Latest Coronavirus - Yikes

#83,630
#83,630
McDad said:
Those charts have 2 data points. Whether you can or cannot do simple arithmetic doesn't influence those who can.
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Let's not get caught up in the weeds here. This current wave has presented us with a real problem that goes well beyond "I'll decide for myself how much risk I'll take." Hospitalizations are skyrocketing. Deaths are increasing too. If the cases are going up 4 fold but the deaths so far are only doubling, figuring out the ratio and clamoring about that doesn't do much to alleviate the hospital bed and personnel problem we're facing in many areas. If Governors wait for the death rate to catch up to the infection rate then it'll be too late
 
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#83,631
#83,631
volinbham said:
Not saying it's not growing but in the first article:

"Lofgren said the region is seeing an unprecedented increase in hospitalizations since the beginning of October. As of today, there are more than 670 COVID-19 patients in hospitals in the area. The previous peak prior to this recent surge was 300 patients in July. “This is a whole magnitude higher,” he said. “If we do again what we did in the early part of fall - adhering to basic principles of social distancing, wearing a mask, washing hands, and not expanding your personal bubble - we can bring the spread of the virus under control.”"


Going from 300 to 670 is not an order of magnitude growth. Going to 3000 would be. Minor point but our experts should be precise and not hyperbolic given the level of distrust.
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You're arguing semantics. Maybe "an order of magnitude growth" isn't the term you'd use and I respect that but the bottom line doesn't change regardless of how you describe such an increase. Here's the problem:

Dr. Andy Thomas of The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center said Zone 2, which includes central and southeast Ohio, could be two or three weeks out from crowding out non-COVID-19 care.
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If we're 2-3 weeks out from overwhelming our heathcare system then it's a serious public health issue. If one has a heart attack you want a hospital to take him to.

As for the paragraph you copy/pasted specifically, I did not see it as hyperbolic and here's why...his conclusion was quite reasonable. He did not advocate shutdowns as a solution. He advocated personal choices as a solution. That's the kind of guy we want to get behind and support. We're not talking Gretchen Whitmer here
 
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#83,632
#83,632
NurseGoodVol said:
They are not going to stop with that narrative. Even when we rule someone out for covid we now still have to wear full ppe to enter any room with any oxygen being supplied to the pt stronger than nasal cannula. That's n95, face shield, impermeable gowns and double gloves. We are still treating them like they have covid. This is a system with around 290 ICU beds. Mostly Medicare.
This tells me either we don't trust the tests or we just like to add that ppe charge to their bill daily.
Actually, for me, I believe it's both.
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My guess is both of those things are true but they're also doing it for your protection. They can't afford to lose any more employees to C19. Furthermore all it takes is one "Karen" nurse to pipe up about the hospital not protecting their employees and they've got a mess much bigger than the cost of PPEs
 
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#83,633
#83,633
Why Not Try Melatonin, Zinc, Vit C? COVID-19 and Pascal's Wager

I find it hard to believe that 8+ months into this, a Yale doctor and professor of medicine is just now realizing it’s ok for people to try alternative, natural occurring remedies. The risk is minuscule even if there is no benefit. And any potential benefit would be quite welcome at this point.
 
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#83,634
#83,634
Volsfaninva917 said:
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Very interesting. Thanks for posting. I have a few comments

1) This is consistent with what the WHO told us about 6 mos ago when a (female) member "slipped up" and admitted as such. It took less than 24 hrs for political pressure to come down on her and the WHO quickly recanted

2) This study said the opposite of what our experts have told us as to the age of these asymptomatic cases. We've been told that most asymptomatic cases are kids whereas this study said:

The asymptomatic positive rate was the lowest in children or adolescents aged 17 and below (0.124/10,000), and the highest among the elderly aged 60 years and above (0.442/10,000) (Table 1).
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3) Here's the big one: Can we trust numbers that come out of China?If you don't believe that only 4634 people have died from C19 in China (as I don't) then how can we believe the numbers in this research?

