Recruiting Forum Football Talk III

[Smyrna ATL Vol]

Napier beat him something like 48-7 last year. Chadwell may be great, but his resume is just way to light on big time experience.

That was his first true year as the head coach. He was interim the year before. He has built every program he has been at back up.

 

[BAJAvol]

I just want to track some planes.

 

[Smyrna ATL Vol]

When I win the Power Ball, I promise to save Tennessee football. Buyouts will be no problem and the new coaches salary will be paid for. We will get whoever we want.

 

[bignewt]

For me I've come to the realization that TN football is done, at least the way we've viewed it in the past. There are too many people in power over there that are completely uninterested in UT football and it's success. If they don't care, why should fans care? I've said for years that they've counted on UT fans to show up come hell or high water, they totally exploited fan loyalty. They've continued to trot out suspect hires under the guise of "given the circumstances, that's the best we could do". They've continued to try and fix UT football by changing out questionable head coaches with other questionable head coaches, knowing that TN fans will always support the new guy. Then after 3-4 years when it becomes clear that another failed hire was made, they plug in another guy that has about a 10% chance of making it past year 4.

Now we find ourselves in the same situation, again. Let's be honest here, Jeremy Pruitt's days here are numbered. Whether he's fired this year or next, he's done. He knows it, fulmer knows it, recruits know it, everyone that gives a dam about UT football knows it. It's just a matter of how much we let it burn before we attempt to put the fire out. My guess is they'll let it burn to the ground again before they do it. That way they can break out the old "that's the best we could do" excuse again.

The huge question is, will the fans come out in numbers, yet again for another coach that has about a 10% chance of making it past year 4? As for me, no. I'll always be a fan. I'll watch from afar. I'll cheer from my sofa for the victories. I'll cuss at the losses (and possibly throw things) but I am pretty much indifferent to it 30 min after the game. I've come to grips with the fact it will be a really long time before TN is relevant if ever.

What will it take to turn things around? We've been plugging these coaches in like spark plugs on a car engine hoping it will be the fix when the real problem is we've got a blown engine. The problems lie in the UT administration. Some don't care at all. No one is rowing in the same direction. There are power struggles that extend to major boosters. The only constant is the majority of the fans. I'm talking about the minimum donation guys and gals. The bulk of the season ticket holders. The 80% that make up the 102K on Saturdays. Can they count on those fans when they trot out another hire that even Vandy probably wouldn't hire?

This pretty much sums it up. We are a bunch of fans living in the past who have watched the slow death of something we love, wallowing in denial thinking that the right nobody head coach will catch lightning in a bottle and bring us back. The sad fact is there is no bringing this back. This is now a lower to middle tier SEC East team. There is no savior booster or champion inside the University who will go out and hire a home run. It isn't happening. Pruitt will sink down into the quicksand and after a 5-7 season next year we will make yet another move to another middling hire we all hope works out. It won't. I am now at acceptance on the grieving scale. My once enormous emotional investment is now at a trickle.

I will stay on this board because of the great people who share in our communal pain but I see the writing on the wall. It's donesies.

 

[Orange Studs]

You’ve convinced me. I’m fine with Herman if we can’t get Freeze. Who knows, maybe he does better here because of lessons he learned there. I just want relevancy

Campbell

 

[butchna]

For a football-mad state like Texas, they don't really produce them, no.

There are currently 173 players on NFL rosters from the State of Texas. 83 of them play defense, 90 play offense. As a point of comparison, there are 200 players currently on NFL rosters from Alabama, a state with one-sixth the population. 115 of them play defense. Hell, with those numbers, you could argue that the State of Texas doesn't produce football players, period, like a state of that size should.

They don’t make ATHLETES different from state to state. At some point it’s all about development. The high schools in this state spend tons of money on facilities, camps, coaching and gear. The physical talent stems from families flocking to military bases, industrial hubs and population centers. There are really TWO that remain (after mass base closings) in this large land mass state...DFW and Houston. El Paso’s in the state and has Fort Bliss but doesn’t have the environment that lends to enlistments ending and families staying. All that to say, I don’t know if your Alabama numbers are athletes from the colleges or high school talent but Bama delves into this state every year for a reason. Maybe not every bit of the talent takes a NFL roster spot but it takes up a starting spot on P5 rosters for a number of programs. So skipping the state seems a little foolhardy.

 

[rekinhavoc]

When I win the Power Ball, I promise to save Tennessee football. Buyouts will be no problem and the new coaches salary will be paid for. We will get whoever we want.

