Gun control debate (merged)

[Orangeslice13]

What is that bit in the 2A about “well regulated militia?” Doesn’t sound like it is geared toward the individual at all. Plus a right, as it were, applies to the masses as a protection to the collective citizenry... you know, the whole reasoning behind establishing the 2nd amendment in the first place.

Go do some research on what “a well regulated militia” meant back then.

 

[OHvol40]

I’m curious , do you belong to or have you spent a considerable amount of time in a strong union ? I’m also curious if you’ve spent time on the other side ( management positions )

Edit : I’ve been on both sides and just curious about your experiences before getting into a discussion.

I have spent time as an assistant unit director at a hospital with a strong nurses Union as well as being a staff nurse at that same hospital before that. Yes, I have experience with both. Why?

 

[LouderVol]

What is that bit in the 2A about “well regulated militia?” Doesn’t sound like it is geared toward the individual at all. Plus a right, as it were, applies to the masses as a protection to the collective citizenry... you know, the whole reasoning behind establishing the 2nd amendment in the first place.

Another fallacy you base your argument on.

Rights, even those in the bill of rights or amendments, arent granted to a collective group. They are held by individuals, whether or not they make up any sort of collective.

Again your entire argument relies on putting the cart (collective) before the horse (individual). I am guessing it's because you are wanting readers to infer some implied hierarchy.

 

[OHvol40]

Another fallacy you base your argument on.

Rights, even those in the bill of rights or amendments, arent granted to a collective group. They are held by individuals, whether or not they make up any sort of collective.

Again your entire argument relies on putting the cart (collective) before the horse (individual). I am guessing it's because you are wanting readers to infer some implied hierarchy.

To be honest I don’t have an “argument.” I made an observation that doesn’t add up logically and wanted someone who holds those beliefs to explain it to me. So far all I’ve received is defensiveness without justification of those beliefs.

 

[0nelilreb]

I have spent time as an assistant unit director at a hospital with a strong nurses Union as well as being a staff nurse at that same hospital before that. Yes, I have experience with both. Why?

Because that knife is double edged . A union is no better than the organization it’s chartered under and can be just as bad , greedy , dirty , corrupt , spiteful , detrimental to its members as the company its “ fighting against “ . I’ve sat on negotiating committees as a chief shop Stewart and listened to the lies from the company and as a supervisor for a different company that treated the employees well so they wouldn’t bring in a union . I don’t get trying to compare unions to the 2A though , one is a right , one is a choice .

 

[DancingOutlaw]

If you support the 2A you should support unions.

Democrats support unions but not 2A.

 

[OHvol40]

Because that knife is double edged . A union is no better than the organization it’s chartered under and can be just as bad , greedy , dirty , corrupt , spiteful , detrimental to its members as the company its “ fighting against “ . I’ve sat on negotiating committees as a chief shop Stewart and listened to the lies from the company and as a supervisor for a different company that treated the employees well so they wouldn’t bring in a union . I don’t get trying to compare unions to the 2A though , one is a right , one is a choice .

I explained, in detail, the similarity. They were born, and are currently maintained, to protect the citizens against tyranny.

I also said both the 2A and unions have *rightfully* fallen under scrutiny over the years. Neither the 2A nor unions have been maintained without collateral damage.

 

[C-south]

I explained, in detail, the similarity. They were born, and are currently maintained, to protect the citizens against tyranny.

I also said both the 2A and unions have *rightfully* fallen under scrutiny over the years. Neither the 2A nor unions have been maintained without collateral damage.

Nobody gives 2 s**ts about any union. The right to bear arms and unions have absolutely nothing in common.

 

[OHvol40]

Nobody gives 2 s**ts about any union. The right to bear arms and unions have absolutely nothing in common.

I suspect you probably have ancestors that would have slapped you silly for disregarding their hard work and sacrifice...

 

[LouderVol]

To be honest I don’t have an “argument.” I made an observation that doesn’t add up logically and wanted someone who holds those beliefs to explain it to me. So far all I’ve received is defensiveness without justification of those beliefs.

See some of my earlier posts. There is no link between the two ideologies. Your "observation" doesnt establish a link between the two. Your logic is flawed.

 

[LouderVol]

I explained, in detail, the similarity. They were born, and are currently maintained, to protect the citizens against tyranny.

I also said both the 2A and unions have *rightfully* fallen under scrutiny over the years. Neither the 2A nor unions have been maintained without collateral damage.

That's a similarity at a very basic level. One that doesnt imply any sort of ideological connection.

 

[hndog609]

I explained, in detail, the similarity. They were born, and are currently maintained, to protect the citizens against tyranny.

I also said both the 2A and unions have *rightfully* fallen under scrutiny over the years. Neither the 2A nor unions have been maintained without collateral damage.

The car that needs to get out of the garage before you even get to drive it around in this "discussion" is you justifying the idea of lethal force against civilian employers. Be it pitchforks, clubs or atlatls you seem to be comparing the idea of armed pushback against tyrannical government being little different than threat/use of force against civilians over...a job.

 

[C-south]

I suspect you probably have ancestors that would have slapped you silly for disregarding their hard work and sacrifice...

And it still has nothing remotely to do with the 2A.

 

[golfballs]

President Biden issues a statement on the 3rd anniversary of the Parkland shooting calling on Congress to enact legislation mandating background checks on all gun sales, a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, and to hold gun manufacturers liable for violence committed with firearms. (AP)

 

[Orangeslice13]

9th circuit has already ruled on that.

 

[OHvol40]

See some of my earlier posts. There is no link between the two ideologies. Your "observation" doesnt establish a link between the two. Your logic is flawed.

I explained the similarities, they are just conveniently ignored, I want to know why.

 

[OHvol40]

The car that needs to get out of the garage before you even get to drive it around in this "discussion" is you justifying the idea of lethal force against civilian employers. Be it pitchforks, clubs or atlatls you seem to be comparing the idea of armed pushback against tyrannical government being little different than threat/use of force against civilians over...a job.

It’s not “a job”, it freedom to pursue life, liberty, and happiness without being beholden to an entity that controls every aspect of life for a group of individuals.

 

[OHvol40]

And it still has nothing remotely to do with the 2A.

Sure, to the cognitively dissonant.

 

[C-south]

Sure, to the cognitively dissonant.

I’ve never worked for a unionized company. I own plenty of guns.

 

[OHvol40]

I’ve never worked for a unionized company. I own plenty of guns.

So what?

 

[C-south]

So what?

Talk about cognitive dissonance.

 

[hndog609]

It’s not “a job”, it freedom to pursue life, liberty, and happiness without being beholden to an entity that controls every aspect of life for a group of individuals.

Obfuscation. Are you or are you not espousing threat/use of lethal force regarding civilian employment?

 

[OHvol40]

Obfuscation. Are you or are you not espousing threat/use of lethal force regarding civilian employment?

I’m not espousing anything except the reasoning for maintaining the 2A and the reasoning for maintaining collective bargaining rights are extremely similar, but only one is supported by conservative folks.

 

[C-south]

I’m not espousing anything except the reasoning for maintaining the 2A and the reasoning for maintaining collective bargaining rights are extremely similar, but only one is supported by conservative folks.

There is no reasoning behind relating the two.

 

[hndog609]

I’m not espousing anything except the reasoning for maintaining the 2A and the reasoning for maintaining collective bargaining rights are extremely similar, but only one is supported by conservative folks.

More obfuscation. If you're "reasoning" cannot stand up and say threat/use of lethal force (with or without firearms mind you) is a viable option in seeking redress regarding civilian employers then your car is still in the garage and your entire premise is too flawed to engage in rational discussion.