2020 Presidential Race

#85,201
#85,201
Orangeslice13 said:
so it doesn’t appear to be rigged to almost half the country? Ok

This is similar to doing away with rules that protect everyone when it suits you. With no thoughts for the unintended consequences.

Example.
Patriot act.
Democrats complain that Bush better not try to pass on simple majority and do away with filibuster because that would be soooo bad. They pass it normally and it prevents an even more tyrannical bill.
ACA. Same Dems then pass the ACA by simple majority. I guess they forgot how bad that was. They also didn’t think how it would affect things long term. I’ve lost count of how many times that got shoved down their throats.
Now we have serious Election Day problems that will have long term implications and need to be fixed and the people on the winning side think “it’s fine”. It’s not fine and will lead to a much bigger clusterfugg next time if some reforms are not put in place.
Everyone should be more concerned about the republic.
Click to expand...

I think everyone is on board for finding and fixing REAL problems.

The stuff the Trump team is throwing out is being laughed out of court. They aren’t even arguing fraud in court because they can’t lie to judges.

Right now Trump is really trying sow mistrust in the system so he can possibly pressure state legislatures into overturning the votes and award him the electors. THAT is far more dangerous.

———————————————————
FTR, ACA was not passed by simple majority. It was along party lines but it was 60 votes in the Senate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RockyTop85
#85,202
#85,202
titansvolsfaninga said:
Although I didn't vote for him in 2018 because of all the clouds surrounding Brian Kemp, when we lived in the John's Creek area, we heard nothing but good things about him. I guess it was a case of 1 suffering because of the many. There are good politicians on both sides and $hitty politicians on both sides. That all gets lost in the partisan aspect of everything.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
#85,204
#85,204
burntorangeVOLffle said:
I think everyone is on board for finding and fixing REAL problems.

The stuff the Trump team is throwing out is being laughed out of court. They aren’t even arguing fraud in court because they can’t lie to judges.

Right now Trump is really trying sow mistrust in the system so he can possibly pressure state legislatures into overturning the votes and award him the electors. THAT is far more dangerous.

———————————————————
FTR, ACA was not passed by simple majority. It was along party lines but it was 60 votes in the Senate.
Click to expand...
I don’t give a crap about trump.
He’s a moron and appears to be surrounded by them.
Blaming trump for the election mess is disingenuous at best.
Trump doesn’t have to sow mistrust. Anyone watching can see it. It’s been a giant dumpster fire.
But it’s fine....I’m sure it won’t encourage more of this banana republic garbage next time.

Or we can put some simple reforms in place to correct the potential problem
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64 and volinbham
#85,205
#85,205
Orangeslice13 said:
I don’t give a crap about trump.
He’s a moron and appears to be surrounded by them.
Blaming trump for the election mess is disingenuous at best.
Trump doesn’t have to sow mistrust. Anyone watching can see it. It’s been a giant dumpster fire.
But it’s fine....I’m sure it won’t encourage more of this banana republic garbage next time.

Or we can put some simple reforms in place to correct the potential problem
Click to expand...

Yep

Admitting the need for simple reforms somehow gets conflated with supporting Trump. It's nuts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LouderVol, AM64, NorthDallas40 and 1 other person
#85,206
#85,206
There's some impressive work being done involving the internet usage by Dominion during/after the election. I'm following this closely as it may be pertinent to some of the evidence presented if these cases make it to court.
 
#85,208
#85,208
Orangeslice13 said:
I don’t give a crap about trump.
He’s a moron and appears to be surrounded by them.
Blaming trump for the election mess is disingenuous at best.
Trump doesn’t have to sow mistrust. Anyone watching can see it. It’s been a giant dumpster fire.
But it’s fine....I’m sure it won’t encourage more of this banana republic garbage next time.

Or we can put some simple reforms in place to correct the potential problem
Click to expand...

Again... The Democrats TRIED multiple bills that McConnell killed. He wouldn’t even bring it to the floor to debate or offer his own alternatives.

And yes. What is going on right now is 100% on Trump and his team spreading misinformation to create doubt. He did the same thing when he lost the Iowa Caucus in 2016. He said before the 2016 election it was rigged. He said before this election it was rigged.... He even once accused the Emmys of being rigged because his show didn’t win one.