You're a good man. I would b!tch and moan from a nice warm destination.

 

[Jimmy Football]

When I win the Power Ball, I promise to save Tennessee football. Buyouts will be no problem and the new coaches salary will be paid for. We will get whoever we want.

Sure, sure. Ziti said the same thing, but once he hit it big on the bitcoin market, we never even heard from him again.

 

[letsgoUT29]

Like anyone cares, but my list:
-Freeze
-Campbell
-Rhule (may hate the NFL)
-Herman
-Sark
-Napier

I wish you were making the decision great list. I would probably switch Campbell/Freeze and Sark/Napier but love the list.

 

[jakez4ut]

Okay okay okay....

Bear with me and let’s assume Pruitt isn’t replaced.

What would your priorities to fix this team? What assistants would you move around? What seniors would you try and talk into staying? Etc...


For me, in no particular order:

• I’d look to move on from Weinke. Ty Simpson recruitment be damned. I mean, it’s hard for me to be too critical of him because JG is a bag of ****, Bailey missed the entire offseason, and Mauer was suicidal so doubt he was focusing on his craft. But as bag a ****** as JG is, he’s regressed. Shrout never has improved, etc. I’d look at Tee Martin as the natural replacement. Him or Long.
• Id move Osovet to something other than TE coach. We’ve gotten nothing from the position all year, and it was fairly damning when Jacob Warren, during his media availability, pointed out how the tight ends had to teach Joe about the position. That ain’t good. Joe is a creative offensive mind and seems like a talented recruiter. He has a position on the staff - but Im not 100% sure what it is yet.
• Niedermeyer has a background in defense, and I hate to judge him too harshly, but I’m not sure he needs to be coaching ILB’s. HT has regressed this year and neither Banks nor Crouch have improved.
• I’d tell Len’Neth Whitehead that yeah, I know you want to play RB, but his path to the field is at LB. There was a lot of talk during his recruitment that his best position was LB. With Gray, Dee, Smalls, Hodge, and the incoming freshman - we have a log jam at running back. Meanwhile, outside of HT- we have nothing proven at LB. Some players have flashed, like Joseph, but for my money, LB is our biggest question mark going forward.
• I’d thank Brandon Kennedy and most of the seniors for their service. Maybe ask Fant, Solomon, and Palmer to come back.
• I’d tell Cooper Mays to spend the entire offseason working at center. And I’d sell Cade on the idea of playing side by side with his brother if he’s willing to return.
• Id do my best to bring Tosh or Bo Davis in as DL coach.
• Id scour the earth for a transfer quarterback. Darriel Mack, formerly of UCF, would be someone I would look closely at. Dual threat QB with a few years eligibility left. Played well against LSU a few years back. I’d encourage every QB not named Harrison Bailey or Kaiden Salter to “look around” this offseason.
• Previously expressed my concern about linebackers so like above, I’d make finding a transfer linebacker or two a priority. Especially if someone has an ounce of pass rushing ability.

That’s all I have off the top of my head.

if we're going in that mobile qb/dual threat deal, i'd move osovet to QB's. let Long and Tee run the offense/WR's and i'd move Chaney to OL/TE....or go hire a good OL coach. Jay Grahm stays at RB, but i'd make sure he's taken care of.....but you could fire Weinkie, Friend and Chaney right now and it wouldn't hurt my feelings....

on defense, i'd move Ansley to DB's. agree on tosh or bo (or both) for DL/ILB. i don't have enough to go on for felton either way, so i'm fine with keeping him....and i'd find a place to put Nieds where he can still get on the road to recruit, but isn't a liability on the field. i don't know hte answer there.

and Jeremy Pruitt would run/call the defense....it's the best thing he does, so we might as well take advantage of it.

agree on the transfers for pass rusher(s) and QB....Shrout can stay or go, either way, he's not a factor. Maurer, wish him the best, but i agree, i think he's got bigger things on his mind, and being the QB here, right now, probably isn't the best medecine.

but, at the end of the day.....if it was soley up to me....i'd call Urban 1st, Bob 2nd....make them whatever offer financially i had to, and just give them complete control of the football program....if they both say no, they say no.

i don't have a plan B, i guess Freeze...but i'm not sure that's happening at all, regardless.

plan C...see above.

can't wait til Saturday!

