What Will it Take??

[VolInNW]

All,

Yes. Another "how do we get back" thread. But this one is hopefully factually and logically based.

What I am really concerned about is the fact that by hiring Lyle, we perhaps blew the last decent chance we had to climb back to relevance. He came onboard just as the block of early-mid 90s legacies were hitting 18, and he is a heckuva salesman in the short term. As a result, we legitimately had a shot in 2016 to climb back up with the big boys. Because Lyle and his staff absolutely sucked at game management and player evaluation/development, we blew that shot with the most loaded roster we have had since the mid 2000s.

Is there another legacy group coming from the late 90s players? I honestly ask, because I don't know. And even if there are legacies reaching 18, are we SO VERY IRRELEVANT for so long that it doesn't matter this time? Dallen Hayden going to OSU really rattled me, and led indirectly to this post. Was he a program changer? Probably not. But the trend worries me a lot.

How DO we get back at this point? Mostly just dumb luck and catch lightening in a bottle? Is there a logical path to follow?? I'm getting very discouraged because I think we have blown the few opportunities we have had, and are now in a VERY likely rut of 7-5 suckitude. And while I think CJH is a very capable coach and a good man from all accounts, he does NOT strike me as a program transformation kind of personality.

Anyone see a ray of sunshine??

 

[volsknx]

Lotta sunshine pumpers finna pump this post OP!

You are correct that Butch sold the program to the legacies. He also sold "early playing time". However, when he was here, he was able to use the last remnants of our illustrious past. Now, we don't have the legacy players or the past to utilize in order to grab lightning in a bottle for top notch/cream of the crop talent at the moment. OP, the reason is that there are so many other programs that can utilize that "come here and play right away" philosophy. Therefore, relevancy is at issue.

Kiffin was able to use the program plus immediate playing time. Dooley as well to a point. The program was at a very low point but still had value and Jones used the play soon mantra as well. Our problem now is that the tradition is so far back, we just are not relevant as we were even five years ago. What was left, Pruitt completely destroyed it.

 

[YankeeVol]

Just win baby

 

[sjt18]

Coaching. UT has to find a coach that gets more out of a roster than the sum of its parts. The last 3 have gotten LESS out of the roster than the sum of its talent.

I don't know if that's Heupel. There are some reasons to think it might be. There are some reasons to think it won't be. There are a lot of unknowns and uncontrolable factors.

But at the bottom, most foundational point... you have to find a coach who can coach. I have no doubt this thread will regurgitate all of the fatal flaws of the last 3 guys and maybe Fulmer too. But Heupel is the HC now. He has a tough task in front of him. I hope he's "the guy" and we are worried about losing him in 3 years rather than firing him.

 

[UT Hill Man]

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

It will always be darkest right before the incendiary bombs go off. Oh wait wrong slogan!

In a pod cast yesterday they talked about how Tennessee will be one of the top schools to help athletes get sponsorships because of our boosters, resources and fan bases and how this might sway a few more 4*s our way. For most it won't amount to more than a few thousand dollars a year but for a select few quite a bit more.

Once the investigation wraps up, we will get our recruits, including several flips from SCAR and KY to name a few.

 

[sjt18]

It will always be darkest right before the incendiary bombs go off. Oh wait wrong slogan!

In a pod cast yesterday they talked about how Tennessee will be one of the top schools to help athletes get sponsorships because of our boosters, resources and fan bases and how this might sway a few more 4*s our way. For most it won't amount to more than a few thousand dollars a year but for a select few quite a bit more.

Once the investigation wraps up, we will get our recruits, including several flips from SCAR and KY to name a few.

How long do you think the investigation will take? Any ideas about the potential punishment?

 

[hog88]

Win the games your supposed to win and a few that you aren't.

 

[BeardedVol]

Heupel is going to have to show that he can take the players on the roster, maximize their potential by developing them properly, and win the games he should win with them. Then he's going to have to convincingly sell that ability to develop players to a few top recruits well enough to get them here, and pull an upset on the likes of Alabama/Florida/Georgia within the next 4 years, and send some kids to the NFL, to prove that he has the staff in place can accomplish what he's selling in living rooms, on a consistent basis.

If he manages to do that, then UT will recruit itself to some degree, but it won't at all until then, and in the meantime he and his entire staff are going to have to up their recruiting game for the 2022 and 2023 classes.

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

How long do you think the investigation will take? Any ideas about the potential punishment?

I think we will know something by August.

 

[JRich]

"Legacy" players are never a lock. Guys want to do their own thing, and not necessarily what their parents did. Manning went to UT and not Ole Miss.

It's really as simple as coaching quality. Every great coach in the modern era has had success with 3* rosters early in their careers. Pulling in great recruiting classes is pointless if you can't develop and coach them well, see Pruitt and Jones.

 

[butchna]

All,

Yes. Another "how do we get back" thread. But this one is hopefully factually and logically based.

What I am really concerned about is the fact that by hiring Lyle, we perhaps blew the last decent chance we had to climb back to relevance. He came onboard just as the block of early-mid 90s legacies were hitting 18, and he is a heckuva salesman in the short term. As a result, we legitimately had a shot in 2016 to climb back up with the big boys. Because Lyle and his staff absolutely sucked at game management and player evaluation/development, we blew that shot with the most loaded roster we have had since the mid 2000s.

Is there another legacy group coming from the late 90s players? I honestly ask, because I don't know. And even if there are legacies reaching 18, are we SO VERY IRRELEVANT for so long that it doesn't matter this time? Dallen Hayden going to OSU really rattled me, and led indirectly to this post. Was he a program changer? Probably not. But the trend worries me a lot.

