The Tennessee Takeover

#26
#26
Border Vol said:
Nobody in FBS will want the Tennessee head coaching job if Coach Heupel is fired after 2-3 seasons. Why would someone worth a damn want to coach a team with such idiotic,unrealistic and delusional fans and ruin their careers?
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What are you responding to in my post? The OP said after 5 years would you support another 5 years. My 2 to 3 years comment is after that first 5 years.
 
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#28
#28
JRich said:
If he consistently beats Florida, I'd keep him. I think consistent 10 win seasons is the goal here, however.

Bama will go down when Saban retires, and UGA will eat itself from the inside, much like we did.
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How many schools have "consistent" 10 win programs? 5 right now......maybe 6 if you count Boise.
How about consistent winning seasons with some 10+ win seasons......................like has been the case for the entire history of the program.

13 ten win seasons since 1960. 13 out of 61 = 21% (not my idea of consistency..............but I like the gumption)
 
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#32
#32
bigl3327 said:
Let's say Coach Heupel does what all previous coaches claimed they would do, and locks down the state in recruiting. Let's say the results of this after 5 seasons is consistent 8-4 or 9-3 type seasons, which allows the team to consistently finish 2nd or 3rd in the east and top 15-20 in the rankings. The offense is really good. The defense is really good. All of the losses are in close games (a touchdown or less). Multiple players are going in the draft every year. Do you put your support behind him for 5 more years, or do you clamor for a big name coach to get us to the next level?
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At that point, Heupel IS a big name coach. He'd be entrenched, the reason WHY we have recruits, success, etc.

You'd have to be dumber than a bag of hammers to screw up what's working great to take a chance on someone else

Then again ...... Tennessee.
 
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#34
#34
peaygolf said:
How many schools have "consistent" 10 win programs? 5 right now......maybe 6 if you count Boise.
How about consistent winning seasons with some 10+ win seasons......................like has been the case for the entire history of the program.

13 ten win seasons since 1960. 13 out of 61 = 21% (not my idea of consistency..............but I like the gumption)
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Yeah 10+ wins a season is crazy. Not sure how people come up with these kinds of expectations. We’ve never been a 10 win program. Very few have been. On average, we are an 7-8 win program with some big seasons sprinkled in, which is really good. If we are averaging an 8-4 season, more than likely that means we have some 10-2, 11-1 seasons sprinkled in. Saban needs to retire. It’s making other fanbases delusional
 
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#35
#35
bigl3327 said:
That's the question. If we aren't beating Georgia, Florida, or Bama in the first 5 years, but play them all extremely close with a roster loaded with instate kids. I would still consider this major progress. I also would be all in.
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If after 5 years we can't beat a UGA, UF or Bama we are nothing but a KY and that's not good enough. He has to have wins over 2 of the 3 within his first 5 seasons.
 
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#36
#36
bigl3327 said:
Let's say Coach Heupel does what all previous coaches claimed they would do, and locks down the state in recruiting. Let's say the results of this after 5 seasons is consistent 8-4 or 9-3 type seasons, which allows the team to consistently finish 2nd or 3rd in the east and top 15-20 in the rankings. The offense is really good. The defense is really good. All of the losses are in close games (a touchdown or less). Multiple players are going in the draft every year. Do you put your support behind him for 5 more years, or do you clamor for a big name coach to get us to the next level?
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How long is 2nd tier good enough for YOU?

The truth is that your scenario is unlikely. Like any other competitive "business" coaches are either rising or falling. You can't really improve precisely enough to remain "mediocre" by comparison.

FWIW, you more or less just described Butch Jones for his first 4 years.... and then we saw what happened especially in the 5th year. Again, you are either rising or falling.
 
#37
#37
Remy said:
If he's not winning the SEC East and losing 3 or 4 games a year, he's not competing, he's treading water at a less than Richt rate. Why would UT sign up for that for an additional 5 years?
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Bingo!
 
#38
#38
TMvol10 said:
Yeah 10+ wins a season is crazy. Not sure how people come up with these kinds of expectations. We’ve never been a 10 win program. Very few have been. On average, we are an 7-8 win program with some big seasons sprinkled in, which is really good. If we are averaging an 8-4 season, more than likely that means we have some 10-2, 11-1 seasons sprinkled in. Saban needs to retire. It’s making other fanbases delusional
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Right. Let's set our goal at 8 wins.... Goals have a really strong tendency of becoming ceilings.
 
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#39
#39
So, minus a lot of the i state kids and with the w/l ratio, you are talking about another Phil Fulmer era?
 
