you think Obama had anything to do with any low unemployment. If criminal justice is not being funded, it's most likely due to the fact that Joe hates minorities and they are the ones that are hurt the most by his failed criminal justice policies through the years.
 
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tnmarktx said:
If he would have came out and said that the media and the democrats are idiots. Covid is not that big of a deal, or said that Fauci is an idiot and fired him. You would've wanted him impeached .
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This post is nonsense and absolutely none of that is true. I've actually posted all those things on this very board so why would I want Trump impeached for saying the same?
 
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BowlBrother85 said:
The litmus test for Republican Party office seekers is becoming less driven by traditionally conservative values concerning fiscal policy and smaller government, and more about blind loyalty to Donald Trump. That is not an insult, but rather an observation. It is incredible that there are Republican Secretaries of State who have been censured by their state legislatures, just because they performed a duty of their job as required by law, and certified Joe Biden as the winner of their respective states. Whenever blind loyalty to one person supplants ideology for party membership, that group of people is more similar to a cult, than a political party. That is definitely cult-like behavior.
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LOL
 
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#9,349
#9,349
utvolpj said:
It's not a leap - there was no consistent message or leadership coming from the WH for many months
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It was a rapidly changing environment. And we now know the fraud that was Fauci. Hell people STILL trust that clown and are all wound up over the Delta variant.
 
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LouderVol said:
you are completely ignoring that Trump was pro lockdown.

You are completely ignoring that he let Fauci in front of a camera, which lead to everyone shutting down.

You are completely ignoring that the president has a role in the overall economy. Otherwise you need to be arguing with anyone hating on Biden for wood prices, gas, etc. Since it's ONLY the governors fault in your mind.
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I'm not ignoring he has no ability to shut states down.

Point to me a policy he put into effect, then you have something.

Biden shut down Keystone and enacts policies that are pro-green and anti-fossil, that affects pricing.
 
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