 

[butchna]

This pretty much sums it up. We are a bunch of fans living in the past who have watched the slow death of something we love, wallowing in denial thinking that the right nobody head coach will catch lightning in a bottle and bring us back. The sad fact is there is no bringing this back. This is now a lower to middle tier SEC East team. There is no savior booster or champion inside the University who will go out and hire a home run. It isn't happening. Pruitt will sink down into the quicksand and after a 5-7 season next year we will make yet another move to another middling hire we all hope works out. It won't. I am now at acceptance on the grieving scale. My once enormous emotional investment is now at a trickle.

I will stay on this board because of the great people who share in our communal pain but I see the writing on the wall. It's donesies.

Thought emo was dead. Razor blade stocks are going to soar! Try to dodge the white F-150 when you’re diving. Somebody hook me up with the testosterone!

 

[VolInDayton]

It's really tiresome just talking about coaches who have had moderate success at irrelevant programs. We are setting ourselves up for another 4 years of mediocre and a coaching search. If we want to compete with and beat the best teams in football we need a proven winner.

Why make a change and give another guy 4 years and huge buyout. Actively search for a proven winner that wants to be here and get the money right. It sucks waiting, but this cycle we are in is not going to be broken by repeating the same thing over(Dooley) and over(Jones) and over(Pruitt) and over(whatever random names fill our hot board) is insanity.

 

[Orange Studs]

That's like the third novel written today! LOL

 

[Aesius]

I either want a proven P5 head coach or a G5 guy with no real blemishes and proven program building abilities.

We won't get a superstar P5 head coach so we will have to settle for a guy with a high floor and hope "restarting his clock" will lead to success. G5 guy needs to have experience with top P5 programs, which is why I like the Napier hire. Also why I'm iffy on Chadwell. He's an FCS/G5 guy. No experience with major programs.

 

[05_never_again]

They don’t make ATHLETES different from state to state. At some point it’s all about development. The high schools in this state spend tons of money on facilities, camps, coaching and gear. The physical talent stems from families flocking to military bases, industrial hubs and population centers. There are really TWO that remain (after mass base closings) in this large land mass state...DFW and Houston. El Paso’s in the state and has Fort Bliss but doesn’t have the environment that lends to enlistments ending and families staying. All that to say, I don’t know if your Alabama numbers are athletes from the colleges or high school talent but Bama delves into this state every year for a reason. Maybe not every bit of the talent takes a NFL roster spot but it takes up a starting spot on P5 rosters for a number of programs. So skipping the state seems a little foolhardy.

That's my point. The state doesn't really develop, or produce, as many football players as a large, football-crazed state like that should, and given the investments that the high schools make as you said. Of course Alabama, and a bunch of other out-of-state schools, delve into Texas because it's a gigantic pool of players. I've never advocated skipping the state; every school should try (and does) raid Texas. Even Ohio St has been doing it a lot lately - look at a guy like JK Dobbins and they likely are going to get that QB that decommitted from Texas.

To be honest, the State of Texas was actually much lighter on NFL players overall than I was expecting. I wasn't surprised by the relative lack of defensive players, but there were even less offensive players total than I expected. They do have a disproportionate number of QBs and WRs, which you can pretty easily see anecdotally, but there are less than you'd expect at the other positions.

My State of Alabama numbers are players who went to HS inside the state and came from Pro Football Reference. Same for Texas.

 

[SpringBokVol]

His stock was also raised by being Urban's OC at Ohio St for a couple years. Yes, they were good, but Urban always has an incredible offense.

Also, everybody has a tendency to only remember the big wins of these up and coming coaches. The opposite thing happens once they've "made it" - people tend to remember the painful losses. In that second year at Houston, people only really remember Herman's season-opening victory over Oklahoma. I think that victory cemented him getting either the Texas or LSU job, whichever one he wanted. They were #6 in the country after that win. However, he went on to lose to Navy, a bad SMU team, and Memphis that year, and finished the season unranked, but nobody really remembers that.

Way too often are "on the rise" coaches judged by one win here or one win there.

And way too often are current coaches judged by a bad loss here or a bad loss there.

A lot of us ebb and flow based on the outcome of 1 game - that is not the right way to do it.

It should be based on trajectory - what is the big picture of the program and what direction is it heading.