See the pattern?
 
  • Like
Reactions: zeppelin128, MarcoVol, ohhbother and 4 others
#85,209
#85,209
Orangeslice13 said:
I don’t give a crap about trump.
He’s a moron and appears to be surrounded by them.
Blaming trump for the election mess is disingenuous at best.
Trump doesn’t have to sow mistrust. Anyone watching can see it. It’s been a giant dumpster fire.
But it’s fine....I’m sure it won’t encourage more of this banana republic garbage next time.

Or we can put some simple reforms in place to correct the potential problem
Click to expand...
I agree..... I voted for trump and like his policies much better than Bidens.... Trump lost and I am ready for him to go away now..... I do feel this election was a mess and they need to fix these issues so we don’t lose faith in the election process.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AM64, Orangeslice13 and lostsheep
#85,210
#85,210
volinbham said:
Yep

Admitting the need for simple reforms somehow gets conflated with supporting Trump. It's nuts.
Click to expand...
Lol. No.

He is relying on made up claims to support the need for the vague idea of “reforms” and people are pointing out that the claims are made up.

Furthermore, everybody who has responded to him has said they’re open to a discussion about election reform.

If you want to have a debate about reforms, why doesn’t one of you propose a reform and explain what problem it will address.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rifleman
#85,211
#85,211
burntorangeVOLffle said:
Again... The Democrats TRIED multiple bills that McConnell killed. He wouldn’t even bring it to the floor to debate or offer his own alternatives.

And yes. What is going on right now is 100% on Trump and his team spreading misinformation to create doubt. He did the same thing when he lost the Iowa Caucus in 2016. He said before the 2016 election it was rigged. He said before this election it was rigged.... He even once accused the Emmys of being rigged because his show didn’t win one.

See the pattern?
Click to expand...
All politicians are idiots and they all try the same nonsense.... the bills being put forth by democrats wore horrible and full of their pet projects..... the republicans as usual offered nothing in return..... as for the election.... we do need reform bc it was a mess.
 
#85,212
#85,212
volinbham said:
Yep

Admitting the need for simple reforms somehow gets conflated with supporting Trump. It's nuts.
Click to expand...

What reforms are being suggested? I’m open.

All I see is baseless accusations of fraud and a refusal to admit they were baseless when they get kicked out of court.

The Dominion story is so convoluted it’s like a modern version of a Dan Brown novel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rifleman
#85,216
#85,216
I’m open to a discussion about increased transparency in our elections. I’m open to harsher penalties for election fraud. I’m open to a more robust system for detecting fraud. I’m open to other proposed improvements right up to the point at which it makes it more difficult for people to vote legally.

I’m happy to have a conversation about that with anybody who wants it. My suggestion is to wait and then start a new thread about it, because:

A. It seems premature when the next election is 2 years away, the transition for this election has not begun, the President of the United States is trying to remain in power after apparently losing this election, and we’re still in the process of verifying or disproving his wild allegations of what problems there actually were with this election.

B. It’s somewhat confusing when people are throwing out the president’s false examples of “fraud” to justify nebulous election reforms.

Hopefully this will clear up that my statements - that the president is wrong to attempt to stay in power and lie about the election - are not opposition to a discussion about election reform in the near future.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rifleman and BenGrimm
#85,218
#85,218
RockyTop85 said:
I’m open to a discussion about increased transparency in our elections. I’m open to harsher penalties for election fraud. I’m open to a more robust system for detecting fraud. I’m open to other proposed improvements right up to the point at which it makes it more difficult for people to vote legally.

I’m happy to have a conversation about that with anybody who wants it. My suggestion is to wait and then start a new thread about it, because:

A. It seems premature when the next election is 2 years away, the transition for this election has not begun, the President of the United States is trying to remain in power after apparently losing this election, and we’re still in the process of verifying or disproving his wild allegations of what problems there actually were with this election.

B. It’s somewhat confusing when people are throwing out the president’s false examples of “fraud” to justify nebulous election reforms.

Hopefully this will clear up that my statements - that the president is wrong to attempt to stay in power and lie about the election - are not opposition to a discussion about election reform in the near future.
Click to expand...

If those are going to be your ground rules, then what about the the false narratives that have been spread for the last 4 years about Russian interference? Seems like both sides, at the moment, have dubious claims of outside interference.