Now let's speculate. I still don't think we can rule out that this was a virus that came from a Wuhan lab and was purposely released in order to hurt the western world. If that is true, then it'd behoove them to also release false information such as this which might cause us to let our guard down

Bottom line, I don't know what to think but I hope this is research is legit. I am curious as to what the WHO will do with it. They are in China's hip pocket. If they don't believe this research to the point of adjusting their guidelines then I'll think even they know that this report was bogus.
 
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#83,635
#83,635
Sea Ray said:
Let's not get caught up in the weeds here. This current wave has presented us with a real problem that goes well beyond "I'll decide for myself how much risk I'll take." Hospitalizations are skyrocketing. Deaths are increasing too. If the cases are going up 4 fold but the deaths so far are only doubling, figuring out the ratio and clamoring about that doesn't do much to alleviate the hospital bed and personnel problem we're facing in many areas. If Governors wait for the death rate to catch up to the infection rate then it'll be too late
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You continue to dance between being wrong about discussions in the thread and then acting like what we discuss has any impact at all on things going on in the real world.
My wife works in healthcare. I'm acutely aware of what is going on at the hospitals. I am also aware that this is a virus that will work its way through our society just like every other virus has done until there are mitigations in place that are permanent such as a vaccine.
 
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#83,636
#83,636
kiddiedoc said:
Let's not forget the lives lost to starvation, delay in diagnoses, suicide, ...
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Kiddie doc, got a question for you. I'd like to know your thoughts on the below. Keep in mind, I know it's not feasible in a place like America but let's pretend for a minute.

A good friend of mine is a doc, and he's a super nerd. He's the type that reads case studies for entertainment.
He said one thing that could work is a true, hard lockdown for a short period of time. Say, hospitals, police, EMTs and pretty much nobody else comes to work. Grocery stores stay open but only offer curbside service, etc.

He claims that without hosts to transfer to the virus would likely starve and die in about 3 weeks. He claims the government could pay everyone a stipend for this 3 week period and we'd have saved trillions of dollars to this point instead of the multi-month death by a thousand cuts to our society/economy.

Again, I know the scenario is a fantasy but just pretend for a moment it's possible. What are your thoughts on if this would truly work?
 
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#83,637
#83,637
McDad said:
You continue to dance between being wrong about discussions in the thread and then acting like what we discuss has any impact at all on things going on in the real world.
My wife works in healthcare. I'm acutely aware of what is going on at the hospitals. I am also aware that this is a virus that will work its way through our society just like every other virus has done until there are mitigations in place that are permanent such as a vaccine.
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I agree with your last sentence. The problem is whether in so doing, the virus overwhelms our healthcare system. That's the point you're dancing around
 
#83,639
#83,639
Sea Ray said:
I agree with your last sentence. The problem is whether in so doing, the virus overwhelms our healthcare system. That's the point you're dancing around
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I'm literally not, though. You didn't understand fully the term "rate" in another post. I offered clarity. The math involved to calculate the rate and the understanding it hopefully provided stands alone. In no objective way, could someone read the explanation and surmise I am cavalier about the demand on our healthcare resources.
I applaud the rate. It is good news fewer people succumb to the infection relative to the number infected. I also acknowledge the virus will spread despite the fear mongering. That's what viruses do. And because that's what viruses do, it is great news fewer people are dying. Lower death rate is also a testament to the adaptive process of improvement care givers are applying to those in need of intervention.

I simply ask you read carefully what I am offering. Without bias and without reading into my post.
 
#83,640
#83,640
allvol123 said:
Or because they understand how useless it is.
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Any purpose it may serve is nullified by the way they’re used. People constantly pulling and grabbing on them then touching everything or wearing it to just cover their mouth. I’m sure people are sterilizing them every time they take it off too. Even the teachers at school pull it off every time they call for a kid. I guess if you have a hacking cough it’s good to wear it when you go out.
 