 

[butchna]

It's overrated. Texas is a gigantic state, which is why they produce so many players, plus high school football is uniquely popular there, more popular than other parts of the country that also like football. You used the word "mythology" to describe something I said earlier...well, there's a certain mythology about Texas HS football too - Friday Night Lights, Varsity Blues, the 25,000-seat high school stadiums, etc. It's well-known broadly in the culture how crazy they are about HS football there. It's possible for someone who doesn't know to make the same mistake about our program...Wow, they have a 100,000-seat stadium, so they must be really good, right?

Per capita, they are not at the top of the heap. Last I saw, it was actually Louisiana that produced the most relative to the size of the state. Georgia and Florida were very close behind.

Who gives a ****? You land the majority of top talent in Texas every year? You got a top program. Size of the state? Geesh!

 

[ricepatty]

It's really tiresome just talking about coaches who have had moderate success at irrelevant programs. We are setting ourselves up for another 4 years of mediocre and a coaching search. If we want to compete with and beat the best teams in football we need a proven winner.

Why make a change and give another guy 4 years and huge buyout. Actively search for a proven winner that wants to be here and get the money right. It sucks waiting, but this cycle we are in is not going to be broken by repeating the same thing over(Dooley) and over(Jones) and over(Pruitt) and over(whatever random names fill our hot board) is insanity.

I agree. We need to hire a proven head coach that will be here for a while. We can then go the Ohio state or Oklahoma route and groom a younger head coach that will take over with virtually no drop off.

 

[Johnny Majors' Ghost]

AP says he expects Pruitt to be back next year but to not underestimate the power of disgruntled $$$ men.

 

[05_never_again]

Who gives a ****? You land the majority of top talent in Texas every year? You got a top program. Size of the state? Geesh!

Which state lands a majority of the top talent in Texas every year? Is that school a top program?

The fact that Alabama, a state with one-sixth the population, has more current NFL players than Texas is pretty interesting though, don't you think?

IMO, if I was a coach and I had the option to either recruit just one big state (like Texas) or recruit a couple good-sized states (like Georgia and Florida), give me Georgia and Florida every time.

 

[butchna]

That's my point. The state doesn't really develop, or produce, as many football players as a large, football-crazed state like that should, and given the investments that the high schools make as you said. Of course Alabama, and a bunch of other out-of-state schools, delve into Texas because it's a gigantic pool of players. I've never advocated skipping the state; every school should try (and does) raid Texas. Ohio St has been doing it a lot lately too - look at a guy like JK Dobbins and they likely are going to get that QB that decommitted from Texas.

To be honest, the State of Texas was actually much lighter on NFL players overall than I was expecting. I wasn't surprised by the relative lack of defensive players, but there were even less offensive players total than I expected. They do have a disproportionate number of QBs and WRs, which you can pretty easily see anecdotally, but there are less than you'd expect at the other positions.

My State of Alabama numbers are players who went to HS inside the state and came from Pro Football Reference. Same for Texas.

If you had lead with PFF I would’ve got off at the first stop. Same reason I don’t do fantasy football...I like the real game too much. If I was into nerd math, I’d have stayed awake more during Math Bowls. Carry on. I think you won whatever the hell it is we’re talking about.

 

[05_never_again]

If you had lead with PFF I would’ve got off at the first stop. Same reason I don’t do fantasy football...I like the real game too much. If I was into nerd math, I’d have stayed awake more during Math Bowls. Carry on. I think you won whatever the hell it is we’re talking about.

Dude, Pro Football Reference (not PFF) is just where I got the state information from about players currently on NFL rosters. We aren't talking stats or fantasy.

 

[HankHill]

You’ve convinced me. I’m fine with Herman if we can’t get Freeze. Who knows, maybe he does better here because of lessons he learned there. I just want relevancy

There’s so many quality coaches out there that could win 8 games every year here. It’s really not that hard. That’s why it’s so frustrating that we’re hanging on to this mess.

 

[butchna]

Which state lands a majority of the top talent in Texas every year? Is that school a top program?

The fact that Alabama, a state with one-sixth the population, has more current NFL players than Texas is pretty interesting though, don't you think?

IMO, if I was a coach and I had the option to either recruit just one big state (like Texas) or recruit a couple good-sized states (like Georgia and Florida), give me Georgia and Florida every time.

“State”? You confused me. I don’t think I ever advocated abandoning either Georgia or Florida to concentrate on Texas. I know when the Longhorns were at their best, they didn’t pass on talent from other states. Just got their core from their own...good model. I don’t know of any decent coaches who limit themselves to your hypothetical option.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Looks like Vols hoops is going to going to play next midweek vs ut Martin

Per vq

Boooom!