I already stated my "fix" last night. The right/GOP would need to give up ground on blocking felons (or ex-felons that have served their time) from voting, and leftists/Democrats need to stop protesting the idea of simply bringing a valid picture ID or other valid ID to vote.

Also, a thorough 14th Amendment conversation needs to be had regarding citizenship and how we handle that (which will pizz off liberals). because we cannot survive with immigrants moving in and voting in our elections without them going through the proper channels and having some skin in the game.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Orange_Vol1321 and volinbham
#85,219
#85,219
Rasputin_Vol said:
If those are going to be your ground rules, then what about the the false narratives that have been spread for the last 4 years about Russian interference? Seems like both sides, at the moment, have dubious claims of outside interference.

I already stated my "fix" last night. The right/GOP would need to give up ground on blocking felons (or ex-felons that have served their time) from voting, and leftists/Democrats need to stop protesting the idea of simply bringing a valid picture ID or other valid ID to vote.

Also, a thorough 14th Amendment conversation needs to be had regarding citizenship and how we handle that (which will pizz off liberals). because we cannot survive with immigrants moving in and voting in our elections without them going through the proper channels and having some skin in the game.
Click to expand...

I'll just suggest reading the (bipartisan) Senate report on Russian election interference.

Now, compare that to any complaint about fraud in this election, which has achieved any level of credence with Trump's appointed judges, or otherwise.
 
#85,220
#85,220
Stew Cook said:
I'll just suggest reading the (bipartisan) Senate report on Russian election interference.

Now, compare that to any complaint about fraud in this election, which has achieved any level of credence with Trump's appointed judges, or otherwise.
Click to expand...
You may have a point.

How long did it take the Senate to investigate and issue their report?

Just sayin'.
 
#85,221
#85,221
37L1 said:
You may have a point.

How long did it take the Senate to investigate and issue their report?

Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

Honestly I'm surprised it saw the light of day.

It does include some unprecedented commentary, much like the Barr report, but it does in fact drill down to the core of it.
 
#85,223
#85,223
Rasputin_Vol said:
If those are going to be your ground rules, then what about the the false narratives that have been spread for the last 4 years about Russian interference? Seems like both sides, at the moment, have dubious claims of outside interference.

I already stated my "fix" last night. The right/GOP would need to give up ground on blocking felons (or ex-felons that have served their time) from voting, and leftists/Democrats need to stop protesting the idea of simply bringing a valid picture ID or other valid ID to vote.

Also, a thorough 14th Amendment conversation needs to be had regarding citizenship and how we handle that (which will pizz off liberals). because we cannot survive with immigrants moving in and voting in our elections without them going through the proper channels and having some skin in the game.
Click to expand...
The idea that the Russians changed votes through hacking has been generally well debunked and that seems to have been accepted by almost all people. Maybe I’m missing some sizable contingent of believers, because I’m not one of them.

The allegation that Russia instituted a propaganda campaign that sought to influence the outcome has been pretty convincingly established, although that’s not accepted by some, I don’t think there are too many people left who believe that this assistance delegitimized the election. Same caveat applies.

Also, in 2016, the candidate conceded the day after the election and the transition began. In 2020, his administration has refused to initiate a transition and the candidate is personally calling ministerial officials and is presently meeting with legislators who will determine whether or not to honor the results of the election.

The only real similarity I see is the initial meltdown of the respective side’s supporters, and we haven’t really moved out of that phase for Trump. So, I we’ll see how the post-meltdown goes after the inauguration.

How would voter IDs and/or restoration of felon voting rights improve the losing side’s confidence in the election?
 
#85,225
#85,225
burntorangeVOLffle said:
Again... The Democrats TRIED multiple bills that McConnell killed. He wouldn’t even bring it to the floor to debate or offer his own alternatives.

And yes. What is going on right now is 100% on Trump and his team spreading misinformation to create doubt. He did the same thing when he lost the Iowa Caucus in 2016. He said before the 2016 election it was rigged. He said before this election it was rigged.... He even once accused the Emmys of being rigged because his show didn’t win one.

See the pattern?
Click to expand...
Yes except they didn’t. The bill was crap but you knew that already.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64 and NorthDallas40
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top