How DO we get back at this point? Mostly just dumb luck and catch lightening in a bottle? Is there a logical path to follow?? I'm getting very discouraged because I think we have blown the few opportunities we have had, and are now in a VERY likely rut of 7-5 suckitude. And while I think CJH is a very capable coach and a good man from all accounts, he does NOT strike me as a program transformation kind of personality.

Anyone see a ray of sunshine??

There’s no such thing as LAST CHANCE in this context. You hire the right minds and let them work with all the resources that’s available in Knoxville. You have a behemoth. The U was a dead program until an old dude who failed in the pros figured out that concentrating on recruiting the local talent would give you a leg up…resources. Howard wasn’t a very boisterous personality…smoked a pipe. Jimmy Johnson took over after Schnellenberger (foolishly) jumped to the USFL with a team that never played a game. Johnson was larger than life and a shrewd con man…matched his predecessor’s one championship. Take off your emo sunglasses and you might catch a ray.

 

[VOLfrombama]

They need to grow up. Stop being a bunch of children that just happen to be on the same team and start acting like a team of men. Quitting, pouting, finger pointing, etc., should not be allowed.

Oh, and they need a player to step up and be a leader and hold people accountable when they do act like children. Someone who emulates Al Wilson.

 

[RockyTopTexas]

How do we get back... what a question for the ages

 

[VolBricks]

I think CJH can make the offense relevant again, QB is the most important position on the team and he has shown he can train them up. The question is "can he hire a DC and let him run the defense that can make the defense relevant again?"

 

[SayNoToJorts]

Need a quick resolution to the NCAA investigation. Pushing the NCAA to resolve or expedite should be #1 on Danny White's to-do list every single day. If they drag it out for a couple years it is practically a death penalty to a program like UT that was already on life support. UT recruits itself when we don't have that cloud over us

 

[volroadwarrior]

Have a good season and they will come. A good season is what each prospect believes it is. UT has the facilities, traditions and fan base to attract the best recruits. What we need are some wins to attract the best.

 

[TnVol!]

Go Volunteers!!!!!

 

[Volfan76]

All,

Yes. Another "how do we get back" thread. But this one is hopefully factually and logically based.

What I am really concerned about is the fact that by hiring Lyle, we perhaps blew the last decent chance we had to climb back to relevance. He came onboard just as the block of early-mid 90s legacies were hitting 18, and he is a heckuva salesman in the short term. As a result, we legitimately had a shot in 2016 to climb back up with the big boys. Because Lyle and his staff absolutely sucked at game management and player evaluation/development, we blew that shot with the most loaded roster we have had since the mid 2000s.

Is there another legacy group coming from the late 90s players? I honestly ask, because I don't know. And even if there are legacies reaching 18, are we SO VERY IRRELEVANT for so long that it doesn't matter this time? Dallen Hayden going to OSU really rattled me, and led indirectly to this post. Was he a program changer? Probably not. But the trend worries me a lot.

How DO we get back at this point? Mostly just dumb luck and catch lightening in a bottle? Is there a logical path to follow?? I'm getting very discouraged because I think we have blown the few opportunities we have had, and are now in a VERY likely rut of 7-5 suckitude. And while I think CJH is a very capable coach and a good man from all accounts, he does NOT strike me as a program transformation kind of personality.

Anyone see a ray of sunshine??

Gonna get a lot worse before it gets better. Gonna take a commitment to win by the administration. Right now, no such commitment exists.

 

[fossilfiction]

Best case scenario for the near future...
CJH does a great job developing and scheming this season to get to 6-6 with an exciting offense. The investigation does not hit UT overly hard on scholarship bans and pins most the blame on CJP.
That sparks a bump in offensive commits and some defensive transfers to help out immediately for 2022. He wins 8 games and one of them is the against the big three.
The recruiting is now top 10. He manages to develop the players he has more than expected and gets to 10 wins. Quality transfers, not just depth, flock to Tennessee like they have done Oklahoma. A top 5 recruiting finish.
From there it gets easier after three years of progress.

 

[overseasorange2]

Best case scenario for the near future...
CJH does a great job developing and scheming this season to get to 6-6 with an exciting offense. The investigation does not hit UT overly hard on scholarship bans and pins most the blame on CJP.
That sparks a bump in offensive commits and some defensive transfers to help out immediately for 2022. He 8 wins games and one of them is the against the big three.
The recruiting is now top 10. He manages to develop the players he has more than expected and gets to 10 wins. Quality transfers, not just depth, flock to Tennessee like they have done Oklahoma. A top 5 recruiting finish.
From there it gets easier after three years of progress.

 

[sona]

A roster laden with 4 and 5-star players who function as a team and a staff that can scheme and develop talent. Also, smarter bagmen.

 

[mickeyvol]

"Gonna take a commitment to win by the administration. Right now, no such commitment exists."

Am I missing something? I see more commitment from the current administration than I have in the last 20 years.

 

[fossilfiction]

You nailed it.

 

[Voltopia]

"But this one is hopefully factually and logically based."

lolwut. Unless people commenting work for the program, or know the actual answers as to why the UTAD either has done something or is going to do something, I don't know how this conversation can be any more "factually based" than the other fifteen million conversations about what's going on with Tennessee football. Hell, one of the founding principles of VolNation is an unwavering commitment to talking about crap we don't know the whole story about. Sure, every college football fan does it, but here it's practically a Tennessee Tradition. It's a little known fact that Bob Neyland's Eighth Maxim was "Speculate, guess, and double down, for that is the winning edge on the world wide web."