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#83,641
#83,641
allvol123 said:
Or because they understand how useless it is.
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That is the defense people use, the excuse people use, because they are afraid to admit the truth about themselves. They do not care if they make other people sick. If they did care, they would take the responsable precautions which medical authorities are asking everyone to take, instead of behaving defiantly with total selfishness.
 
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#83,642
#83,642
Vol Main said:
That is the defense people use, the excuse people use, because they are afraid to admit the truth about themselves. They do not care if they make other people sick. If they did care, they would take the responsable precautions which medical authorities are asking everyone to take, instead of behaving defiantly with total selfishness.
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If you don’t want to be exposed to a healthy person not wearing a mask then stay in the bomb shelter.
 
#83,643
#83,643
MurphyVol said:
Kiddie doc, got a question for you. I'd like to know your thoughts on the below. Keep in mind, I know it's not feasible in a place like America but let's pretend for a minute.

A good friend of mine is a doc, and he's a super nerd. He's the type that reads case studies for entertainment.
He said one thing that could work is a true, hard lockdown for a short period of time. Say, hospitals, police, EMTs and pretty much nobody else comes to work. Grocery stores stay open but only offer curbside service, etc.

He claims that without hosts to transfer to the virus would likely starve and die in about 3 weeks. He claims the government could pay everyone a stipend for this 3 week period and we'd have saved trillions of dollars to this point instead of the multi-month death by a thousand cuts to our society/economy.

Again, I know the scenario is a fantasy but just pretend for a moment it's possible. What are your thoughts on if this would truly work?
Click to expand...
I am not a doctor but this is stupid. You can’t lock a virus down out of existence. How many police, doctors, EMT’s would be working while asymptomatic? It would smolder until we opened things back up and it would spread again.
 
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#83,644
#83,644
C-south said:
If you don’t want to be exposed to a healthy person not wearing a mask then stay in the bomb shelter.
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Can you please say something that is not stupid. You know that all of the people walking around without masks are not healthy. If they were, the numbers of people with the disease would not be going up, up, up. You are just being defensive, with the attitude that you are a good person, therefore you cannot have covid and infect other people with it. That dog don't hunt.
 
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#83,645
#83,645
Vol Main said:
Can you please say something that is not stupid. You know that all of the people walking around without masks are not healthy. If they were, the numbers of people with the disease would not be going up, up, up. You are just being defensive, with the attitude that you are a good person therefore you do not infect people with a deadly disease. That dog don't hunt.
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That’s your opinion. If you think a piece of cloth can filter a virus then we can apply the word “stupid” appropriately.
 
#83,646
#83,646
volfanhill said:
I am not a doctor but this is stupid. You can’t lock a virus down out of existence. How many police, doctors, EMT’s would be working while asymptomatic? It would smolder until we opened things back up and it would spread again.
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Maybe it is, but I know kiddie will know much more than us put together. So you think that a small number of asymptomatic people would be a high risk of spread?
 
#83,648
#83,648
MurphyVol said:
Maybe it is, bit I know kiddie will know much more than us put together. So you think that a small number of asymptomatic people would be a high risk of spread?
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Do you have any idea how many cops, EMT’s, nurses, doctors, and firemen there are in this country? Then you have the whole issue of everyone locks down. Thousands of people will be locked down, who are also asymptomatic, and will spread it to family who may also be asymptomatic and contagious when the lock down is over in just 3 weeks. You can’t lock down a virus out of existence. It will always be there waiting.
 
#83,649
#83,649
volfanhill said:
Do you have any idea how many cops, EMT’s, nurses, doctors, and firemen there are in this country? Then you have the whole issue of everyone locks down. Thousands of people will be locked down, who are also asymptomatic, and will spread it to family who may also be asymptomatic and contagious when the lock down is over in just 3 weeks. You can’t lock down a virus out of existence. It will always be there waiting.
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I didn't realize asymptomatic spread was such a high risk
 
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