#40
#40
volsknx said:
So, minus a lot of the i state kids and with the w/l ratio, you are talking about another Phil Fulmer era?
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Which one? The one with Cutcliffe or without? With Cutcliffe he averaged 10.75 wins per season. Without Cutcliffe he averaged 7.75 not counting the partial season in '92.
 
#42
#42
peaygolf said:
How many schools have "consistent" 10 win programs? 5 right now......maybe 6 if you count Boise.
How about consistent winning seasons with some 10+ win seasons......................like has been the case for the entire history of the program.

13 ten win seasons since 1960. 13 out of 61 = 21% (not my idea of consistency..............but I like the gumption)
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There are several, definitely more than 6. Most of the top 25 teems at the end of the season win at least 10 games, with a few 9 win teams scattered in there. If you start at 2019 and go back each year, you see the same names.

Is it too much to ask that UT be as good as LSU, Wisconsin, Utah, Oregon, Florida?
 
#43
#43
If I remember correctly, Butch had a lot of dissension in the program because of how he treated them. So far at least, the players seem to be all in with the new staff. If Heupel can continue to build the trust with players and recruits, I don't see why he wouldn't be successful.
 
#44
#44
JRich said:
There are several, definitely more than 6. Most of the top 25 teems at the end of the season win at least 10 games, with a few 9 win teams scattered in there. If you start at 2019 and go back each year, you see the same names.

Is it too much to ask that UT be as good as LSU, Wisconsin, Utah, Oregon, Florida? Minnesota?
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With Wisconsin, Oregon, and Minnesota???? schedules.............yea, 9-10 wins would be attainable.
 
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#45
#45
Truth be told he needs to beat everyone not named Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, LSU or Texas A& M to start and then he has to start beating at least one of the above teams every year and be competitive with the rest by year 5 or 6.
 
#46
#46
sjt18 said:
Right. Let's set our goal at 8 wins.... Goals have a really strong tendency of becoming ceilings.
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Who is/are the "our" in your reply? If it is AD, coaches, players, boosters, et al, I think you have a point. But frankly, are any of those people who exist in a hyper competitive world going to set goals for 8 win seasons? I don't think they are. The goal for any historically good program is compete for championships. I expect our program sets their goals to compete for championships.

If the "our" are the posters here. Meh. Our goals don't effect the outcome of the season or who coaches. As far as I am concerned, let me regain my expectations to simply be competitive against our rivals BEFORE I make the leap to expect wins. Our historical record is what it is.

The first rule when you've dug a hole is stop digging. I want to see us actually stop digging ourselves deeper before I expect to be on level ground with our rivals.
 
#47
#47
peaygolf said:
With Wisconsin, Oregon, and Minnesota???? schedules.............yea, 9-10 wins would be attainable.
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Scratch Minnesota, they haven't been that good, but yeah, I think that should be the goal. I know technically "consistent" means EVERY season but, in college football, I'd say on a 10 year run, if you win 10 games in 5-6 of those seasons, you are pretty consistent.

I'm not going to get into a strength of schedule debate, but the SEC has been on a decline and is not as good top to bottom as it used to be. Some would argue that the Big 10 and the ACC are just as competitive.
 
#50
#50
McDad said:
Who is/are the "our" in your reply?
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Did you read the post I responded to or consider the context? "On average, we are an 7-8 win program with some big seasons sprinkled in, which is really good."

That is NOT "really good".

If it is AD, coaches, players, boosters, et al, I think you have a point. But frankly, are any of those people who exist in a hyper competitive world going to set goals for 8 win seasons? I don't think there are. The goal for any historically good program is compete for championships.
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No. You don't "say" that's your goal... when you call it "really good" to "average that" you build in an excuse to accept it. Fulmer WITH Cutcliffe averaged almost 11 wins per season. His LOWEST win total was 8.... before the 12th game was added. That wasn't accomplished by saying an average of 8 wins was "really good".

Without Cutcliffe WAY too many excused him for WAY too long. He averaged under 8 wins per season with most of those seasons coming after the 12th game.

Averaging 7 or 8 wins is "really good" for UK... great for Vandy. If that's the program that others think acceptable... count me out.

If the "our" are the posters here. Meh. Our goals don't effect the outcome of the season or who coaches. As far as I am concerned, let me regain my expectations to simply be competitive against our rivals BEFORE I make the leap to expect wins. Our historical record is what it is.
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Fan sentiment is and always has been far more powerful than you suggest.
 
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